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This is why Gibbs philosophy works

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Old 03-14-2006, 11:33 PM   #1
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This is why Gibbs philosophy works

The Redskins are being built ready to win with top quality high draft picks through free agency. Yes we are trading alot of our picks each year, but we are trading them for young proven players ready to produce. See the line-up below...

REDSKINS OFFENSE

76 Jon Jansen 2nd-round of 1999 (37th overall) NFL Draft.
77 Randy Thomas 2nd round of 1999 (57th overall) NFL Draft.
61 Casey Rabach 3rd round of 2001 (92nd overall) NFL Draft
66 Derrick Dockery 3rd round in 2003 (81st overall) NFL Draft.
60 Chris Samuels 1st round of 2000 (3rd overall) NFL Draft
47 Chris Cooley 3rd round in 2004 (81st overall) NFL Draft.

89 Santana Moss 1st round of 2001 (16th overall) NFL Draft.
85 Brandon Lloyd 4th round of 2003 (123rd overall) NFL Draft.
82 Antwaan Randle El 2nd round of 2002 (62nd overall) NFL Draft.

17 Jason Campbell 1st round of 2005 (25th overall) NFL Draft.

26 Clinton Portis 2nd round of 2002 (51st overall) NFL Draft.
46 Ladell Betts 2nd round of 2002 (56th overall) NFL Draft.



REDSKINS DEFENSE

98 Andre Carter 1st round of 2001 (7th overall) NFL Draft.
96 Cornelius Griffin 2nd round of 2000 (43rd overall) NFL Draft.
95 Joe Salave'a 4th round of 1998 (107th overall) NFL Draft.
93 Phillip Daniels 4th round of 1996 (99th overall) NFL Draft.
97 Renaldo Wynn 1st round of 1997 (21st overall) NFL Draft.

53 Marcus Washington 2nd round of 2000 (59th overall) NFL Draft.
98 Lemar Marshall undrafted Free Agent 1999
59 Robert McCune 5th round of 2005 (154th overall) NFL Draft.
50 Khary Campbell undrafted Free Agent 2001

24 Shawn Springs 1st Round in 1997 (3rd overall) NFL Draft.
22 Carlos Rogers 1st Round in 2005 (9th overall) NFL Draft.
21 Sean Taylor 1st Round in 2004 (5th overall) NFL Draft.
41 Adam Archuleta 1st Round in 2001 (20th overall) NFL Draft.

Total Draft Breakdown

1996 (1) 4th Rnd Pick
1997 (2) 1st Rnd Picks
1998 (1) 4th Rnd Pick
1999 (2) 2nd Rnd Picks
2000 (1) 1st Rnd Pick, (2) 2nd Rnd Picks
2001 (3) 1st Rnd Pick, (1) 3rd Rnd Pick
2002 (3) 2nd Rnd Picks
2003 (1) 3rd Rnd Pick, (1) 4th Rnd Pick
2004 (1) 1st Rnd Pick, (1) 3rd Rnd Pick
2005 (2) 1st Rnd Pick
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:05 AM   #2
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

Like I been saying!!! He uses draft ,free agents and tradesd
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:45 AM   #3
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

Great post man,

I love our secondary, all 1st rounders, with springs the highest corner ever chosen (i think, maybe charles woodson was a #2) and taylor the highest safety ever chosen
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:13 AM   #4
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

i'd still like to see the redskins pick up someone in the second day of the draft that could provide an impact to some extent rather than being fodder. The eagles got defensive end trent cole in the fifth round last year, using the pick we sent to them for james thrash.
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:04 AM   #5
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

heath shuler was a first round pick.

draft order means nothing once you start playing. And its perfectly possible to build through FA, but anyone you draft is much cheaper. (S Taylor - 7 year, 18mill; archuleta, 6 year, 30mill... which one would you rather have if they cost the same? and how much is he costing us again?).
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Old 03-15-2006, 05:08 AM   #6
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

Great post Dana87!!

Looking at the draft pick situation I say that we still manage to find some pretty decent value from the picks we do have. I think Chris Cooley stands as a pretty good example of this.

I guess, overall, draft picks are given to choose the best player available, not a certain position because there are so many busts. Sometimes the best (or maybe surest is a better word) player is not in the draft, but rather in free agency, so we get the most value out of the draft picks by trading them away for a player.

With that said...it would be nice to get a good rookie here in Washington...
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Old 03-15-2006, 09:25 AM   #7
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

it's interesting you bring that up. It seems more and more HIGH$$$$$$$$$$$ picks don't work out (ex. Kellen jr). Gibb's (always the innovator) is shortcutting the process. he uses his draft picks to trade for PROVEN FA's. Joe knows
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Old 03-15-2006, 10:03 AM   #8
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hog1
it's interesting you bring that up. It seems more and more HIGH$$$$$$$$$$$ picks don't work out (ex. Kellen jr). Gibb's (always the innovator) is shortcutting the process. he uses his draft picks to trade for PROVEN FA's. Joe knows
the downside is that its much more expensive :/
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Old 03-15-2006, 11:02 AM   #9
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy
heath shuler was a first round pick.

draft order means nothing once you start playing. And its perfectly possible to build through FA, but anyone you draft is much cheaper. (S Taylor - 7 year, 18mill; archuleta, 6 year, 30mill... which one would you rather have if they cost the same? and how much is he costing us again?).
I couldn't agree more that Heath Shuler is a great example that draft order doesn't matter (I'd also like to add Desmond Howard). Of course, no discussion of this topic is complete without the words Ryan Leaf.

