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Old 02-24-2004, 09:54 AM   #31
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I wouldn't mind giving up Champ and a second rounder for Portis. Champ is basically gone and though I'd hate to lose the 2nd rounder, it would be well worth it.

If we were to trade Champ to Detroit for their 1st and 2nd (which they are balking at), I highly doubt that we would get two players equal in value to Portis. Plus, we're going to spend tons of money on a players drafted #6 overall (probably close to what we'd spend on Portis). Third, there is no guarantee that the players we draft will be decent. They could end up being overpaid washouts. Fourth, Portis is very, very young (22) and he's got years left before he hits his peak. Finally, there are a number of decent corners that could adequately fill the void left by Champ.

Go for the trade and get some good defensive players in free agency.
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Old 02-24-2004, 10:39 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
I wouldn't mind giving up Champ and a second rounder for Portis. Champ is basically gone and though I'd hate to lose the 2nd rounder, it would be well worth it.

If we were to trade Champ to Detroit for their 1st and 2nd (which they are balking at), I highly doubt that we would get two players equal in value to Portis. Plus, we're going to spend tons of money on a players drafted #6 overall (probably close to what we'd spend on Portis). Third, there is no guarantee that the players we draft will be decent. They could end up being overpaid washouts. Fourth, Portis is very, very young (22) and he's got years left before he hits his peak. Finally, there are a number of decent corners that could adequately fill the void left by Champ.

Go for the trade and get some good defensive players in free agency.
Portis's age is a big deal here. We've talked about drafting a player, but Portis has NFL experience - unmatched by most everyone (3000 yards in two years), and is only a year older than Kevin Jones, and two years older than Steven Jackson. "Can't miss" is an overused phrase, so I'm trying to think up a better one. I'll let you know if I do.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:03 AM   #33
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Latest Word.....I may like the Jets offer more.

(9:00 AM): Bailey-Portis deal "all but done"...At least that's what sources in Denver are saying regarding a proposed trade that would send Pro Bowl Denver RB Clinton Portis to Washington in exchange for Pro Bowl CB Champ Bailey and the Redskins' second round pick at the 2004 draft. According to the source, the two teams have settled on the compensation. Now both teams are feverishly trying to work new contract deals with the respective players. Denver, which is tight to the cap could have the harder time fitting Bailey, who has already rejected a 9-year, $55M, including a $15M signing bonus, from the Redskins. In fact, sources in Washington are a little more guarded in their optimism about a deal getting done. The Redskins are talking with Portis about a contract extension, but are still taking offers for Bailey from other teams just in case. The Jets, for example, have reportedly offered the Redskins Pro Bowl DE Shaun Ellis, RB LaMont Jordan and TE Anthony Becht to Washington for Bailey, RB Ladell Betts and that #2 pick.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:06 AM   #34
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That Jets offer actually sounds good. We get a DE and TE, and we could work some other trades to get more picks and get a good RB (I don't see Jordan as better than a backup) too.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:09 AM   #35
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I don't like the Jets trade at all.

Betts for Jordan - okay that's a push (neither has lived up to the hype)
Becht for high 2nd roudner - okay that's a push
Ellis for Bailey-Ellis is a very good player and is coming on but he is not worth anything close to Bailey
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:11 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecrisp
The drama just never stops this offseason does it?

I love the idea of getting Portis, a back of his caliber could do some extraordinary things in a Gibbs offense.

What I don't like is the idea of giving up a 2nd round pick-- in addition to Bailey-- to get Portis.

When you consider the fact that Portis has compiled his stats in Shanahan's Denver offense-- which produced so many 1,000 yard seasons with other runningbacks, while Bailey has been a defensive stalwart under so many different defensive coordinators and schemes, hasn't missed a single game, and has 4 Pro Bowls to his name; it's hard to fathom giving up anything additional-- especially a 2nd round pick-- in a trade.

I just feel like the Redskins are getting the short end of the stick in their haste to deal Bailey by March 3rd. The irony of all of this is that with Gibbs' return, we expected to see a more measured, conservative approach to offseason acquisitions. The reality is that Gibbs' return seems to have brought about a more frenetic pace and tone to what was already known as one of the most hyperactive front offices in the league.

My sentiments exactly...
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:12 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
I don't like the Jets trade at all.

Betts for Jordan - okay that's a push (neither has lived up to the hype)
Becht for high 2nd roudner - okay that's a push
Ellis for Bailey-Ellis is a very good player and is coming on but he is not worth anything close to Bailey
We're getting shafted in that proposal.

Jordan is a slight upgrade - in terms of durability. There aren't five TE's in the league worth trading away a high second rounder for - the potential of the pick is more valuable. Ellis for Bailey is laughable.

