Free Agent WRs

mattdouthat · 01-18-2006, 10:45 AM

If we could get him I think Jerevicious is a great pick up he has good size and great hands. He does not drop balls. I mean he upgraded Seattle alot. Last few years all their recievers dropped balls was their biggest offensive flaw. But once he cracked line up you could see it change now you rarly hear of them dropping passes he is type who affects more than on field. He affects locker room and work ethic. As for Jacobs I never liked him. He was a Spurrier guy just like Shane Matthews ANd Danny Worthless Weureful. I mean very few of guys he brought in are still here. Beets is good, and Ramsey well everyone has opinions on him I like him but he has never really played under good system long enough to tell for sure.

jermus22 · 01-18-2006, 10:58 AM

Kevin Curtis from St. Louis could be really good. Jurevicius is a big possession type guy, something our offense could use. Troy Walters intrigues me. He would be a valuable return specialist, taking pressure off of Thrash and Moss on punt returns and allowing us to release Antonio Brown (who is fumble prone).

If we don't get Curtis, I like the idea of Jurevicius as the #2 with Patten as the #3 guy. On 3rd and long, Patten and Moss could both stretch the field with Jurevicius working the short to intermediate routes. I also like the idea of Walters as the return man; we could probably get him cheap.

celts32 · 01-18-2006, 01:21 PM

I like these guys in order...

1)Reggie Wayne Ind- He's the best on the list but to expensive.
2)Eric Moulds Buf- I think he has a lot of football left in him. We also have a lot of youth at the skill positions and would not be hurt by a veteran influence.
3)Joe Jurevicius Sea- Solid pick up with a big frame to move the chains.
4)Kevin Curtis- fast...good player...not sure he's a great compliment to Moss but he's real good.
5)Josh Reed Buf- potential but riskier than the others.
6)Antwaan Randle El Pit- Not sure he's consistent enough to be a #2 but brings alot of other value to the table.
7)Jabar Gaffney Hou- I like him...he would be an upgrade at #2.
8)Koren Robinson Min- Worth a shot if we can't get the others.

RFA’s

1)Brandon Lloyd SF/ I like him alot but the tender will be way to high. San fran is so completely void of talent that they would be crazy to let him go.

celts32 · 01-18-2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!

This is a little harsh. It was not all Greg Williams. Joe Gibbs was never all about X's & O's...he is a leader of men. He gets them to believe and play harder for him than they woluld anyone else. He envigorated the entire organization with a winning attitude. If it was all defense than why didn't spurrier win with the excellent defense that Marvin lewis built for him? Joe Gibbs has turned everything he touches into a winner. Greg Williams in Buffalo was a failure as a head coach even with one of the best defenses in the league. No doubt Greg Williams is a great defensive coach...but it was Gibbs who built the winning foundation and reinstilled the pride in being a Redskin.

SmootSmack · 01-18-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!

Our defense was very instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. But the offense didn't just sit on its ass all season. There are still some kinks to work out (as with any team) but to still say that Gibbs' offense hasn't caught up to today's defenses is, well to be blunt, idiotic. It's so idiotic, it's Offissotic (that was mean I know, but damn funny if I may say so myself).

Mattyk · 01-18-2006, 02:32 PM

The counter has been working fine, not sure what you've been watching offiss but we still run it quite regularly and with success. Thomas is one of the best pullers in the league.

Sociofan · 01-18-2006, 02:35 PM

Year Team G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD
2005-06 St. Louis 14 102 1331 95.1 13.0 44 2.4 63 9 (Torry Holt)
2005-06 Seattle 13 67 778 59.8 11.6 56 4.1 43 3 (Bobby Engram)
2005-06 Arizona 16 103 1409 88.1 13.7 47 3.7 67 10 (Larry Fitzgerald)
2005-06 San Diego 16 57 725 45.3 12.7 49 3.0 35 3 (Eric Parker)
2005-06 Oakland 16 76 942 58.9 12.4 49 3.4 45 5 (Jerry Porter)
2005-06 New Orleans 16 70 945 59.1 13.5 43 3.8 50 7 (Donte Stallworth)
2005-06 Indianapolis 16 83 1055 65.9 12.7 66 3.8 54 5 (Reggie Wayne)
2005-06 Houston 16 55 492 30.8 8.9 29 2.3 31 2 (Jabbar Gaffney)
2005-06 Cincinnati 14 78 956 68.3 12.3 43 4.1 52 7 (TJ Houshmanzadeh)
2005-06 NY Giants 16 60 684 42.8 11.4 37 2.7 37 7 (Amani Toomer)
2005-06 New England 13 59 738 56.8 12.5 40 3.9 32 2 (David Givens)

