Ukraine mega thread
 

That escalated quickly. Putin couldn't wait for the Olympics to be over and what does it exactly mean there is going to be costs from our President? Eastern Europe loves them some war.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

For those of us who haven't been following could someone explain the situation in a few sentences?

Crimea is a region in Ukraine that hosts the Russian fleet and has a large Russian speaking and Russian leaning population. It also is a large economic engine for Ukraine as a whole. Ukraine replaced a Russian leaning prime minister and there is a serious secession movement and possible civil war. Russia today approved sending troops into Crimea and Pres Obama said there will be "costs" if Russia did.

Another background is that Ukraine agreed to give up their nuclear defense only when the US and Europe agreed to ensure their sovereignty.

[IMG]http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-content/photos/000/759/cache/75991_990x742-cb1391027635.jpg [/IMG]

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And Ukraine has called for a general troop mobilization. The question in my mind is will the US put a naval vessel in the area as a sign of support, or are we going to cede eastern Europe's fate back to Russia. One may push to some level of military response, the other leads down a path of appeasement.

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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

What CRedskinsRule said.

Expect appeasement.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Putin has punked Obama at every turn since he has been back.

If you don't pull your troops out we won't send minions to a low level G8 talk.

That will scare Putin!

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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

So what's driving this conflict? Ethnic Ukraine vs. Russian? Natural gas? The strategic importance of the Crimea?

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[URL="http://euobserver.com/tickers/123321"]Lithuania invokes Nato treaty on Ukraine

Today @ 17:16

By EUOBSERVER

Lithuania's FM Linkevicius has said Russia's decision to deploy forces in Ukraine means "Nato, art. 4 becomes valid," referring to article 4 of the Nato treaty. The article says Nato members must meet for consultations if "the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened."[/URL]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1061038]If you don't pull your troops out we won't send minions to a low level G8 talk.

That will scare Putin!

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Weak stuff.

Putin move was probably the boldest military action since the Afghanistan invasion for Russia. They are simply not gonna turn around now

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

The un and European union better send in peacekeepers now because those Russian trooper will eat up any type of protestors. It's gonna get ugly

Interesting and well written article on this. [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2014/03/01/5-things-you-should-know-about-putins-incursion-into-crimea/[/url]
Comments about Putin at the end are thought provoking.

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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

The original issue started when the Ukrainian President refused a deal to join the EU in order to stay loyal to Russia. As you can see from previously posted maps, there's a pretty big divide in the country where allegiances lie.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1060983]For those of us who haven't been following could someone explain the situation in a few sentences?[/quote]


Why haven't you?



I've been meaning to start this thread a bit ago when the protesting started to turn for the worst, but I had my doubts anybody would care. I am now vindicated with the above....lol

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/02/us-ukraine-crisis-usa-kerry-idUSBREA210DG20140302]Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine | Reuters[/url]


[quote]"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation."[/quote]




:laughing2:laughing-:rofl:


How could that douche bag even say that with a straight face?

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1061112][url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/02/us-ukraine-crisis-usa-kerry-idUSBREA210DG20140302]Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine | Reuters[/url]







:laughing2:laughing-:rofl:


How could that douche bag even say that with a straight face?[/QUOTE]

Does anyone feel like the US has handled this well?

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No. I think Chico summed it up pretty well.

I wish the Ukrainians well. I hope significant, practical economic sanctions are imposed and that Putin chokes on this move.

Not one American soldier should need to shed blood for this. If the Europeans want peace and security in their backyard, let them send their sons to secure it.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1061116]I wish the Ukrainians well. I hope significant, practical economic sanctions are imposed and that Putin chokes on this move.

Not one American soldier should need to shed blood for this. If the Europeans want peace and security in their backyard, let them send their sons to secure it.[/QUOTE]

What if NATO sends peacekeepers? Are you saying the US should not support NATO or keep its obligations under both NATO and other international agreements?

If NATO responds we have to participate as required by the treaty.

It's a tough. My objection is more with the choices that put us into this Hobbesian choice.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061120]If NATO responds we have to participate as required by the treaty.

It's a tough. My objection is more with the choices that put us into this Hobbesian choice.[/quote]NATO expansion? Too harsh or too lenient policy with Russia?

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1061116]I wish the Ukrainians well. I hope significant, practical economic sanctions are imposed and that Putin chokes on this move.

Not one American soldier should need to shed blood for this. If the Europeans want peace and security in their backyard, let them send their sons to secure it.[/quote]

This is my stance also.

And to any thought that mentions UN peacekeepers....LOL

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

There is really nothing we can do except stay on the phone with the Russians, but the European Union is slow to act and coordinate any type of response with the UN its laughable. They probably should sent peacekeepers in when the Russian massed troops on the border and said it "was training exercises".