The Jets are trying to make their fans forget about Coles, Hall, Thomas, and Morton leaving by sticking us.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:13 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
I don't like the Jets trade at all.

Betts for Jordan - okay that's a push (neither has lived up to the hype)
Becht for high 2nd roudner - okay that's a push
Ellis for Bailey-Ellis is a very good player and is coming on but he is not worth anything close to Bailey
In re-reading it I agree. If they dropped the 2nd rounder to a 5th or lower, or no pick at all, I'd go for it.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:26 AM   #39
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I concur

The Jets offer may not be the best in the world, but I sure do like that the Skins weren't so quick to just run with the Portis - Bailey & 2nd round pick trade. Here are a few of my concerns....

A) Portis has certainly shown that he can run the ball, but as many folks have stated (both here on the board, and all over the news), there haven't been many RBs in Denver recently that haven't been able to run the ball.

B) The proposed trade with Denver fills one hole on the Skins team, opens up another (albeit an inevitable hole.....Chump is gone), but most importantly, that trade leaves us with little room to improve the many other areas on the team that are in need of improvement. Portis will undoubtedly sign a big contract (perhaps long term, which may lighten the cap hit a bit, but I'm sure it will still be a decent hit), so the Skins will still have some cap issues. Plus, with yet another draft pick gone, we'll be forced to go to the FA market, which is typically filled with guys who want more money, or are past their prime. At least the Jets trade would fill improve on a couple of positions.

C) And this one, I must admit, I'm not really "in the know" about.....but from what I've heard, Portis is a young kid with a huge chip on his shoulder. Several of his former prisonmates/teammates (at Miami, I'm not sure which term they use ;-) have expressed some displeasure with Portis' attitude....namely Willis McGahee & Jeremy Shockey.

Again, I'm not saying that the Jets offer is the one we should accept, but I do like that they're still out there shopping. Is yet another "superstar" the answer?? I sure wish they'd talk to Buffalo about possibly working out some blockbuster deal to get Travis Henry & Antoine Winfield for Bailey, Betts, and perhaps a few other options to sweeten the pot. That would give us yet another great DB, plus a money RB.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:56 AM   #40
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Jeremy Shockey comlained about someones attitude?!?
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:57 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemotay
C) And this one, I must admit, I'm not really "in the know" about.....but from what I've heard, Portis is a young kid with a huge chip on his shoulder. Several of his former prisonmates/teammates (at Miami, I'm not sure which term they use ;-) have expressed some displeasure with Portis' attitude....namely Willis McGahee & Jeremy Shockey.
Somehow, not getting Shockey vote of approval raises Portis in my estimation.

Does Portis have an attitude? Sure seems like it, but he's walked the walk. 1591 and 14 TD's in thirteen games last year. 1508 and 14 TD as a rookie. A career 5.5 YPC.

His attitude isn't anti-team, it's pro Portis. I've never heard him say he wants to make more than Plummer, or Smith, or whoever - he wants to make more. I have to assume the Redskins are willing to address his desires if they'll make this deal.
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Old 02-24-2004, 12:11 PM   #42
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there is one more scenario that seems to have slipped through the cracks, namely the Skins are using this time to determine Champ's market value and then adjust their offer accordingly.

While I'm in favor of trading Champ for Portis, the inclusion of a 2nd round pick is a bit much. Portis is a stud, no doubt, but Champ Bailey is no slouch. He's been to 4 Pro Bowls for a reason, and somebody is going to let him touch the ball on offense and special teams and see how special of a player he really is.

I'd love to have Portis in the backfield next season, Michael Wilbon in the washingtonpost says that it's easier to find a franchise back than a shutdown corner. Need proof, Stephen Davis 4th round pick, Priest Holmes undrafted and even Clinton Portis, 2nd round pick. I'd much rather keep Champ and try to find a back in the draft with our 2nd round pick. But I like Redskins, not imports.
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Old 02-24-2004, 12:27 PM   #43
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Keep in mind that Portis faced The Raiders (worst Rushing D in the entire NFL), the Chiefs (3rd worst Rushing D in the NFL) and the Chargers (one better than the Skins as far as rushing D.....and we all know how poorly the Skins did against the run) twice a year. I'm sure there's the old "chicken/egg" question too.....did he post great #s because he went against crummy rush D's, or did those teams have such poor stats due to facing a stud RB twice a year. Of course, all of those teams had to face LT & Priest Holmes twice a year too, so there are tons of questions to be answered. I will say that against Baltimore and New England, Portis put up a mere 86 yards and 111 yards respectively.
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Old 02-24-2004, 12:31 PM   #44
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86 yards against the Ravens and 111 yards against the Pats ain't bad at all.
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Old 02-24-2004, 12:34 PM   #45
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I love Champ, but Postis is just what Coach Gibbs wants running his ground attack!
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