Someone asked what I expected from a #2. Here is a sample (somewhat random) of #2s (who played an entire season or nearly so) from top of the league to bottom and their outputs. Nearly all of them had better numbers than our current #2 was on pace to get. I expect around 60-70 catches from each of the X and Y receivers (spread the wealth from Santana a bit to save his body) and another 50-60 each from the Z and H-Back positions. And for an average 300 completion season, that leaves about 60 more receptions to be spread around with TEs, FBs, and RBs--a balanced attack at all levels of the field, NOT a true vertical game. We need a receiver who can give us that 60 catch season with 800-900 yards. Cooley filled that role this season very well, but he's still an overperforming H-Back. What I expect is a solid receiver who is as feared as the #1 (or nearly so), but doesn't have a hang-up about being "THE Man".

SkinsLB5607 · 01-18-2006, 02:54 PM

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2006...5943-8513r.htm

SmootSmack · 01-18-2006, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

HMMMmm, so what do think happened to our offense our last 3 games?

How's the counter trey been working out?

I do beleive we set a record in futility against Tampa for offense for a winning team in the playoffs, Tampa is not the 85' bears are they?

When was the last time we saw an offense that fultile during Gibbs first tenure?

Your more than welcome to prove your point.

I guess when J. Jansen said last year we were running an outdated offense he had it all wrong.

Counter trey's been working out fine, suffered a bit when Randy Thomas went down though.

We scored over 30 points in a game five different times this season. Something I believe we've only done once in the past decade.

As for Jansen's comments. First off, they were taken before this season. To say the offense hasn't improved from 2004 to 2005 and can't compete with today's defenses is ridiculous. And secondly, he said he thought we were running a 1992 offense. Which is kind of funny, since in 1992 we won the Super Bowl.

memphisskin · 01-18-2006, 03:15 PM

We definitely need a threat at #2, but I'm against going out and finding a free agent to fill that void. I thought we filled that last year with David Patten, and that kind of knee jerk reaction is typical of what we've done in past years. We need to find a way to get other guys the ball, but just finding another wideout is not the answer. We've got to stop trying to find the quick fix, and while I'm definitely for bringing in a big, physical wideout to balance out our offense I don't see why Taylor Jacobs can't be molded to fit that. I know he's been snakebitten by injuries every year he's been with us, but I'd much rather see us go after a pass rushing defensive end who help get us into blitzing situations than to bring in yet another wideout who will most certainly damage our cap situation and still may not help in the long run. Let's run the guys we've got instead of pining away over someone who may not even be the answer.

TheMalcolmConnection · 01-18-2006, 03:20 PM

It's mainly because Taylor Jacobs is a pansy that lacks killer instinct. I was all for giving him his chance and he blow ALL of them. Time to cut our losses and find someone in FA or the draft.

TheMalcolmConnection · 01-18-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinsLB5607

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2006...5943-8513r.htm

Ahh, I see you're from Niagara Falls. Gmanc, Daseal and I were up there during Christmas. We frequented a place you might recognize, Sundowner's (and pretty much every bar in town).

FRPLG · 01-18-2006, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

It did, our offense was at it's best when we hit the Tampa, Cowboy's and Giants, and there was no Patton in any one of those games.

The problem with your statement about TJ is this other posters who attend the games have said the guy does get open but Brunell doesn't consider looking his way.

Well the people who say he was able to consistently get open are wrong. He wasn't. He consistently had no seperation and didn't show any type of ability to use his arms to get off jams at the line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

All of a sudden the Patton injury was a big blow to the offense? Makes me laugh as if he was doing anything before the injury, especially considering he had one of the best WR's in the NFL opposite him, normal rational would say that Patton should have been feasting on defenses who are out to shut down Moss, not the other way around.

Moss had a hard time getting the ball after Patton went down? No your right it didn't cross my mind because that didn't really happen.

Jacobs is worthless? Well so was Patton, I guess Moss didn't catch a ball after Patton went down? Who are you kidding? Moss continued his torid pace with jacobs in there as well, so this fantasy that some how Patton was providing this mysterious double coverage so Moss could rome the secondary with no, or single coverage is just pure fantasy.

Yes losing Patten was a big blow. Moss's numberd DID go down after Patten went down.
------------ R Y Y/R TD
With Patten: 5.9 103 17.6 .55
W/O Patten: 4.5 78 17.6 .28

Patten played in the first 9 games. That makes Moss's number per game all down except yards per catch. You're wrong: his numbers did go down. It is a TESTAMENT TO GIBBS AND BRUNELL that the loss of Patten didn't seem as bad as it really was. It was simply pronounced against the defenses smart enough tor realize it and take advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

I am curious who points out on the Skins that Jacobs is a lowsey reciever, I know Gibbs sings his praises in practice, Gibbs put's him out there doesn't he, so now are you saying Gibbs doesn't have a clue? Are you saying gibbs is starting a player who can't play? And if the guy is as bad as you say why is he even on the team, Gibbs watched him all last season, he couldn't evaluate the guy for what he is after a year? Well perhaps we should have addressed the WR position in the draft, rather than drafting a QB with no one to throw to.

