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The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

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Old 03-04-2006, 08:12 PM   #1
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The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

I guess I don't understand the NFLPA's reasoning. The owners are just that, I don't see the employees at Microsoft going to Gates asking for a spare billion. Isn't it Snyder that holds a $600M note for buying the skins, I certainly don't think Arrignton is making any of the debt service payments for Snyder. Where is the player's risk? I don't want to hear injuries, because, if I got paid $1.8M (see below) even for one year, I am sure I could pay off all my debts, buy a nice house, and finish any degree I wanted.

If my math is correct, the salary cap is $95M/team if there are 32 teams that adds up to $3billion in salaries. I have NO sympathy for someone threating management when the average salary is $1.8M ($95M/52 players). I am sure my math is not exact, but I don't think I am too far off.

This is just greed, down and dirty greed. The players need to get their head our of their respective *sses and realize the mathematics of the industry they happen to be a part of. If they push it, there will be the have and have nots, and the average salary will probably go down. Worst, they could have a Hockey type of lockout.

I think this is Upshaw's :smashfrea doing, from the eralier article from the Minnesota center, it seems that NOT all the players know what's going on, or have all the facts. Upshaw has got to have BIG BRASS ONES, to negotiate someonelse's salary with the risk of coming away with nothing.

just my 2 cents (NOT millions)
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:42 PM   #2
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy

Right now the labor dispute isn't based on the players being greedy. Rather, the owners are fighting amongst themselves as to 1) how to define gross revenues, and 2) how much "cash over cap" should be allowed. Thus the fight is between the super-rich owners and their even richer counterparts.

In any event, I don't have the slightest sympathy for any party that is even remotely involved. The owners are the richest of them all and while they put up the dough to buy the franchise, they don't sweat or shed blood on Sundays. The players are extremely well paid.
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:53 PM   #3
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

no sympathy for anyone here either. just too much greed for me.

I don't even care what they decide at this point, I just want an answer.
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:05 PM   #4
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

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Originally Posted by lifetimeskin
I guess I don't understand the NFLPA's reasoning. The owners are just that, I don't see the employees at Microsoft going to Gates asking for a spare billion. Isn't it Snyder that holds a $600M note for buying the skins, I certainly don't think Arrignton is making any of the debt service payments for Snyder. Where is the player's risk? I don't want to hear injuries, because, if I got paid $1.8M (see below) even for one year, I am sure I could pay off all my debts, buy a nice house, and finish any degree I wanted.

If my math is correct, the salary cap is $95M/team if there are 32 teams that adds up to $3billion in salaries. I have NO sympathy for someone threating management when the average salary is $1.8M ($95M/52 players). I am sure my math is not exact, but I don't think I am too far off.

This is just greed, down and dirty greed. The players need to get their head our of their respective *sses and realize the mathematics of the industry they happen to be a part of. If they push it, there will be the have and have nots, and the average salary will probably go down. Worst, they could have a Hockey type of lockout.

I think this is Upshaw's :smashfrea doing, from the eralier article from the Minnesota center, it seems that NOT all the players know what's going on, or have all the facts. Upshaw has got to have BIG BRASS ONES, to negotiate someonelse's salary with the risk of coming away with nothing.

just my 2 cents (NOT millions)
That's the most absurd argument I have ever heard. Are you seriously 40? Arrington has his own dept to pay. Those nice rides and mansions don't pay for themselves. And you can't compare your average Joe to NFL players. That's just stupid. If Microsoft isn't paying you enough you can jump ship to Google or Yahoo or whatever company is hiring and make more. If I want make the most money as football player there is only the NFL.
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:16 PM   #5
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

No one forces them to bye exspensive houses and cars. If they spent money wisley not on all excess they dont need they could live off their money for years. I only make 25,000 a yera and manage to pay all my bills. If owners didnt pay for stadiums and teams would be no NFL. Is alot easier to replace a player than an owner. I could never go to my boss and tell him what he is gonna pay me or I will not come to work. I would be fired. Players today are spoiled and pampered. Go back to the early days of the league they did not make loads of cash but they loved the game. If they whine cause they only make a million dollars then they need to realize how privaliged they are.
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:21 PM   #6
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

Lifetimeskin I would have to agree with you. The owners and the players are both being too greedy. However, the players may not only be greedy, but stupid also. History has shown that the owners hold the upper hand in these negotiations (they have been able to lock out the players before, get cheap replacements, and recover to become the most financially fit league in the world.) If the players had paid more attention in school, they might realize that history tends to repeat itself.

