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Old 01-18-2006, 10:21 AM   #31
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Re: Free Agent WRs

I don't know if he is our guy, but Randall El is a "party" on a trick play. You know Joe has to like that
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Old 01-18-2006, 10:42 AM   #32
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins
Quit bashing Brunnel and lets get back to the subject -- #2 receiver. Whoever the quarterback is next year will need some better options. Looking at your list, the name that jumps out to me is Brandon Lloyd. San Francisco would be a fool not to resign him. This guy is on the verge of a major breakout and was held back by Frisco's quarterback carosel.
David Givens - Patriot receivers are over-rated
Reggie Wayne - nice pickup, too expensive
Josh Reed - this would be a great acquisition
Randy Hymes - please, a Ravens receiver -- NO
Antonio Bryant - another bum
Antwaan Randle El - good pick, would also help return game
Eric Moulds - once was great, now too old
Joe Jurevicius - ok
Peter Warrick - a major bust, him and Taylor Jacobs could be roomates
Jabar Gaffney - this is the big receiver the Skins need. I like him.
Rod Gardner - been there, done that -- didn't he detonate some bridges
Corey Bradford - not bad
Kevin Johnson - yuck!
Peerless Price - Peerless is worthless
Dez White - another big athletic receiver I would like to see in a Skins uniform
Koren Robinson - drops too many passes
Quincy Morgan - invisible man
Az-Zhair Hakim - had his best years with the Rams, fumble prone and drops passes
Tim Carter - don't know much about him
David Boston - injuries have slowed him down
We need big and move the chains kind of guy here.

UFA’s

1)David Givens NE/ Solid #2
2)Reggie Wayne Ind/ to much money and already have moss
3)Josh Reed Buf/ never really fit in buffalo, may not work here
4)Randy Hymes Bal/ NO bal wr?? look at his qb, should be a nice pickup
5)Antonio Bryant Cle/ threw a towell in parcells face
6)Antwaan Randle El Pit/ Nice #3 wr but to much money for #3
7)Eric Moulds Buf/ Solid pick up with leadership to help everyone
8)Joe Jurevicius Sea/ Solid pick up with leadership and 6'5" frame
9)Peter Warrick Sea/ bust
10)Jabar Gaffney Hou/ may be ok, but not worth the risk
11)Rod Gardner Car/ LOL
12)Corey Bradford Hou/big body with some speed, this one up in the air
13)Kevin Johnson Det/ NO
14)Peerless Price Dal/ NO
15)Dez White Atl/ Big and athletic, another toss up based on no productivity
16)Koren Robinson Min/ NO
17)Quincy Morgan Pit/ NO
18)Az-Zhair Hakim /NO
19)Tim Carter NYG/ Very fast and avg height, not really proven enough
20)David Boston Mia/ LOL
21)Ike Hillard TB/ old florida WR,,, NO
22)Troy Brown NE/ Old and short with aging speed, no
23)Tim Dwight NE/ old and short with speed coming to an end soon
24)Jerome Pathon Atl/ typical #3 wr, no
25)Charles Lee Ari/ playing behind Fitz and Boldin is hard, toss up
26)Marc Boerighter KC/ seemed like he was worth value, look at stats, NO
27)Reggie Swinton Ari/ typical return guy, i think we had him on Try out team b4
28)Troy Walters Ind/ NO, return guy
29)Patrick Johnson Bal/ wont work out again, retire dude

RFA’s

1)Brandon Lloyd SF/ streaky and appears to be really stupid, RFA=1st RD
2)Patrick Crayton Dal/NO
3)Nate Burleson Min/NO, 6 footer
4)Eddie Drummond Det/ KR no
5)Kevin Walter Cin/ seen him against Pit, looked good, worth a try
6)Shaun McDonald Stl/ dont really need, short and speedy
7)Willie Ponder NYG/ appears to be great on SP's
8)Kevin Curtis Stl/ same with his buddy two names up
9)Kelley Washington Cin/ young and not proven, attitude issues trail as well
10)David Tyree NYG/ havent heard of
11)Derick Armstrong Hou/ havent heard of
12)Kaseem Osgood SD/ ummmm NO?, yeah no
13)Arnaz Battle SF/ could be what we are looking for, 6'2' with good hands
14)Chris Horn KC/ no
15)Bryan Gilmore Mia/ no
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:39 AM   #33
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Re: Free Agent WRs