Does anybody remember the call leaked 2-3 weeks ago between the pentagon and our ambassador to the Ukraine? The Russians were really behind the scenes during the Olympics gearing up for this.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1061112][url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/02/us-ukraine-crisis-usa-kerry-idUSBREA210DG20140302]Kerry condemns Russia's 'incredible act of aggression' in Ukraine | Reuters[/url]







:laughing2:laughing-:rofl:


How could that douche bag even say that with a straight face?[/quote]


Kerry...anyone going to trust him now?


[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kerry-blasts-romney-as-inept-and-extreme-on-foreign-policy/]Kerry blasts Romney as inept and extreme on foreign policy - CBS News[/url]

[YT]6VCeyqzwbuY[/YT]

[url=http://twitchy.com/2014/02/28/flashback-candidate-mitt-romney-ridiculed-for-cold-war-thinking/]Flashback: Candidate Mitt Romney ridiculed for ‘Cold War thinking’ | Twitchy[/url]







The whole world sees this President and sadly the United States as WEAK now, so the dictators and terrorists of the world are taking chances and making moves they would not normally make with a typical, strong United States President, foreign policy and military.

Putin is trying to re-assemble the USSR and this President is not going to stop him, or even care.


[YT]XsFR8DbSRQE[/YT]

[url=http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-skips-national-security-team-meeting-russia-ukraine_783659.html]Obama Skips National Security Team Meeting on Russia, Ukraine | The Weekly Standard[/url]

Nothing new...

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-obama-alone-this-president-does-not-need-intel-briefers/2012/09/13/c11e1a52-fda5-11e1-b153-218509a954e1_story.html]Marc Thiessen: Obama alone: This president does not need intel briefers - The Washington Post[/url]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-bogus-defense-of-obamas-intelligence-briefing-record/2012/09/25/f5ae10de-071d-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_story.html]A bogus defense of Obama’s intelligence briefing record - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Chico23231;1061161]There is really nothing we can do except stay on the phone with the Russians, but the European Union is slow to act and coordinate any type of response with the UN its laughable. They probably should sent peacekeepers in when the Russian massed troops on the border and said it "was training exercises".

Does anybody remember the call leaked 2-3 weeks ago between the pentagon and our ambassador to the Ukraine? The Russians were really behind the scenes during the Olympics gearing up for this.[/quote]



...staying on the phone after skipping intelligence briefings...great plan.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

Russia giving an ultimatum to Ukraine troops in crimea till tomorrow morning or face a storming of their bases. Very aggressive by Putin, pretty much an asshole

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26413953]BBC News - LIVE: Ukraine crisis: Grip tightens[/url]


Shit is about to get real.


[quote] 15:58:

The press office for the Ukraine defence ministry in Crimea confirms to the BBC that an ultimatum from Russia's Black Sea Fleet has been delivered. The Russian naval forces are said to have given Ukraine's forces in the region until 05:00 local time (03:00 GMT) to surrender or else face an all-out assault.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1061204]Russia giving an ultimatum to Ukraine troops in crimea till tomorrow morning or face a storming of their bases. Very aggressive by Putin, pretty much an asshole[/QUOTE]

Very in the face move, remember Kerry is going to Ukraine tomorrow. And at the same time he is talking economic moves Putin's fleet is going to massacre Ukrainian soldiers.

Obviously that's an extreme version of events, but still if Putin wants to intimidate eastern Europe (which does) and the former Soviet satellites, attacking Ukrainian soldiers while the US and allies blather about skipping a G8 meeting is absolutely the right move.

And I doubt Putin is bluffing.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1061194]The whole world sees this President and sadly the United States as WEAK now, so the dictators and terrorists of the world are taking chances and making moves they would not normally make with a typical, strong United States President, foreign policy and military.

Putin is trying to re-assemble the USSR and this President is not going to stop him, or even care.
[/quote]

Exactly what dictators/terrorists are making moves that wouldn't be made with any other President? You mean like Gaddafi? Oh wait...he's dead.

Sounds like something stupid that Glenn Beck would say. Do you actually believe this dribble? Seriously? The only people that see the US as weak are moronic Tea Tards/Republidiots that continue their constant hatred over the black man. What's sad is I think Obama is a terrible President, but I simply can't get down with some of the garbage slung by Tea Tards.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1061210]Very in the face move, remember Kerry is going to Ukraine tomorrow. And at the same time he is talking economic moves Putin's fleet is going to massacre Ukrainian soldiers.