This union rep, Upshaw, seems like he's not even in touch with his constituents. Right now, he's playing with money that's not even his to lose. He may be royally screwing the people he's supposed to be helping, only time will tell.
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:40 PM   #7
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

Saden1-

What "dept" is Arrington buying? Is it an apartment or department?? Absurd??? Who are you kidding? I note your wide knowledge of finance. If I invest in a venture, why shouldn't I keep the fruits of such a venture? I took the risk. Have you ever heard of capitalism? Maybe even have departments within my venture.

Your argument about "only one NFL" is so obvious. Enlighten us please. We all know there is only one NFL, but if a player doens't f**king like it, go to the Canadian Football League. The Microsoft example was (and is) valid, just like there is one top dog in football, there is only one Microsoft. Have you in your infinite wisdom forgotten that UNLIKE the NFL, Microsoft was sued by the Justice Department, under the antitrust laws. Not once but TWICE!

I can compare an average Joe to an NFL player, when both are in a union. A union to help an average Joe with health benefits, retirement, and maybe moving from $15/hr to $20/hr is something that most people can relate to, maybe you can't, but many can. I canít blame the union for asking for more for their players, but NOT at the risk of coming away with less!

I am 40, how was recess yesterday?
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:54 PM   #8
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

I am not blaming anyone for the tone of this thread or pointing fingers, but please keep it civil. If you can't refrain from personally attacking your "opponent," don't post at all, chill out, and come back when tempers have cooled. This is supposed to be a place to debate the merits of various opinions, not debate who has the biggest ----.

BTW, I have the biggest ----.
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:59 PM   #9
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifetimeskin
Saden1-

What "dept" is Arrington buying? Is it an apartment or department?? Absurd??? Who are you kidding? I note your wide knowledge of finance. If I invest in a venture, why shouldn't I keep the fruits of such a venture? I took the risk. Have you ever heard of capitalism? Maybe even have departments within my venture.

Your argument about "only one NFL" is so obvious. Enlighten us please. We all know there is only one NFL, but if a player doens't f**king like it, go to the Canadian Football League. The Microsoft example was (and is) valid, just like there is one top dog in football, there is only one Microsoft. Have you in your infinite wisdom forgotten that UNLIKE the NFL, Microsoft was sued by the Justice Department, under the antitrust laws. Not once but TWICE!

I can compare an average Joe to an NFL player, when both are in a union. A union to help an average Joe with health benefits, retirement, and maybe moving from $15/hr to $20/hr is something that most people can relate to, maybe you can't, but many can. I canít blame the union for asking for more for their players, but NOT at the risk of coming away with less!

I am 40, how was recess yesterday?
and without a cba, the nfl will be eventually be sued under the anti-trust laws as well.
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Old 03-04-2006, 11:19 PM   #10
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifetimeskin
Saden1-

What "dept" is Arrington buying? Is it an apartment or department?? Absurd??? Who are you kidding? I note your wide knowledge of finance. If I invest in a venture, why shouldn't I keep the fruits of such a venture? I took the risk. Have you ever heard of capitalism? Maybe even have departments within my venture.

Your argument about "only one NFL" is so obvious. Enlighten us please. We all know there is only one NFL, but if a player doens't f**king like it, go to the Canadian Football League. The Microsoft example was (and is) valid, just like there is one top dog in football, there is only one Microsoft. Have you in your infinite wisdom forgotten that UNLIKE the NFL, Microsoft was sued by the Justice Department, under the antitrust laws. Not once but TWICE!

I can compare an average Joe to an NFL player, when both are in a union. A union to help an average Joe with health benefits, retirement, and maybe moving from $15/hr to $20/hr is something that most people can relate to, maybe you can't, but many can. I canít blame the union for asking for more for their players, but NOT at the risk of coming away with less!

I am 40, how was recess yesterday?
If you start a company I agree that you should be able to set the rules for how you manage your money. I as an employee I have the right to maximize my earning. That's capitalism too. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If you want to win and maximize your earnings as an owner, it's in your best interest to field the best players just like it's in the best interest of Microsoft to hire the brightest people. You think the NFL wants to have an anti-trust suits against them? No. Why? Cause they are an illegal entity.

Arrington's money is his money. He can do whatever he wants with it as he EARNED watching vidoes, studying play books and spending countless of hours at the gym. It's not like Arrington is STEALING from Snyder. You make it sound like the players are blackmailing Snyder and et al. If that were true the NFL wouldn't have a CBA to begin with. This is business and everyone has to find mutually satisfactory middle ground.

Last time I checked "if you don't like it, **** off" rarely helps you solve problems. There are many forms of anti-trust. Microsoft's anti trust problems are not out of labor disputes but rather anti competitive activities (killing the competition so to speak). One cannot make comparison between NFL employees and Microsoft employees because Microsoft employees aren't threatening to walkout.

