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Mattyk 04-04-2004 10:47 AM

Kiper says it's likely Skins will trade down
 
Per ESPN Insider, which I don't have. Can someone fill us in with the details?

joecrisp 04-04-2004 11:13 AM

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Per ESPN Insider, which I don't have. Can someone fill us in with the details?[/QUOTE]
[i]From Kiper's Mailbag, March 24th:[/i]

Q: Which teams do you see possibly trading up into the top 10 picks?

KIPER: We'll have to wait and see what happens with the top picks before trying to judge which teams might move up. There is speculation that the Arizona Cardinals will ride Josh McCown and are no longer in the market for a quarterback, meaning they could be in the market for a WR and allow Miami-Ohio QB Ben Roethlisberger to drop down the draft order.

Most teams in the top 10 don't need quarterbacks, so a QB-hungry team like the Pittsburgh Steelers could have Roethlisberger fall into its lap at No. 11. [b]It is very possible, though, that the Washington Redskins will look to move down from No. 5 in order to get some additional picks, so that is the spot to watch right now.[/b] With several big-name prospects yet to work out draft strategies are still taking shape, so we'll just have to wait and see.

joecrisp 04-04-2004 11:48 AM

Here's Kiper's revised first-round projection from April 2nd:

[url="http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=1771098"]http://proxy.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=1771098[/url]

[QUOTE] By Mel Kiper Jr.
Special to ESPN Insider
MOCK DRAFT: Kiper's revised first-round projection | April 2

Things have changed up and down my first-round projection, from the top five all the way to No. 32. Some teams still look to be focused on a particular position or player, but most of the picks have shifted slightly since my last mock draft. Wide receivers fill two of the first three slots as well as the final three first-round positions, while there are 18 underclassmen among my projections for the first 32 picks.

And let's not forget that trades could significantly alter the look of the first round. Trade activity will no doubt change the board before April 24, and it will be interesting to see how team needs could affect when certain players come off the board. (underclassmen denoted with an asterisk*)

1. San Diego ChargersEli Manning, QB, Ole Miss
Trade rumors are swirling and the Chargers have plenty of needs, but Manning seems to be the logical choice as it appears San Diego is not convinced Drew Brees can be its QB of the future with his height limitations and questionable arm strength.

2. Oakland Raiders: Roy Williams, WR, Texas
Williams is a complete player who had an extremely productive career, an his individual workout has put him on equal footing with with the big to WRs, Larry Fitzgerald and Mike Williams. Roy's athleticism and maturity make him a guy who is the best choice at one of many need positions.

3. Arizona Cardinals: *Larry Fitzgerald, WR, Pittsburgh
Showed in his individual workout that he has the speed to go with his outstanding hands and body control. With the Cardinals apparently sold on Josh McCown as their QB, look for them to try and get McCown some help.

4. New York Giants: Robert Gallery, OT, Iowa
Gallery will step in and be an immediate starter, a textbook left tackle who will give QB Kerry Collins some much-needed security. Has the size, athleticism and mean streak necessary to become a force in the trenches.

[b]5. Washington Redskins: *Sean Taylor, S, Miami[/b]
[b]The best defensive player in the 2004 draft, Taylor would take care of a big need for the Redskins. Washington has a limited amount of picks, though, so it is possible the 'Skins will trade down and address needs at DT or TE later in the draft.[/b]

6. Detroit Lions: *Kellen Winslow, TE, Miami
The Lions had one of the worst passing games in the NFL last season, and Winslow would give them a dynamic threat who could stretch the middle of the field or flank out wide alongside Tai Streets and Charles Rogers.

7. Cleveland Browns: *DeAngelo Hall, CB, Virginia Tech
Showed 4.3 speed at his workout, which gives him not only tremendous recovery speed but impact potential as a punt returner.

8. Atlanta Falcons: Will Smith, DE, Ohio State
May have inched slightly ahead of Kenechi Udeze as the top DE on the board and would be a great addition for a team that managed only 21 sacks in 2003.

9. Jacksonville Jaguars: *Kenechi Udeze, DE, USC
Played both DT and DE in college, and at 280 pounds with good athleticism Udeze could be a force off the edge. Jacksonville had just 24 sacks last season and Udeze could help remedy that problem.

