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Core group to be competitive-Worst case

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Old 03-01-2006, 09:29 AM   #1
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Core group to be competitive-Worst case

With the CBA mess going on and the rumors that we may have as many as 20 rookies on the roster to get under the cap (which seems absolutely ridiculous to me), who are the players that we HAVE to keep around in order to at least compete in '06? My list (without doing cap calculations, someone smarter than me can tell me if it works) is:
QB-Brunell, Campbell
RB-Portis, Nemo
FB/HB-Cooley, Sellers
TE-?
LT-Samuels
LG-Wilson
C-Rabach
RG-Thomas
RT-Jansen
WR-Moss, Patten
P-Frost
K-?
DE-Daniels
DT-Griffin
DT-Saleva'a
DE-Evans
LB-Clemons
LB-Marshall
LB-Washington
CB-Springs
FS-Taylor
SS-Stoutmire
CB-Rogers
PR/KR-Brown

That's 25 players and with a 45 man roster that assumes the rest would be rookies.. That leaves us with NO veteran depth.. Additions/subtractions/other options?
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Old 03-01-2006, 09:33 AM   #2
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

I think the thing that could really hurt us, if we went with that group, would be that we would have Nemo backing up Portis, alone. I don't know if I have that much faith in a guy who didn't really see the field this year. I don't think that he can back Portis up by himself. I think we really need Rock or Betts on the roster.

I also think that, if need be, we could get by without Philip Daniels.
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Old 03-01-2006, 09:38 AM   #3
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

I don't think you can be competitive without at least 1-2 veteran backups in the following:
O-line
D-line
LB
Secondary

I don't necessarily fear rotating rookies into the game. I fear 2-3 rookie starters. People are going to get hurt, and we need some vets to back them up.
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Old 03-01-2006, 09:58 AM   #4
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

It would probably be a mistake to try to be competitive.

I think you'd have to look at it as sacrificing the 2006 season and lop off top-salaried vets who are on the downside of their careers: Brunell, Samuels, Springs, Daniels...keep as much young talent as possible.
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Old 03-01-2006, 09:59 AM   #5
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintrain
With the CBA mess going on and the rumors that we may have as many as 20 rookies on the roster to get under the cap (which seems absolutely ridiculous to me), who are the players that we HAVE to keep around in order to at least compete in '06? My list (without doing cap calculations, someone smarter than me can tell me if it works) is:
QB-Brunell, Campbell
RB-Portis, Nemo
FB/HB-Cooley, Sellers
TE-?
LT-Samuels
LG-Wilson
C-Rabach
RG-Thomas
RT-Jansen
WR-Moss, Patten
P-Frost
K-?
DE-Daniels
DT-Griffin
DT-Saleva'a
DE-Evans
LB-Clemons
LB-Marshall
LB-Washington
CB-Springs
FS-Taylor
SS-Stoutmire
CB-Rogers
PR/KR-Brown

That's 25 players and with a 45 man roster that assumes the rest would be rookies.. That leaves us with NO veteran depth.. Additions/subtractions/other options?
wilson got cut before the season, it'd be doc (or a rookie). evans is gone (FA, can't resign), stoutmire is gone (FA), brown is gone, frost is gone (both are too expensive at their vet mins due to year played).

we also get 7 draftees, so maybe toss doc and replace him with a rookie 2nd rounder, punter has to be a first year guy (koch), we have a 1st year kicker on roster already.

the skins can draft a TE and OG in the 2nd and 3rd, keep doc and get a CB in the 5th (gerrick McPherson)... then see whose left in the 6th for DL or WR depth :/ not the best situation. our DL is going to kinda suck though griffin is good and daniels is okay (if he can be kept).
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:05 AM   #6
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

If there is no CBA extension, as appears will be the case, we will enter the final uncapped season.

The following players will NOT be considered potential cuts by the Redskins, because cutting them will cost more than keeping them:

Shawn Springs
Clinton Portis
Mark Brunell
Randy Thomas
Cornelius Griffin
Sean Taylor
Santana Moss
Carlos Rogers
Jason Campbell
Lavar Arrington

Everyone else would get consideration for the axe, because cutting them would represent a savings. For the rest of the roster, here are the players with the potential to get cut, in an order based on my perception of most likely to be cut to the least likely to be cut.

Player - Cap Savings
Matt Bowen - $2 M
Brandon Noble - $1.7 M
Cory Raymer - $1 M
Walt Harris - $2 M
Patrick Ramsey - $1.7 M (assuming trade)
John Hall - $1.2 M
James Thrash - $875 K
Pierson Prioleau - $550 K
David Patten - $650 K
Taylor Jacobs - $100 K
Tom Tupa - $600 K
Mike Sellers - $500 K
Reynaldo Wynn - $400 K
Casey Rabach - $1.1 M
Ladell Betts - $550 K
Manny White - $100 K
Joe Salavea'a - $500 K
Phillip Daniels - $800 K
Lemar Marshall - $400 K
Derrick Dockery - $450 K
Jon Jansen - $800 K
Marcus Washington - $500 K
Chris Samuels - $300 K
Chris Cooley - $200 K

So I'm saying Bowen is the most likely to be cut, and Cooley is the least likely. If I were GM and I had to make cuts, I'd go straight down the list from the top until I got under the cap. Hopefully people restructure enough so that we don't have to go too far down the list.