I think David Patten and Patrick Ramsey played well together in the preseason; Ramsey threw about 5-6 20 yard deep outs to patten in those games, and they looked like they had chemistry. At that time, from waht i saw in the preseason, I thought Patten would be Ramsey's favorite target, and while we would get big chunks of yardages, there would be turnovers too. Hopefully Patten plays 100% next year, and we have a quaterback playing next year who is willing to spread the ball around and is accurate on those 15-20 yard outs (minus the turnovers). I liked what i saw out of Brunell the first half off the season, but he seemed unable to spread the ball around toward the end of the season, and played mediocre football after the the first Bucs game.

I like Randy Hymes since he is a big, strong target.
I like Kevin Curtis, since he is a speedy big play threat.
I hope we can draft Sinorice Moss in the later rounds because it would be like having Santana Moss and Steve Smith on the same team, and then find a big tall target like Randy Hymes or a big TE who can get downfield via free agency.
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:42 AM   #34
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss
I beleive Patton would have been high on that list if he was still with New England, what makes anyone think that any of these guy's will flurish as a #2 in our offense, our offense is like the elephant graveyard for #2 WR's this is where they come to never be heard from again, whether it's Brunell or the offensive scheme take your pick, but spending big money on a high profile WR, to have him run sprints in practice, and play an apparent decoy in the games is a waste of money.

I wont argue the fact that maybe Patten is best as a #3 reciever, but we have had plenty of #2's and Brunell hasen't been able to hook up with any of them.

I wonder how T. Jacobs would be doing if he played in New England, he actually reminds me of David Givens a bit, without the QB of coarse.
Jacobs would have three catches for 13 yards and only played 2 games due to injuries an illness.
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:44 AM   #35
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan1982
I think David Patten and Patrick Ramsey played well together in the preseason; Ramsey threw about 5-6 20 yard deep outs to patten in those games, and they looked like they had chemistry. At that time, from waht i saw in the preseason, I thought Patten would be Ramsey's favorite target, and while we would get big chunks of yardages, there would be turnovers too. Hopefully Patten plays 100% next year, and we have a quaterback playing next year who is willing to spread the ball around and is accurate on those 15-20 yard outs (minus the turnovers). I liked what i saw out of Brunell the first half off the season, but he seemed unable to spread the ball around toward the end of the season, and played mediocre football after the the first Bucs game.

I like Randy Hymes since he is a big, strong target.
I like Kevin Curtis, since he is a speedy big play threat.
I hope we can draft Sinorice Moss in the later rounds because it would be like having Santana Moss and Steve Smith on the same team, and then find a big tall target like Randy Hymes or a big TE who can get downfield via free agency.
Good point about Patten playing well in the preseason, it might make sense that Brunell and Patten just never quite got on the same page because of how Moss just exploded. I think with how Moss was playing so well, the gameplan naturally tilted in his direction and Brunell and Moss quickly developed a chemistry together. By the time teams started taking Moss away and Patten would have had the chance to step up, he went out with the injury.
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:45 AM   #36
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Re: Free Agent WRs

If we could get him I think Jerevicious is a great pick up he has good size and great hands. He does not drop balls. I mean he upgraded Seattle alot. Last few years all their recievers dropped balls was their biggest offensive flaw. But once he cracked line up you could see it change now you rarly hear of them dropping passes he is type who affects more than on field. He affects locker room and work ethic. As for Jacobs I never liked him. He was a Spurrier guy just like Shane Matthews ANd Danny Worthless Weureful. I mean very few of guys he brought in are still here. Beets is good, and Ramsey well everyone has opinions on him I like him but he has never really played under good system long enough to tell for sure.
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:58 AM   #37
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Kevin Curtis from St. Louis could be really good. Jurevicius is a big possession type guy, something our offense could use. Troy Walters intrigues me. He would be a valuable return specialist, taking pressure off of Thrash and Moss on punt returns and allowing us to release Antonio Brown (who is fumble prone).