10. Houston Texans: Dunta Robinson, CB, South Carolina
Robinson might have the best cover skills in the draft, and with his nice combine workout capping a solid career he would be an excellent hole-filler for a team that needs secondary help.

11. Pittsburgh Steelers: *Ben Roethlisberger, QB, Miami-Ohio
Roethlisberger's grade is not falling, but teams in the top 10 will likely feel they can fill a bigger need with a player just as good. The Steelers are in desperate need of a QB and Roethlisberger has all the physical skills to be that guy.

12. New York Jets: *Mike Williams, WR, USC
Speed is a question and we're still waiting on accurate computer numbers on Williams, but with his size and strength he would give QB Chad Pennington a big target who can go up and get the ball.

13. Buffalo Bills: Philip Rivers, QB, N.C. State
With Roethlisberger falling down the board the Bills have a chance to get their QB of the future in Rivers. He has the skills to step in and challenge immediately, but a year or two behind would allow Rivers some time to acclimate to the NFL.

14. Chicago Bears: *Vince Wilfork, DT, Miami
Has done everything right since the end of the college season. Wilfork had his weight down to 323 at the combine and has exceptional athletic ability for a player his size. With his potential to be a dominator along the defensive front he is better than any DT on the roster right now.

15. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Lee Evans, WR, Wisconsin
Evans finished last season strong and had a great combine workout, showing that he has overcome a knee injury and is back to his old form. He's not on the level of the top three WRs in the draft, but his speed separates him from the rest of the second-tier wideouts. A good fit for a team that needs a deep threat.

16. San Francisco 49ers: *Reggie Williams, WR, Washington
The Niners need a big WR after the loss of Terrell Owens and Tai Streets, and Williams has the size to gain a matchup advantage over even the biggest NFL cornerbacks.

17. Cincinnati Bengals: *Tommie Harris, DT, Oklahoma
The Bengals gave up more than 138 rushing yards per game last season. Harris would give them a solid inside presence on the front seven with his quickness off the ball and ability to get into opposing backfields.

18. New Orleans Saints: *Chris Gamble, CB, Ohio State
Was a full-time college corner for just one season and is still raw in terms of cover skills, but he had an excellent bowl game against Kansas State and had the athletic ability to get by until he is coached up. This could be the year the Saints finally get the CB they need so badly.

19. Minnesota Vikings: D.J. Williams, OLB, Miami
The Vikings got little outside pressure on the passer last season, and while Williams is still learning the position he has the size and speed to get to QB and also fill in elsewhere.

20. Miami Dolphins: *Shawn Andrews, OT, Arkansas
A dominating run blocker who is the prototype right tackle, Andrews is also light on his feet. He has the potential to destroy defenses and would be a big help for RB Ricky Williams.

21. New England Patriots (from Baltimore): *Steven Jackson, RB, Oregon State
Jackson has a higher grade than No. 21, but with the exception of Detroit at No. 6 there are really no teams above new England with enough of a need to take a running back before the 21st pick. The sixth pick is too high for Jackson, though, and the Patriots would do well to scoop him up should he fall into their lap.

22. Dallas Cowboys: *Kevin Jones, RB, Virginia Tech
Did not run well at his pro day workout but was one of the most productive backs in the nation in 2003. Jones has tremendous athletic ability and is a good blocker who can catch the ball out of the backfield.

23. Seattle Seahawks: Jonathan Vilma, LB, Miami
Does not have great size but was one of the elite defensive players in college last season. Vilma is a hit-lift-drive tackler and one of the most instinctive linebackers you'll see.

24. Denver Broncos: Ben Troupe, TE, Florida
The Broncos would get a nice replacement for Shannon Sharpe if they take Troupe off the board. Troupe has good hands and the athleticism to make yards after the catch. Could be a major factor at an impact position in Denver.

25. Green Bay: *Matt Ware, DB, UCLA
Ware can play both CB and S and would make a lot of sense for a team needing secondary help. He would bring some much-needed athleticism and flexibility to the defensive backfield.

26. St. Louis Rams: Jason Babin, DE, Western Michigan
A fast-riser who had terrific workout numbers and is one of the best, most productive players ever to come out of the Mid-America Conference. A nice fit for a team that lost Grant Wistrom in free agency.