All the other players on the roster don't have signing bonuses, they just have the league minimum base salaries based on their level of experience. Guys like Ryan Boschetti could be replaced by rookies to save about $100 K apiece.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:11 AM   #7
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

lavar would save money cause of the roster bonus he wouldn't get. cutting the filler contracts (vet min guys) would also save nearly 6mill$ in space.

you'd lose money on TJ cause of his replacement cost. no way he goes. same with white and cooley.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:13 AM   #8
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

Here's a basic outline that could keep most starters (CBA talks have broken down again)
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:22 AM   #9
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy
lavar would save money cause of the roster bonus he wouldn't get. cutting the filler contracts (vet min guys) would also save nearly 6mill$ in space.

you'd lose money on TJ cause of his replacement cost. no way he goes. same with white and cooley.
On Lavar, the remaining portion of his signing bonus is so great that it outweighs the $6 million roster bonus. If you cut Lavar, his remaining prorated signing bonus will accelerate and hit us with $12.8 million in 2006. Keeping him, even paying him the roster bonus, will result in a hit of only $12 million.

Hopefully they can get that roster bonus down in some sort of restructure.

You're right about TJ, replacing him even with a rookie would be a net hurt to our cap. And White and Cooley are so far down the list that I don't think the Skins would ever have to get that deep in their cuts.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:31 AM   #10
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10
On Lavar, the remaining portion of his signing bonus is so great that it outweighs the $6 million roster bonus. If you cut Lavar, his remaining prorated signing bonus will accelerate and hit us with $12.8 million in 2006. Keeping him, even paying him the roster bonus, will result in a hit of only $12 million.

Hopefully they can get that roster bonus down in some sort of restructure.

You're right about TJ, replacing him even with a rookie would be a net hurt to our cap. And White and Cooley are so far down the list that I don't think the Skins would ever have to get that deep in their cuts.
white and cooley would both be negative cuts.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:39 AM   #11
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

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Originally Posted by That Guy
white and cooley would both be negative cuts.
You're right, assuming that we're starting from a roster of 53 players. Which would mean we'd have to replace Cooley and White. But we're not, our roster is huge right now because of the chump FAs we signed in January, guys like Lumsden. They're already figured into the salary cap totals being reported by Clayton et al.

It depends which cap number you're working from. Canuck's number nets out the guys on the roster beyond the first 53. So if you're working from that number and trying to get down to $95 million, you're right, you'd have to find replacements for Cooley and White, and include them in the Canuck number. That would make cutting Cooley and White pointless due to your replacement costs.

But if you're starting from the Clayton number (which is a little higher than Canuck's) then the replacements are already on board. And I'm not totally sure, but I think NFL teams have to get their entire roster under the cap, not just the first 53 guys.

Anyway, the point is pretty much moot. Cooley and White would stick around pretty much under any circumstances. They are two of the last guys the Skins would ever want to get rid of.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:46 AM   #12
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

k, here's a list for anyone that wants to try it...
copy and paste it between [ code ] [ /code ] tags to keep the formatting.

Code:
2006 Salary - Release Fee = Savings.
	Total savings must be > $21million.