If we don't get Curtis, I like the idea of Jurevicius as the #2 with Patten as the #3 guy. On 3rd and long, Patten and Moss could both stretch the field with Jurevicius working the short to intermediate routes. I also like the idea of Walters as the return man; we could probably get him cheap.
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Old 01-18-2006, 02:09 PM   #38
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRPLG
offiss.

Has it even crossed your mind that our offense changed dramatically when Patten went down? Was it not as clear to you as it was to many others that when Patten was out Moss clearly had a more difficult time getting open and was overwhelmed with double teams? Do you think it simply escaped everyone at Redskins Park that our WR2s weren't getting balls and they simply ignored it to the complete detriment to the passing game? What we had after Patten went down was:
Jacobs-basically he has proven to be worthless. You can blame Brunell all you want but a QB will look a guys way when he knows that guy will be open. TJ didn't get open. That was of course when he wasn't on the sideline sick. Plus how do you know Brunell didn't look at him and decide he wasn't open? You can't just throw him a ball unless he is open.
Thrash-Probably has a lost a step and therefore isn't suited as much to be a 2 as maybe a 3 or even a 4. A valuable special teamer he also was probably somewhat distracted playing almost 2/3 of the game.
Nobodies-A bunch of barely NFL caliber WRs who are best as special teamers with spot work on offense.

Look I don't understand why you defend Jacobs. He has had chances here and has NEVER done anything. Under this regime and before. The coaches point out that he doesn't do well in games. They actually POINT IT OUT. He isn't a good WR.

So I think TAFKAS is right. We need to look at gamers like JJ. I also think the best option is Randle El. He is exactly the type of guy we need. He can be a solid slot guy and he brings some dimension to the offense with his passing skills and overall athletic ability.

You can bang on Brunell all you want(I have also lately) but I do think the lack of a consistent WR2 and WR3 was not his fault. These guys have to know how to get open and do the little things to be good WRs.
It did, our offense was at it's best when we hit the Tampa, Cowboy's and Giants, and there was no Patton in any one of those games.

The problem with your statement about TJ is this other posters who attend the games have said the guy does get open but Brunell doesn't consider looking his way.

All of a sudden the Patton injury was a big blow to the offense? Makes me laugh as if he was doing anything before the injury, especially considering he had one of the best WR's in the NFL opposite him, normal rational would say that Patton should have been feasting on defenses who are out to shut down Moss, not the other way around.

Moss had a hard time getting the ball after Patton went down? No your right it didn't cross my mind because that didn't really happen.

Jacobs is worthless? Well so was Patton, I guess Moss didn't catch a ball after Patton went down? Who are you kidding? Moss continued his torid pace with jacobs in there as well, so this fantasy that some how Patton was providing this mysterious double coverage so Moss could rome the secondary with no, or single coverage is just pure fantasy.

I am curious who points out on the Skins that Jacobs is a lowsey reciever, I know Gibbs sings his praises in practice, Gibbs put's him out there doesn't he, so now are you saying Gibbs doesn't have a clue? Are you saying gibbs is starting a player who can't play? And if the guy is as bad as you say why is he even on the team, Gibbs watched him all last season, he couldn't evaluate the guy for what he is after a year? Well perhaps we should have addressed the WR position in the draft, rather than drafting a QB with no one to throw to.

Bottom line Patton was a big time reciever for the 3 time super bowl champs, comes to us and disapear's. So now JJ is a big time reciever, kind of funny he wasen't that with the Giants, and spends a lot of time on the injured list, systems and QB's can make or break a WR, and that is why I haven't closed the book on Jacobs, when a proven player like Patton disapears in our offense then that should raise a red flag that there could be another problem besides just the reciever. The fact is if Patton didn't do what he did in New England you would be trashing him to, saying the same things about him as you have about Jacobs, Patton spent more time on the bench injured this season than Jacobs?

Maybe Jacobs doesn't have what it takes who know's, but to make that assesment when all he has had is Brunell throwing him the ball just doesn't cut it for me. I seem to remember Coles wasen't overly enomoured with Brunell throwing him the ball either.
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Old 01-18-2006, 02:21 PM   #39
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Re: Free Agent WRs

I like these guys in order...

