ESPN rates the TE's
By Len Pasquarelli
Here is how ESPN.com rates the top eight tight end prospects in the draft:
[img]http://espn.starwave.com/media/nfl/2003/1204/photo/g_winslow_st.jpg[/img][font=verdana, arial, geneva][size=1][color=#666666][b]Miami TE Kellen Winslow could be a top-5 pick overall.[/b][/color][/size][/font]<LI>[b][url="http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft04/tracker/player?id=7949"][color=#00009b]Kellen Winslow[/color][/url][/b] (Miami)
[b]Vital statistics:[/b] 6-feet-3 7/8, 251 pounds, 4.62 in the 40, and 24 "reps" on the bench press.
[b]Numbers game:[/b] Former backup to current [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyg"][color=#00009b]New York Giants[/color][/url] star Jeremy Shockey, won the John Mackey Award as nation's top tight end in 2003. Played in 38 games and had 119 catches for 1,365 yards and nine touchdowns. Ranks fifth all-time among Hurricanes receivers and had most catches ever by a tight end in school history.
[b]Upside:[/b] Polished receiver who runs sharp routes, knows how to find the void in the zone, and has enough speed to get deep up the seam. Reads secondary rotations very well and is decisive in adjusting to coverages. The kind of receiver who gets natural separation from linebackers and safeties and who has enough size and quickness to create mismatches in coverage. Terrific all-around athlete, will snatch the ball out in front of him and can add yards after the catch. Can be "flexed" or used in the slot. Very competitive, likes to think of himself as a warrior.
[b]Downside:[/b] As demonstrated in 2003, will allow his emotions to get the better of him, and his nasty streak sometimes turns ugly. A little bit too much of a "me-first" player. Not a very good blocker, especially in-line, takes the lazy way out and tries to cut defenders. More accomplished blocker at the second level than at point of attack. Frame is relatively thin and could use more bulk.
[b]The Dish:[/b] Despite flashes of ego, his father's heavy-handed manner in interviewing possible representatives, and his choice of Carl and Kevin Poston as his agents, still a sure top 10 choice and could go in the top five. Will be a special player if he gets into camp on time and gets his emotions under control. Blocking deficiencies could mean he has to play H-back in some offenses.
[url="http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft04/tracker/player?id=7951"][b][color=#00009b]Ben Watson[/color][/b][/url] (Georgia)
[b]Vital statistics:[/b] 6-feet-3½, 258 pounds, 4.53 in the 40, and 34 "reps" on the bench press.
[b]Numbers game:[/b] Began career at Duke, then transferred to Georgia following '99 season. For the Bulldogs, played in 37 games, starting 26 of them. Counting his one season at Duke, totaled 73 catches for 945 yards and seven touchdowns.
[b]Upside:[/b] Nice frame and flashes good combination of size and speed. Impressive frame and might be able to get a little bigger. Rare quickness, gets in and out of routes crisply and understands where the holes are in a secondary. Explosive coming off the ball, is starting to use his hands well to elude the initial jam, knows how to push off to create separation. Fluid runner. Will go into traffic, attacks the ball aggressively, likes contact after catch. Super character player, very smart, and scored a 41 on the Wonderlic test. Devoted to doing community work.
[b]Downside:[/b] Just doesn't play with much passion and, when you see him on tape, looks like he is just coasting through some plays. Still has some growing up to do and needs to develop a mean streak. A spotty blocker, one who moves his feet well, but slides off blocks and doesn't knock defenders away from the point of attack. Tends to get high when blocking and is more a "seal" blocker than a physical one.
[b]The Dish:[/b] Has made strides and his best football is still ahead of him. Competitive and will work hard. No worse than a high second-round pick.
read the entire article here [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft04/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1778943"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft04/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1778943[/url]
how popular is the use of a h-back in an offensive scheme? do u think he mentioned that he'd have to play h-back in some offenses because of the loud rumours of how much Gibbs likes what he's seen about Winslow?
Ben Watson is faster and much stronger than Winslow. We should forget Windslow and trade into the second round and get Watson if we really need a TE.
[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]how popular is the use of a h-back in an offensive scheme? do u think he mentioned that he'd have to play h-back in some offenses because of the loud rumours of how much Gibbs likes what he's seen about Winslow?[/QUOTE]
The "H-back" is used to some extent in several offenses throughout the league. Minnesota in particular has had a lot of success using Jimmy Kleinsasser in that role.
Norv Turner has always been an avid H-back user, harking back to his days with Dallas-- where Jay Novacek and Daryl Johnston were frequently used in that role-- and continuing with his tenure in Washington, where he had a lot of success with guys like Jamie Asher and Stephen Alexander. Recently, rumors have surfaced that Turner would like to draft Winslow as his ultimate weapon at the H-back spot in Oakland, though Turner already has two capable H-backs in Doug Jolley and Teyo Johnson.
Frank Wycheck, who started his career in Washington, eventually developed into the prototypical H-back in Tennessee. As a lead blocker, he figured heavily into the success of Eddie George's career, and made a name for himself as one of the elite receiving H-backs/Tight ends in the league.