I haven't the energy to go find specific quotes but I think others will back me up when I say that more than once while the coaches were praising your man TJ for his practice efforts they also mentioned that he was failing to do the same in games. And yes the coaches put him out there. They put him out there because 2 of our top 3 WRs were down. He is our 4th WR. That's it. 4th. The fact that the Skins were trying every available option they could to get Thrash playing in the Seattle game should show you a little something about what they think of TJ. They'd rather have Thrash with a broken hand and a cast than Jacobs. Not a ringing endorsement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

Bottom line Patton was a big time reciever for the 3 time super bowl champs, comes to us and disapear's. So now JJ is a big time reciever, kind of funny he wasen't that with the Giants, and spends a lot of time on the injured list, systems and QB's can make or break a WR, and that is why I haven't closed the book on Jacobs, when a proven player like Patton disapears in our offense then that should raise a red flag that there could be another problem besides just the reciever. The fact is if Patton didn't do what he did in New England you would be trashing him to, saying the same things about him as you have about Jacobs, Patton spent more time on the bench injured this season than Jacobs?

Disappears? He was on pace for the same type season. And don';t even try to compare injury histories. Jacobs is a walking hernia/abdominal strain/ankle injury while Patten has been hurt once. No comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by offiss

Maybe Jacobs doesn't have what it takes who know's, but to make that assesment when all he has had is Brunell throwing him the ball just doesn't cut it for me. I seem to remember Coles wasen't overly enomoured with Brunell throwing him the ball either.

Brunell wasn't throwing to him actually because he sucks. Plain and simple. He has never shown anything ever in this league. To still support him in the face of insurmountable evidence is strange.

Redskins_P · 01-18-2006, 04:38 PM

Can someone find the quote where Jacobs said he was being covered by 2, 4.4 speed corners and there was nothing he could do?

TAFKAS, can you find it for me?

I mean right there should tell you that he doesn't belong in the NFL. You gotta have some swagger and confidence to be a WR at this level.

Sociofan · 01-18-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkinsLB5607

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2006...5943-8513r.htm

Wow! I didn't realize the cap situation was already so bad.

Maybe we can get Charley Taylor and Roy Jefferson to suit up for the league minimum.

01-18-2006, 10:45 AM	#31
mattdouthat Camp Scrub Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 50	Re: Free Agent WRs If we could get him I think Jerevicious is a great pick up he has good size and great hands. He does not drop balls. I mean he upgraded Seattle alot. Last few years all their recievers dropped balls was their biggest offensive flaw. But once he cracked line up you could see it change now you rarly hear of them dropping passes he is type who affects more than on field. He affects locker room and work ethic. As for Jacobs I never liked him. He was a Spurrier guy just like Shane Matthews ANd Danny Worthless Weureful. I mean very few of guys he brought in are still here. Beets is good, and Ramsey well everyone has opinions on him I like him but he has never really played under good system long enough to tell for sure.

01-18-2006, 10:58 AM	#32
jermus22 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Martinsburg, WV Age: 30 Posts: 334	Re: Free Agent WRs Kevin Curtis from St. Louis could be really good. Jurevicius is a big possession type guy, something our offense could use. Troy Walters intrigues me. He would be a valuable return specialist, taking pressure off of Thrash and Moss on punt returns and allowing us to release Antonio Brown (who is fumble prone). If we don't get Curtis, I like the idea of Jurevicius as the #2 with Patten as the #3 guy. On 3rd and long, Patten and Moss could both stretch the field with Jurevicius working the short to intermediate routes. I also like the idea of Walters as the return man; we could probably get him cheap. __________________ Win it in the trenches.

01-18-2006, 01:21 PM	#33
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 41 Posts: 2,643	Re: Free Agent WRs I like these guys in order... 1)Reggie Wayne Ind- He's the best on the list but to expensive. 2)Eric Moulds Buf- I think he has a lot of football left in him. We also have a lot of youth at the skill positions and would not be hurt by a veteran influence. 3)Joe Jurevicius Sea- Solid pick up with a big frame to move the chains. 4)Kevin Curtis- fast...good player...not sure he's a great compliment to Moss but he's real good. 5)Josh Reed Buf- potential but riskier than the others. 6)Antwaan Randle El Pit- Not sure he's consistent enough to be a #2 but brings alot of other value to the table. 7)Jabar Gaffney Hou- I like him...he would be an upgrade at #2. 8)Koren Robinson Min- Worth a shot if we can't get the others. RFA’s 1)Brandon Lloyd SF/ I like him alot but the tender will be way to high. San fran is so completely void of talent that they would be crazy to let him go. __________________ Section 115 Row 23 “Goal line, goal line. I-left, tight wing, 70 chip on white.” http://victorybeer.com/

01-18-2006, 02:32 PM	#36
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,739	Re: Free Agent WRs The counter has been working fine, not sure what you've been watching offiss but we still run it quite regularly and with success. Thomas is one of the best pullers in the league.