1)Reggie Wayne Ind- He's the best on the list but to expensive.
2)Eric Moulds Buf- I think he has a lot of football left in him. We also have a lot of youth at the skill positions and would not be hurt by a veteran influence.
3)Joe Jurevicius Sea- Solid pick up with a big frame to move the chains.
4)Kevin Curtis- fast...good player...not sure he's a great compliment to Moss but he's real good.
5)Josh Reed Buf- potential but riskier than the others.
6)Antwaan Randle El Pit- Not sure he's consistent enough to be a #2 but brings alot of other value to the table.
7)Jabar Gaffney Hou- I like him...he would be an upgrade at #2.
8)Koren Robinson Min- Worth a shot if we can't get the others.


RFA’s

1)Brandon Lloyd SF/ I like him alot but the tender will be way to high. San fran is so completely void of talent that they would be crazy to let him go.
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Old 01-18-2006, 02:27 PM   #40
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana87
:yeahright
I'm glad you put some thought into this before you just starting bashing the QB that got you to the playoffs for the first time since '99 and a scheme that has had some of the great 1-2 punches in the league... Charley Brown, Art Monk...Gary Clark, Art Monk... Nice Job! :yeahright

What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!
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Old 01-18-2006, 02:48 PM   #41
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss
What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!
This is a little harsh. It was not all Greg Williams. Joe Gibbs was never all about X's & O's...he is a leader of men. He gets them to believe and play harder for him than they woluld anyone else. He envigorated the entire organization with a winning attitude. If it was all defense than why didn't spurrier win with the excellent defense that Marvin lewis built for him? Joe Gibbs has turned everything he touches into a winner. Greg Williams in Buffalo was a failure as a head coach even with one of the best defenses in the league. No doubt Greg Williams is a great defensive coach...but it was Gibbs who built the winning foundation and reinstilled the pride in being a Redskin.
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Old 01-18-2006, 02:51 PM   #42
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss
What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!
Our defense was very instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. But the offense didn't just sit on its ass all season. There are still some kinks to work out (as with any team) but to still say that Gibbs' offense hasn't caught up to today's defenses is, well to be blunt, idiotic. It's so idiotic, it's Offissotic (that was mean I know, but damn funny if I may say so myself).
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:17 PM   #43
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by celts32
This is a little harsh. It was not all Greg Williams. Joe Gibbs was never all about X's & O's...he is a leader of men. He gets them to believe and play harder for him than they woluld anyone else. He envigorated the entire organization with a winning attitude. If it was all defense than why didn't spurrier win with the excellent defense that Marvin lewis built for him? Joe Gibbs has turned everything he touches into a winner. Greg Williams in Buffalo was a failure as a head coach even with one of the best defenses in the league. No doubt Greg Williams is a great defensive coach...but it was Gibbs who built the winning foundation and reinstilled the pride in being a Redskin.
Very good reply, I agree that Gibbs organizational skills are probably maybe the best ever, I also agree that had a big part in the turn around of the team.

But I do disagree with the Lewis analogy, our defense under Lewis although ranked in the top 10 stat wise, never really could stop anyone when it counted, Lewis is not in the same league as Williams defensivly, not even close.
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:28 PM   #44
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Re: Free Agent WRs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAS
Our defense was very instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. But the offense didn't just sit on its ass all season. There are still some kinks to work out (as with any team) but to still say that Gibbs' offense hasn't caught up to today's defenses is, well to be blunt, idiotic. It's so idiotic, it's Offissotic (that was mean I know, but damn funny if I may say so myself).

HMMMmm, so what do think happened to our offense our last 3 games?

How's the counter trey been working out?

I do beleive we set a record in futility against Tampa for offense for a winning team in the playoffs, Tampa is not the 85' bears are they?

When was the last time we saw an offense that fultile during Gibbs first tenure?

Your more than welcome to prove your point.

I guess when J. Jansen said last year we were running an outdated offense he had it all wrong.
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Old 01-18-2006, 03:32 PM   #45
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Re: Free Agent WRs

The counter has been working fine, not sure what you've been watching offiss but we still run it quite regularly and with success. Thomas is one of the best pullers in the league.
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