Obviously that's an extreme version of events, but still if Putin wants to intimidate eastern Europe (which does) and the former Soviet satellites, attacking Ukrainian soldiers while the US and allies blather about skipping a G8 meeting is absolutely the right move.

And I doubt Putin is bluffing.[/quote]Wonder if this will drive the rest of Eastern Europe towards NATO?

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1061213]Wonder if this will drive the rest of Eastern Europe towards NATO?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://estonianworld.com/opinion/estonian-mep-tunne-kelam-putins-aggression-ukraine-reminds-us-hitlers-destruction-czechoslovakia/[/url]

A good read by an Estonian member of parliament.(I may have his title wrong)

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

In the end, the US doesn't really give a shit about Ukraine. No oil resources. Notice how they jumped and hauled ass when Saddam invaded Kuwait, but have ignored other advances from other military. Make no mistake about it, resources matter and it dictates our foreign policy unfortunately.

I'm all for the US to support Ukraine if they want/need the help. No country should be invaded by another. This means supplying them with the weaponry and even using defenses without sacrificing our soldiers. (cruise missiles/drone/patriot missiles/etc)

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1061211]Exactly what dictators/terrorists are making moves that wouldn't be made with any other President? You mean like Gaddafi? Oh wait...he's dead.

Sounds like something stupid that Glenn Beck would say. Do you actually believe this dribble? Seriously? The only people that see the US as weak are moronic Tea Tards/Republidiots that continue their constant hatred over the black man. What's sad is I think Obama is a terrible President, but I simply can't get down with some of the garbage slung by Tea Tards.[/QUOTE]
I tend to see things the same as you on a lot of topics, but people like Putin prey on weak politicos. He always has, and if he is acting like this he absolutely believes that the US is a paper tiger. Not supporting Bush as a president but from Putin's ex-kgb view he would not be doing this if he thought that the president was a strong hawk.

This absolutely reeks of a bully seeing how far he can go, and thinking there is no limit.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1061217]In the end, the US doesn't really give a shit about Ukraine. No oil resources. Notice how they jumped and hauled ass when Saddam invaded Kuwait, but have ignored other advances from other military. Make no mistake about it, resources matter and it dictates our foreign policy unfortunately.

I'm all for the US to support Ukraine if they want/need the help. No country should be invaded by another. This means supplying them with the weaponry and even using defenses without sacrificing our soldiers. [B](cruise missiles/drone/patriot missiles/etc)[/B][/QUOTE]
The administration should quickly offer defensive tools to Ukraine.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1061218]I tend to see things the same as you on a lot of topics, but people like Putin prey on weak politicos. He always has, and if he is acting like this he absolutely believes that the US is a paper tiger. Not supporting Bush as a president but from Putin's ex-kgb view he would not be doing this if he thought that the president was a strong hawk.

This absolutely reeks of a bully seeing how far he can go, and thinking there is no limit.[/quote]

Bush wouldn't be doing anything different. You think they are going to risk WWIII for Ukraine? Do you see GB or France coming to the table supporting Ukraine? Nobody gives a fuck because there is no value there to be had by stopping it. Had Ukraine been full of rich oil fields, I can assure you US presence would be there right now. I don't think this has anything to do with weak politics from the US. Just a opportunity for Putin to capture Crimea during political instability of Ukraine. He knows nobody is going to risk war over it. He's calling the bluff.


Putin would be wiped off the map if he had to face NATO. His force mainly consists of old ass technology from the cold war.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

No freakin way do we give the Ukraine any weapons.
That would change the game entirely.
The cold war will start again immediately if we do that and it may well get warm.

Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1061218]I tend to see things the same as you on a lot of topics, but people like Putin prey on weak politicos. He always has, and if he is acting like this he absolutely believes that the US is a paper tiger. Not supporting Bush as a president but from Putin's ex-kgb view he would not be doing this if he thought that the president was a strong hawk.

This absolutely reeks of a bully seeing how far he can go, [B]and thinking there is no limit[/B].[/quote]

Bingo...except it's far more than bullying, he has a plan to put SOVIET Russia back at the top and he feels the best way to do that is to repair the broken USSR.




Some people knew it was coming...ha! (our resident Libs will love this)

[url=http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/02/28/Flashback-Palin-Mocked-in-2008-for-Warning-Putin-May-Invade-Ukraine-if-Obama-Elected-President]Palin Mocked in 2008 for Warning Putin May Invade Ukraine if Obama Elected[/url]

Hello, U.N.? Anyone doing anything?

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Re: Hey there's about to be a war in Ukraine.
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1061236]Hello, U.N.? Anyone doing anything?

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Did they do anything in Georgia in 2008?