27. Tennessee Titans: *Donnell Washington, DT, Clemson
He showed flashes of domination at Clemson but was an up-and-down player for the Tigers. Washington did have a phenomenal combine, though, and could be a good roll of the dice for a team that could lose players like Robaire Smith to free agency.

28. Philadelphia Eagles: Shawnte Spencer, CB, Pittsburgh
The Eagles need a big corner after the loss of Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor, and Spencer goes 6-1. He created a buzz at Pittsburgh's pro day workout -- overshadowing even Larry Fitzgerald -- and had a terrific job against teams like Miami and Virginia Tech during the Big East season.

29. Indianapolis Colts: *Sean Jones, S, Georgia
Had a heck of a year and amassed over 100 tackles for the Bulldogs in 2003. Solid in all facets of the game, Jones also has great ball skills in addition to his willingness to step up and support the run.

30. Kansas City Chiefs: *Michael Clayton, WR, LSU
The Chiefs could not stop anyone last season and sorely need to shore up their defense, but they would be getting a tough, physically gifted wideout in Clayton and at this point in the first round they would likely go with the best available player at one of their need positions. Clayton does not have great speed but makes up for it in toughness.

31. Carolina Panthers: Michael Jenkins, WR, Ohio State
Has had nice workouts and put together a solid performance in the Fiesta Bowl. Besides the fact that Jenkins is the school's all-time leading receiver he was a co-captain for the Buckeyes and an unselfish player who did whatever it took to win.

32. New England Patriots: Rashaun Woods, WR, Oklahoma State
Steady, consistent, productive and polished. Has all the necessary skills to give QB Tom Brady another outside weapon.
[/QUOTE]

Beemnseven 04-04-2004 11:51 AM

As much as I like Sean Taylor, a part of me still looks at the defensive line as a liability. I honestly don't believe we are that much better there. The upgrades (if you can call them that) of Daniels and Griffin won't solve the issue. We still lack a speed rusher, and we need at least one more new defensive tackle in case Noble doesn't pan out.

If we can grab a couple of picks in the first round, or second, then logic and history tells us that Sean Taylor isn't as much of a priority as the D-line.

AnonEmouse 04-04-2004 12:06 PM

OK, whilst I see the logic in trading down, I'd point out that opposition TE's killed us last year. We don't have a safety to scare people and give QB's trouble picking who to throw to. Not to mention run stopping ability.

If Gardner is trade bait, as well as Trotter, there could be teams like the Raiders looking to get more value from their picks, so be willing to trade 2nd and 3rd rounders for established players. I'd look for us to trade up and trade players at that, not down.

joecrisp 04-04-2004 12:14 PM

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]As much as I like Sean Taylor, a part of me still looks at the defensive line as a liability. I honestly don't believe we are that much better there. The upgrades (if you can call them that) of Daniels and Griffin won't solve the issue. We still lack a speed rusher, and we need at least one more new defensive tackle in case Noble doesn't pan out.

If we can grab a couple of picks in the first round, or second, then logic and history tells us that Sean Taylor isn't as much of a priority as the D-line.[/QUOTE]
I definitely agree with you, Beems. This defense desperately needs a speed rusher (more so than another d-tackle, in my opinion), to free up Arrington and Washington, and allow Gregg Williams to use his linebackers more flexibly, instead of relying upon them to generate the pass rush. Moving Arrington to the weakside spot I think will make a huge difference, but relying so heavily upon the linebackers as pass rushers is going to create holes in the defense that the better quarterbacks will exploit. The better offensive coordinators will take advantage of how the Redskins will have to compensate for their weak defensive line push.

Adding a solid speed rusher like Kenechi Udeze would quite possibly change all of that, and might make this defense more dynamic than even a Sean Taylor could (gasp!). Of course, Taylor would be used as a blitzer pretty frequently, as well, so he provides a lot of versatility. But I just feel there is no substitute for a d-line that can effectively rush the passer without a lot of help from the linebackers and safeties.

My ideal draft would have the Redskins working some trades (possibly using a combination of Trotter, Gardner, Canidate or Moore, and/or future picks), and somehow acquiring the right combination of picks to draft both Taylor and a solid pass rusher like Udeze. That would really take some draft day magic, though!