I can't relate to being in a union as I have never been in one. But I do know that the job of a union is not to get screwed in the long run and if that means you hurt a little now so be it. BTW going from $15 to $20 is a 20% increase. The NFL players would be very happy to get 5 percent raise.

I don't know anything about recess but I do know that country folks know nothing about big money. When you do, let me know.
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Old 03-04-2006, 11:27 PM   #11
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

i kinda agree. These idiots that are negotiating should realize that the NFL has a golden goose. Without it, we are just like MLB, NBA, and NHL. they should work above their petty differences for the good of the everyone involved, instead of being such greedy ass bastards.
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Old 03-04-2006, 11:44 PM   #12
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1
I do know that country folks know nothing about big money. When you do, let me know.
Ok, so Saden you think you know more about money than country people because you live in Seattle, and I'm assuming you work in the financial sector. You really have no basis to say that country people know nothing about money. You don't know my financial status, for all you know, I might know a little bit more about big money than you.

I agree with you that players have the right to try and maximize their salaries, as employees. You would have to acknowledge that they run the risk of screwing themselves by pushing it too far (a greater setback than the wealthier owners would experience.) Because of this, the owners have more leverage in the negotiations, and therefore, the players union is the group that I would say is being more greedy, stupid, and wreckless.
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Old 03-04-2006, 11:56 PM   #13
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

lifetimeskin
Give it up. Football is an entertainment bussiness, like movie stars or musicians we pay to see the talent. Certain star individuals are responsible for generating Billions of dollars in sales of Jerseys, shoes, movies, pictures and TV rights.
Stars like Tom Cruise, Angelina Jolie, U2 or Rolling Stones get paid MILLIONS just to show up and do their thing because people want to see THEM.
Same goes for NFL football, I watch football to see the talented players. They are the show. I do not pay to see Dan Snyder or anyother owner. The owners realize that and that is why they pay big salaries to keep certain players.

The players might seems greedy but they just want to be fairly compensted for money they have a big hand in generating. If you, lifetimeskin, singlehandley made your boss $5 million in revenue because of your work and your boss sells your picture and jersey number and makes another $5million, do you feel you should be getting a portion of the $10 million? You better.
Microsoft is a terrible comparison because Bill Gates and a handful of bright computer geeks were the firsts to patent an operating system (windows) that revolutionized the computer world. Bill Gates generated this income by producing and patenting Windows, not some average Joe that works for him. See the difference?
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:00 AM   #14
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

I think the union is being the most stupid, and the owners the most greedy. The point of the CBA (from the union's perspective) isn't to protect the top-paid athletes. The goal is to protect the sub-median athletes. For example, the 3rd round rookies making the league minimum, or the vets making the vet-minimum. The CBA protects things like retirement accounts and health benefits.

I wouldn't focus on the average salary - the mean salary is the more important figure. I think it's around $700-$800k. It's still a lot, even if you take into account the ~5 year average NFL career (over $100k/year). However, it isn't that much given the lifestyle these guys try to live.
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:18 AM   #15
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Re: The CBA: The NFLPA and Players Are Greedy and/or Dumb

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Ok, so Saden you think you know more about money than country people because you live in Seattle, and I'm assuming you work in the financial sector. You really have no basis to say that country people know nothing about money. You don't know my financial status, for all you know, I might know a little bit more about big money than you.

I agree with you that players have the right to try and maximize their salaries, as employees. You would have to acknowledge that they run the risk of screwing themselves by pushing it too far (a greater setback than the wealthier owners would experience.) Because of this, the owners have more leverage in the negotiations, and therefore, the players union is the group that I would say is being more greedy, stupid, and wreckless.
I know country folk, and while country folk care about paying their rent and bills like everyone else there is a difference between country folk and non-county folk. The big difference being the fact that they think 500K for a house is a lot. They don't care what kind of house it is or where it is located. The truth is once you get beyond a certain monetary amount country folks will be overwhelmed. They can't grasp the value of money in relation to the value of property, the cost of goods and lifestyle. Most of the current players are country folks who have worked hard to earn their keep. Some players have grasped the value of money while others are still country and are spending it as if it's monopoly money.

I don't know your financial status nor do I care. I will say this though, one's speech on money matters can hint at the financial status. My family has gone from very rich to dirt poor to middle class. I know the value of money and what matters is making enough money to live the life you want. All I am saying is that no one has the right to call someone else greedy for trying to negotiate for better wages.

As for who has the upper hand, well the NFL players of course. If they didn't they wouldn't be getting the bigger percentage of the revenue right now.
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