Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey

Hog1 · 01-04-2006, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

Question to everyone who thinks Ramsey is going to be traded, who's going to backup Brunell? [not Campbell] Do we need another QB to come in and spend a year learning Gibbs offense? Who will then have to play if Brunell goes down. Ramsey is very reasonable I do not trade him for less than a #1. and even then I believe his value to us is worth more than what a #1 might bring back.

Why would it not be Campbell? It is the natural evoltuion of his career to step up the work he gets. That having been said, I think patrick is much better alternative in that scenario. However, even though he has done a good job being a team guy through this season, I would be shocked if he does not make a major push to be released/traded in the off-season.

Hog1 · 01-04-2006, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

Well if you believe Campbell is ready to step in start next season then OK, I find it hard to believe that Brunell, and Ramsey, who played in the offense last season and had a boat load of trouble trying to learn it, will then see Campbell step in and take us to the playoffs. Joey T. said it takes a full year to learn Gibbs system, and that's playing. So I highly doubt Campbell will be ready for quite sometime.

Actually, I said that it would be a logical step in the natural evoulution of things for Campbell (who is assumed to be the starter at some point in time) to take the number two role and start getting more work with the team. I also stated that Patrick is a better alternative at this time. However, I don't think he will have any part in that role!

Master4Caster · 01-04-2006, 08:16 AM

I am old school and am convinced that QBs need four to five years of seasoning before they should start. Starting Harrington, Carr, Boller in their first year hasn't helped them or their teams. Although you can make a case for Little Eli and Drew Brees, they really are the exception when you think of it and they have strong rushers in their backfield. Harrington, Carr, Boller, Orton and Ramsey will develop into fine starters along the line of Steve Buerlein and Brad Johnson (who spent his first five years as a back-up with the Vikings).

Much as Mark Brunell has done this year, he will be 36 next season. Jurgensen retired at about that age. Ramsey will be a better package next season than Campbell. Also, teams should grow their stars and keep them. Hard to do these days, but still the ideal situation. If Joe Gibbs can work his magic, maybe Ramsey stays.

Hog1 · 01-04-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master4Caster

I am old school and am convinced that QBs need four to five years of seasoning before they should start. Starting Harrington, Carr, Boller in their first year hasn't helped them or their teams. Although you can make a case for Little Eli and Drew Brees, they really are the exception when you think of it and they have strong rushers in their backfield. Harrington, Carr, Boller, Orton and Ramsey will develop into fine starters along the line of Steve Buerlein and Brad Johnson (who spent his first five years as a back-up with the Vikings).

Much as Mark Brunell has done this year, he will be 36 next season. Jurgensen retired at about that age. Ramsey will be a better package next season than Campbell. Also, teams should grow their stars and keep them. Hard to do these days, but still the ideal situation. If Joe Gibbs can work his magic, maybe Ramsey stays.

Yea, 'Im old school as well. In all honesty I cannot imagine anyone saying "were gonna' bench this dude for 5 years @ 5 mil per" so he can mature. The only one I can remember doing (I am sure there are more) something like that is the Skins, when Theisman was the backup to Kilmer, and it took him forever to prove himself better.

irish · 01-04-2006, 08:54 AM

PR will not stay with the skins. Like I said back in August, Gibbs, for whatever reason, has no confidence in PR. And for his part, I think PR knows this and wants to move on and see if he can catch-on and become a starter. Gibbs drafted Campbell and MB is Gibbs' boy, PR is the odd man out. PR may end up being a good QB in the NFL but it wont be with the skins.

Schneed10 · 01-04-2006, 08:59 AM

First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.

SmootSmack · 01-04-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.

What rookie #1 pick for the Saints are you talking about?

Hog1 · 01-04-2006, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

PR will not stay with the skins. Like I said back in August, Gibbs, for whatever reason, has no confidence in PR. And for his part, I think PR knows this and wants to move on and see if he can catch-on and become a starter. Gibbs drafted Campbell and MB is Gibbs' boy, PR is the odd man out. PR may end up being a good QB in the NFL but it wont be with the skins.

It's not a matter of Gibbs "not having confidence with PR". Gibbs would do what is necessary for the benefit of the team. He felt Brunell was a better fit this year. Obviously, he was correct. That does not mean PR has not improved, and could replace Brunell. Dude is 36! He may have to put Campbell away in the process. Like I said in an earlier post, it took SEVERAL seasons for Theismans to earn the job. I think your correct, PR will be an unhappy man, and will try to force a deal to leave.

Schneed10 · 01-04-2006, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

What rookie #1 pick for the Saints are you talking about?

Leinart or Young, assuming they take one of them. Brooks is out the door.

Mattyk · 01-04-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise.

Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role.

But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.

Great post, I totally agree.

I definitely agree that teams aren't likely to see Ramsey as a guy you can bring in and just hand the job to. He's definitely a guy that will be brought in to compete for a job. And that kind of guy doesn't command a #1 pick. And I think we'd be extremely luck to get a #2.

SmootSmack · 01-04-2006, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Leinart or Young, assuming they take one of them. Brooks is out the door.

Oh ok I thought you were talking about someone they already had on the roster.