The H-back is certainly not exclusively a feature of the Joe Gibbs offense, but Gibbs brought the position into prominence, so any time a talented H-back type of player is a available, Washington will always be the first place people will assume that player will wind up.
As far as Winslow goes, his skillset meshes almost seamlessly with what Joe Gibbs likes to do with his H-backs--at least in terms of the passing game-- and that's why Winslow has become one of the two primary candidates to be drafted by Washington with the #5 pick. Winslow was one of several draft candidates brought in for visits to Redskins Park over the past week, so obviously the Skins are looking at him. But there are several knocks against Winslow that would make him a poor fit in Washington, including his alleged "me-first" attitude, his perceived deficiency as a lead blocker, and his signing with agents Carl and Kevin Poston.
It isn't a given at all that Winslow is the Redskins' most favored target, or even Joe Gibbs' most favored draft target. There is increasing sentiment that the Skins will either draft Sean Taylor at #5, or trade down to acquire more picks, where they could still add excellent H-back/TEs like Ben Troupe or Ben Watson, in addition to a talented defensive player.
Very well said Joe Crisp. Windslow its def. a baller, but H-back is still a postion where you can address in the later rounds and still find someone who can contribute admirably. I think Windlow is more ideally fit for a west coast offense where he'll basically just be a reciever 90% of the time. I truelly belive our pick has to address the defense. Can you imagine the offense with widslow. It would be almost to many weapons to satisfy. You'll have portis, coles, gradner and then widslow who are all gonna want the ball. I think as it is right now are offense has all the tools to be domanant. Even if there is a hole at H-back. That can be filled next year, and the our offense will have no holes. We need to fix our D with the 5th pick.
thanks for clearing that up for me joe. I am completely torn on what should be done with our 1st round pick whether it be draft taylor, winslow, or trade down possibly with NE to get d-line help, hopefully jake grove with the 32nd pick(not gonna let that go), and a te like watson in the second round. with any of those 3 scenarios I'd be happy cuz I team would be stronger in spots where added strength is needed.
There is nothing wrong with a little fire. With the ho-hum play exibited by the skins in the past few years maybe it's time to have an emotional guy around. Winslow is young and being around professionals will help him control his emotions a little better.
Thanks for the explanation Joe Crisp.
[QUOTE=redwagonskins]There is nothing wrong with a little fire. With the ho-hum play exibited by the skins in the past few years maybe it's time to have an emotional guy around. Winslow is young and being around professionals will help him control his emotions a little better.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between fire and attitude problem, which is said to be winslow's prob. he has turned off a lot of nfl scout's with his me attitude, only his emmense talent has kept him in the top 10, his attitude does not fit in with what Gibb's is trying to build, and that's a team player, I think the best case scenerio is to draft taylor and see what we can get for gardner trotter and some pick's from the 2005 draft, there are a lot of quality TE's/ H-back's in this draft including one that is bigger stronger and faster than Winslow and has the attitude, and charactor that gibb's absolutly love's, and that's ben watson, who will probably be available early in the second rd., but it doesn't stop there, there are other TE's who could fill that position for us more than addiquitly, I think we should be a little more realistic and if you add it up winslow isn't our guy, he's not a great blocker his chractor is questionable and Gibb's doesn't throw to the TE/H-back that often, with the talent that's avail. I would be a little surprised if we took winslow at this point with the #5 pick.
When I hear Ben Watson I don't exactly tremble like I do with Winslow. This kid has an attitude (JUST LIKE EVERY PLAYER FROM MIAMI!) because he knows he can play. He is the real deal for a TE. He blocks, he catches, he outruns or goes through his defenders. He's amazing. He's someone defenses really have to think about when it comes to covering him. D coordinators will need to keep him covered with either a very physical safety, a big CB or a LB. He will get the type of mismatches Gonzolaz from KC gets.
I like both of them, and I am all for Sean Taylor over Winslow, but I think Winslow is easily the top TE in this draft.
[QUOTE=Daseal]When I hear Ben Watson I don't exactly tremble like I do with Winslow. This kid has an attitude (JUST LIKE EVERY PLAYER FROM MIAMI!) because he knows he can play. He is the real deal for a TE. He blocks, he catches, he outruns or goes through his defenders. He's amazing. He's someone defenses really have to think about when it comes to covering him. D coordinators will need to keep him covered with either a very physical safety, a big CB or a LB. He will get the type of mismatches Gonzolaz from KC gets.
I like both of them, and I am all for Sean Taylor over Winslow, but I think Winslow is easily the top TE in this draft.[/QUOTE]
Talent wise know doubt, but we can't have a pro bowler at every position, and I think it would be much easier to fill the need at TE in this draft than saftey, If we took winslow who would we put in our secondary? but if we take taylor I can give you 4 or 5 guy's who could very easily be big contributer's at TE this year.
If theres all this talk about us getting the second pick without trading the fifth, why not get Winslow and Taylor. Granted, getting that pick might hinder on giving up Samuels, which wouldnt be a good move becuase Portis and whichever QB are goign to need protection. Either way you will never find me putting money down on a bet guessing who the Skins pick or what trades they make. This years draft should prove to be very exciting. Last years draft was pretty exciting as well, The first ten picks went by in no time, it seemed like everyone knew what was going to happen, except the Vikings.
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