Player			2006 Salary	Release Fee
LaVar Arrington		$12,046		$12,846
Chris Samuels 		$10,218		$9,932
Jon Jansen 		$5,603		$4,809
Shawn Springs 		$5,558		$6,833
Clinton Portis 		$5,476		$7,723
Mark Brunell 		$5,433		$5,733
Marcus Washington 	$5,167		$4,677
Randy Thomas 		$4,912		$5,648
Cornelius Griffin 	$4,883		$5,533
Sean Taylor 		$4,690		$8,380
Santana Moss 		$4,260		$9,400
Renaldo Wynn 		$3,453		$3,057
Patrick Ramsey 		$2,882		$1,194
Casey Rabach 		$3,145		$2,000
Walt Harris 		$2,750		$750
Brandon Noble 		$2,630		$930
Phillip Daniels 	$2,600		$1,800
David Patten 		$2,447		$1,800
Matt Bowen 		$2,400		$400
Carlos Rogers 		$2,297		$9,104
John Hall 		$1,820		$640
Jason Campbell 		$1,341		$4,122
James Thrash 		$1,125		$250
Cory Raymer 		$1,118		$133
Tom Tupa 		$939		$338
Pierson Prioleau 	$850		$300
Taylor Jacobs 		$841		$724
Joe Salave'a 		$837		$333
Ladell Betts 		$810		$265
Lemar Marshall 		$759		$363
Mike Sellers 		$595		$100
Derrick Dockery 	$581		$121
Chris Cooley 		$549		$328
Karon Riley 		$460		
Ethan Albright 		$485		$25
Derrick Frost 		$460		
Antonio Brown 		$460		
Jimmy Farris 		$460		
Manuel White Jr. 	$416		$319
Jim Molinaro 		$409		$24
Ryan Boschetti 		$385		
Jashon Sykes 		$385		
Kerry Carter 		$385		
Ron Johnson 		$385		
Curry Burns 		$385		
Nehemiah Broughton 	$324		$28
James Bethea 		$310		
Nic Clemons 		$310		
Robert McCune 		$310		
Robert Johnson 		$310		
Christian Morton 	$310		
Ikechuku Ndukwe 	$310		
Dimitri Patterson 	$310		
Ataveus Cash 		$310		
LaShaun Ward 		$310		
Richard Smith 		$310		
Casey Bramlet 		$310		
Jim Jones 		$310		
Aki Jones 		$310		
Sean Guthrie 		$235		
Jonta Woodard 		$235		
Tyler Jones 		$235		
Aric Williams 		$235		
Steven Harris 		$235		
Jonathan Alston 	$235		
Calen Powell 		$235		
Jesse Lumsden 		$235		
Jonathan Combs 		$235		
Nick McNeil 		$235
bleh, i'll calculate savings and repost in a second to save other people trying this time.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:48 AM   #13
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10
You're right, assuming that we're starting from a roster of 53 players. Which would mean we'd have to replace Cooley and White. But we're not, our roster is huge right now because of the chump FAs we signed in January, guys like Lumsden. They're already figured into the salary cap totals being reported by Clayton et al.
it makes sense either way. you either cut cooley who costs 200k or you dump an extra rookie making at LEAST 235k to clear the extra space. the rookie nets you 35k or more extra space than cooley, so it'd still be a negative cut.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:50 AM   #14
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

I don't like that LaVar makes the most money on our team. His value is way off base.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:20 AM   #15
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case

k, here's the new improved list. anyone whose release results in under 235k savings is untouchable, since it'd cost more to get to X number of warm bodies without them on the roster. I believe you only need 40 guys on the roster right now, but after everything is said and done (draft, FA, undrafted rookies), the skins need 53 guys total at a minimum of 235k each.


I think the practice squad doesn't count against the cap (it has set salaries) so 8 1st or 2nd year guys can still be stashed there if you feel like naming them, but it won't really help the cap problem (shoving 310k guys there instead of 235k guys saves a bit, but the downside is the 310k guys can't actually help your team from the PS)

Code:
	Total savings must be > $21million.

Player			2006 Savings
Walt Harris 		$2,000
Matt Bowen 		$2,000
Brandon Noble 		$1,700
Patrick Ramsey 		$1,688
John Hall 		$1,180
Casey Rabach 		$1,145
Cory Raymer 		$985
James Thrash 		$875
Phillip Daniels 	$800
Jon Jansen 		$794
David Patten 		$647
Tom Tupa 		$601
Pierson Prioleau 	$550
Ladell Betts 		$545
Joe Salave'a 		$504
Mike Sellers 		$495
Marcus Washington 	$490
Derrick Dockery 	$460
Karon Riley 		$460 (445)
Ethan Albright 		$460 (445)
Derrick Frost 		$460 (445)
Antonio Brown 		$460 (445)
Jimmy Farris 		$460 (445)
Renaldo Wynn 		$396
Lemar Marshall 		$396
Jim Molinaro 		$385
Ryan Boschetti 		$385
Jashon Sykes 		$385
Kerry Carter 		$385
Ron Johnson 		$385
Curry Burns 		$385
James Bethea 		$310
Nic Clemons 		$310
Robert McCune 		$310
Robert Johnson 		$310
Christian Morton 	$310
Ikechuku Ndukwe 	$310
Dimitri Patterson 	$310
Ataveus Cash 		$310
LaShaun Ward 		$310
Richard Smith 		$310
Casey Bramlet 		$310
Jim Jones 		$310
Aki Jones 		$310
Nehemiah Broughton 	$296
Chris Samuels 		$286
Sean Guthrie 		$235
Jonta Woodard 		$235
Tyler Jones 		$235
Aric Williams 		$235
Steven Harris 		$235
Jonathan Alston 	$235
Calen Powell 		$235
Jesse Lumsden 		$235
Jonathan Combs 		$235
Nick McNeil 		$235


Untouchables:
Chris Cooley 		$221
Taylor Jacobs 		$117
Manuel White Jr. 	$97

Mark Brunell 		$-300
Cornelius Griffin 	$-650
Randy Thomas 		$-736
LaVar Arrington		$-840
Shawn Springs 		$-1,275
Clinton Portis 		$-2,247
Jason Campbell 		$-2,781
Sean Taylor 		$-3,690
Santana Moss 		$-5,140
Carlos Rogers 		$-6,807
Info gathered from:
Salary cap numbers
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