Conversely, one thing that is different in this FA signing season from other Skins spending sprees is that every major signing (sorry, a blocking TE isn't) is for someone who is entering their FIRST FA year. We are going after guys entering their prime instead of exiting it (ala B. Smith, D. Sanders, the list goes on etc.).

That said, I'd like to play devil's advocate here against the conventional wisdom that championship teams are built through the draft and make a radical suggestion:

You get better value in FA and trades than you do from a first round pick -- especially at the QB position (assuming the FA is entering his prime).

Over the next three years, which QBs are more likely to have better success? The combination of Brees and Culpepper or the combination of Leinhart or Young?

Chances are, at least one of the top 2 QBs drafted are going to flame out. With Brees and Culpepper, you have some injury worries, but you pretty much know what you have and the probabilities say they will have more success at QB.

You used the example of Taylor vs. Arch. What percentage chance is there that Taylor is convicted? That is actually the percentage chance that Taylor will prove to be the most expensive, not the cheapest of the two safeties.

Look at QB. What are the odds that Campbell is the real deal? Is it 1 in 5, 1 in 4, 1 in 3? Take that number and multiply his salary by that. He got paid for doing nothing last year, so factor that in. Is he really a good dollar value?

All that being said, I am playing devil's advocate here. I don't hate the draft and I actually do think the draft has to be a piece of building a championship team. But what I am trying to do is to throw a little cold water on the conventional wisdom.
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Old 03-15-2006, 11:36 AM   #10
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiggoRules
I couldn't agree more that Heath Shuler is a great example that draft order doesn't matter (I'd also like to add Desmond Howard). Of course, no discussion of this topic is complete without the words Ryan Leaf.

Conversely, one thing that is different in this FA signing season from other Skins spending sprees is that every major signing (sorry, a blocking TE isn't) is for someone who is entering their FIRST FA year. We are going after guys entering their prime instead of exiting it (ala B. Smith, D. Sanders, the list goes on etc.).

That said, I'd like to play devil's advocate here against the conventional wisdom that championship teams are built through the draft and make a radical suggestion:

You get better value in FA and trades than you do from a first round pick -- especially at the QB position (assuming the FA is entering his prime).

Over the next three years, which QBs are more likely to have better success? The combination of Brees and Culpepper or the combination of Leinhart or Young?

Chances are, at least one of the top 2 QBs drafted are going to flame out. With Brees and Culpepper, you have some injury worries, but you pretty much know what you have and the probabilities say they will have more success at QB.

You used the example of Taylor vs. Arch. What percentage chance is there that Taylor is convicted? That is actually the percentage chance that Taylor will prove to be the most expensive, not the cheapest of the two safeties.

Look at QB. What are the odds that Campbell is the real deal? Is it 1 in 5, 1 in 4, 1 in 3? Take that number and multiply his salary by that. He got paid for doing nothing last year, so factor that in. Is he really a good dollar value?

All that being said, I am playing devil's advocate here. I don't hate the draft and I actually do think the draft has to be a piece of building a championship team. But what I am trying to do is to throw a little cold water on the conventional wisdom.
rogers and taylor are much cheaper than arch and springs... at QB or RB I wouldn't draft them high unless i had to. Good RBs are available in the 2nd round (portis). QB, WR, and DE tend to have the worst chances of working out. bust DEs tend to still be okay or provide depth when they don't live up to the hype, whereas the QBs and WRs end up being completely worthless a lot of times.

I agree that throwing money in the form of LONG term contracts at young guys is a good idea. the problem with older guys (30+) is you end up paying for the production of their best years which they can't possibly replicate. With young guys (lloyd/moss) you pay slightly more than what their past production is worth to lock them in long term (which is really a hedged bet that they're going to outplay their contract in a big way, and give you great production for the dollar).
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:17 PM   #11
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Re: This is why Gibbs philosophy works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hog1
it's interesting you bring that up. It seems more and more HIGH$$$$$$$$$$$ picks don't work out (ex. Kellen jr). Gibb's (always the innovator) is shortcutting the process. he uses his draft picks to trade for PROVEN FA's. Joe knows
I don't want to take anything away from Joe. But the concept of using draft picks to trade for FAs was being implemented by the Redskins before Gibbs came. Trading picks for guys like Trung (um well that didn't work out so great) and Lav Coles, among others. So maybe Snyder knows the process? or Cerrato?
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