Spearhead 04-04-2004 02:35 PM

I like Udeze and I like the idea of trading down and addressing the d-line, but Wilfork seems like a potential superstar DT w/ the right coaching staff (and diet).

The closer the draft gets, the better he looks. What do you guys think? Am I just buying into the hype? he was impressive with Miami and Kyper now has him as the #1 DT over Harris in his mock draft.
Personally I'd love to see a trade that would get us Wilfork and a 2nd rounder for the #5.

BrudLee 04-04-2004 02:49 PM

[QUOTE=Spearhead]I like Udeze and I like the idea of trading down and addressing the d-line, but Wilfork seems like a potential superstar DT w/ the right coaching staff (and diet).

The closer the draft gets, the better he looks. What do you guys think? Am I just buying into the hype? he was impressive with Miami and Kyper now has him as the #1 DT over Harris in his mock draft.
Personally I'd love to see a trade that would get us Wilfork and a 2nd rounder for the #5.[/QUOTE]

My concern with Wilfork, or any player who has a history of conditioning issues, is that if you can't keep your weight down while eating on an NCAA per diem, a multi-million dollar signing bonus isn't going to make you switch to salads.

Put it another way - if you don't have the willpower to show up at the combine in shape, how can a team expect you to take your conditioning seriously? Wilfork apparently shed a lot of weight before the combine, which is good, but I'd definitely want to check up on him before I drafted him, with his history.

SKINSnCANES 04-04-2004 03:17 PM

His weight was never a concern at the college level, he lost the weight to play at an NFL level. Hes very quick for his size and always pushes lineman. Hes made plays simply by heaving the lineman into the QB. He lost the weight to show that he can do weight managment to step his game up another level.

SKINSnCANES 04-04-2004 03:18 PM

If the SKins draft Taylor though they are getting another pass rusher. The D-Line might not create a lot of pressure next year but Williams is smart and will use them to create lines for the LB's and Safetys. Williams plays a lot of man coverage to allow more blitzers, which is why it would also be more crucial to have a top notch safety to help out

Defensewins 04-04-2004 03:19 PM

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]As much as I like Sean Taylor, a part of me still looks at the defensive line as a liability. I honestly don't believe we are that much better there. The upgrades (if you can call them that) of Daniels and Griffin won't solve the issue. We still lack a speed rusher, and we need at least one more new defensive tackle in case Noble doesn't pan out.

If we can grab a couple of picks in the first round, or second, then logic and history tells us that Sean Taylor isn't as much of a priority as the D-line.[/QUOTE]

When you can get a blue chip, top 5 pick caliber talent, you take it.
Look and learn from our recent draft history...would you rather have a blue-chip, can't miss, high pick player like Lavar Arrington, Champ Bailey or Chris Samuels(or Sean Taylor); or do you want to move down (in the 1st round) and take a chance on a lesser player like Rod Gardner or Patrick Ramsey (or lesser talent d-lineman)?
I agree with you that our D-line is still in need of a player or two. My main problem with trading down for a D-lineman is there is not a single, sure-thing, can't miss defensive lineman in this draft. Otherwise there would be one projected in the top 10.
On the other hand safety Sean Taylor is a sure thing (safe pick). It would be a big gamble to pass up Sean Taylor for a defensive lineman that might not be able to earn a starting position.

Off topic-I know the Ramsey fans are going to scream that Ramsey is the next Bret Farve, pro-bowl, hall of famer...but in reality he is not yet there.

SmootSmack 04-04-2004 03:36 PM

I think I'm going to have to agree with Defensewins here. I mean if they can make some sort of package of players and maybe future draft picks to add a late first rounder to get a d-lineman that's fine. But I think it would be a mistake to pass on a playmaker like Taylor. I'd like to hold onto that no. 5 pick and grab Taylor

Does anyone know of any rumored post June 1 cuts we could go after?

SKINSnCANES 04-04-2004 03:38 PM

we could go after Trotter to ass depth to our lb core, lol

arrington_QBkiller 04-04-2004 05:28 PM

we gotta take taylor, he looks like the real deal . . . perhaps we could package some players and steal a low 1st round or high 2nd pick to get some kind of DL??


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