And like you and Matty say I really can't see us getting a #1 pick for Ramsey straight up. If we do, then let us never, ever, ever again have a "We Need a General Manager" thread

FRPLG · 01-04-2006, 09:14 AM

I'd predict that Ramsey sticks around for one more year as the heir to Brunell. Then Ramsey will get a couple years to run the show while Campbell is the heir. It is not common in the league to do such because of the cap but this is how Gibbs always liked it before and if they can figure a reasonable way to justify the the cap numbers I would imagine that's Gibbs' version of the perfect situation.

irish · 01-04-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog1

It's not a matter of Gibbs "not having confidence with PR". Gibbs would do what is necessary for the benefit of the team. He felt Brunell was a better fit this year. Obviously, he was correct. That does not mean PR has not improved, and could replace Brunell. Dude is 36! He may have to put Campbell away in the process. Like I said in an earlier post, it took SEVERAL seasons for Theismans to earn the job. I think your correct, PR will be an unhappy man, and will try to force a deal to leave.

Gibbs pulled PR in the 1st half of the 1st game of the season. PR had not had a chance to do anything good or bad. MB had done nothing last year and people wrote him off for dead but Gibbs believed (correctly) that MB could get the job done better than PR could. Had Gibbs believed PR could get the job done he would not have pulled PR in the 1st game.

If pulling someone (who Gibbs said all preseason was the starter) in the 1st half of the 1st game of the year and replacing him with someone who was a complete stiff the year before is not a lack of confidence, I dont know what is.

Mattyk · 01-04-2006, 10:07 AM

Comparing how the two QBs looked all summer it's easy to see why Gibbs gave PR the quick hook when the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how we can even question the decision now considering how the season turned out.

10-6, playoffs, what more is there to say?

Daseal · 01-04-2006, 10:12 AM

I still think the real QB market will be shown when Volek and SChaub's futures with TN and ATL are known.

01-04-2006, 08:16 AM	#18
Master4Caster Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: DC area Posts: 374	Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey I am old school and am convinced that QBs need four to five years of seasoning before they should start. Starting Harrington, Carr, Boller in their first year hasn't helped them or their teams. Although you can make a case for Little Eli and Drew Brees, they really are the exception when you think of it and they have strong rushers in their backfield. Harrington, Carr, Boller, Orton and Ramsey will develop into fine starters along the line of Steve Buerlein and Brad Johnson (who spent his first five years as a back-up with the Vikings). Much as Mark Brunell has done this year, he will be 36 next season. Jurgensen retired at about that age. Ramsey will be a better package next season than Campbell. Also, teams should grow their stars and keep them. Hard to do these days, but still the ideal situation. If Joe Gibbs can work his magic, maybe Ramsey stays. __________________ Master4Caster http://runningredskins.blogspot.com http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins

01-04-2006, 08:54 AM	#20
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,328	Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey PR will not stay with the skins. Like I said back in August, Gibbs, for whatever reason, has no confidence in PR. And for his part, I think PR knows this and wants to move on and see if he can catch-on and become a starter. Gibbs drafted Campbell and MB is Gibbs' boy, PR is the odd man out. PR may end up being a good QB in the NFL but it wont be with the skins.

01-04-2006, 08:59 AM	#21
Schneed10 RG Glee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 33 Posts: 7,892	Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey First, I doubt the Jets would trade Abraham for Ramsey. I think to get Abraham in a Ramsey deal, we'd have to throw in a pick of some sort. And I don't think that would be wise. Secondly, the fact that Rivers and Brees are probably both off the market doesn't change much for Ramsey, in my eyes. I don't see a single team out there who thinks Ramsey is a clear-cut #1 QB. He's the kind of guy you bring in for insurance or as someone to compete for teh starting job. If he went to Miami he'd compete with Frerotte, who had a great finish to his season. If he went to NYJ he'd be insurance for Pennington. In Detroit he'd be competition for Harrington. In Houston, competition for Carr. New Orleans might be his best option, depending on what the Saints do with Todd Bouman. Seemed like Bouman was getting an audition to be the starter until the rookie #1 pick was ready to start. But Bouman was terrible, so maybe Ramsey ends up in that role. But when you think about it, there is no team Ramsey can go to where he'll be THE GUY. I'm not sure a 2nd round pick is likely for a guy like that. Not when other journeyman QBs will be available in free agency. I personally think a 3rd rounder is the best we'll do. And that's fine with me actually, because I don't think Ramsey is going to be anything special at any point in his career.

01-04-2006, 09:14 AM	#27
FRPLG Franchise Player Join Date: May 2004 Age: 34 Posts: 9,232	Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey I'd predict that Ramsey sticks around for one more year as the heir to Brunell. Then Ramsey will get a couple years to run the show while Campbell is the heir. It is not common in the league to do such because of the cap but this is how Gibbs always liked it before and if they can figure a reasonable way to justify the the cap numbers I would imagine that's Gibbs' version of the perfect situation.

01-04-2006, 10:07 AM	#29
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,653	Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey Comparing how the two QBs looked all summer it's easy to see why Gibbs gave PR the quick hook when the opportunity presented itself. I don't know how we can even question the decision now considering how the season turned out. 10-6, playoffs, what more is there to say? __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

01-04-2006, 10:12 AM	#30
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 30 Posts: 8,055	Re: Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey I still think the real QB market will be shown when Volek and SChaub's futures with TN and ATL are known. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

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Brees and Rivers and the Market for Ramsey

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