01-18-2006, 02:35 PM	#37
Sociofan Special Teams Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Gainesville, VA Age: 48 Posts: 380	Re: Free Agent WRs Year Team G Rec Yds Y/G Avg Lng YAC 1stD TD 2005-06 St. Louis 14 102 1331 95.1 13.0 44 2.4 63 9 (Torry Holt) 2005-06 Seattle 13 67 778 59.8 11.6 56 4.1 43 3 (Bobby Engram) 2005-06 Arizona 16 103 1409 88.1 13.7 47 3.7 67 10 (Larry Fitzgerald) 2005-06 San Diego 16 57 725 45.3 12.7 49 3.0 35 3 (Eric Parker) 2005-06 Oakland 16 76 942 58.9 12.4 49 3.4 45 5 (Jerry Porter) 2005-06 New Orleans 16 70 945 59.1 13.5 43 3.8 50 7 (Donte Stallworth) 2005-06 Indianapolis 16 83 1055 65.9 12.7 66 3.8 54 5 (Reggie Wayne) 2005-06 Houston 16 55 492 30.8 8.9 29 2.3 31 2 (Jabbar Gaffney) 2005-06 Cincinnati 14 78 956 68.3 12.3 43 4.1 52 7 (TJ Houshmanzadeh) 2005-06 NY Giants 16 60 684 42.8 11.4 37 2.7 37 7 (Amani Toomer) 2005-06 New England 13 59 738 56.8 12.5 40 3.9 32 2 (David Givens) Someone asked what I expected from a #2. Here is a sample (somewhat random) of #2s (who played an entire season or nearly so) from top of the league to bottom and their outputs. Nearly all of them had better numbers than our current #2 was on pace to get. I expect around 60-70 catches from each of the X and Y receivers (spread the wealth from Santana a bit to save his body) and another 50-60 each from the Z and H-Back positions. And for an average 300 completion season, that leaves about 60 more receptions to be spread around with TEs, FBs, and RBs--a balanced attack at all levels of the field, NOT a true vertical game. We need a receiver who can give us that 60 catch season with 800-900 yards. Cooley filled that role this season very well, but he's still an overperforming H-Back. What I expect is a solid receiver who is as feared as the #1 (or nearly so), but doesn't have a hang-up about being "THE Man".

01-18-2006, 02:54 PM	#38
SkinsLB5607 Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Niagara Falls Ontario, CANADA Age: 26 Posts: 42	Re: Free Agent WRs http://www.washtimes.com/sports/2006...5943-8513r.htm __________________ I Bleed BURGUNDY and GOLD

01-18-2006, 03:15 PM	#40
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 41 Posts: 958	Re: Free Agent WRs We definitely need a threat at #2, but I'm against going out and finding a free agent to fill that void. I thought we filled that last year with David Patten, and that kind of knee jerk reaction is typical of what we've done in past years. We need to find a way to get other guys the ball, but just finding another wideout is not the answer. We've got to stop trying to find the quick fix, and while I'm definitely for bringing in a big, physical wideout to balance out our offense I don't see why Taylor Jacobs can't be molded to fit that. I know he's been snakebitten by injuries every year he's been with us, but I'd much rather see us go after a pass rushing defensive end who help get us into blitzing situations than to bring in yet another wideout who will most certainly damage our cap situation and still may not help in the long run. Let's run the guys we've got instead of pining away over someone who may not even be the answer.

01-18-2006, 03:20 PM	#41
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lexington, Virginia Age: 31 Posts: 17,120	Re: Free Agent WRs It's mainly because Taylor Jacobs is a pansy that lacks killer instinct. I was all for giving him his chance and he blow ALL of them. Time to cut our losses and find someone in FA or the draft. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

01-18-2006, 04:38 PM	#44
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sterling, VA Age: 34 Posts: 4,065	Re: Free Agent WRs Can someone find the quote where Jacobs said he was being covered by 2, 4.4 speed corners and there was nothing he could do? TAFKAS, can you find it for me? I mean right there should tell you that he doesn't belong in the NFL. You gotta have some swagger and confidence to be a WR at this level.

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