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Old 02-24-2004, 01:39 PM   #46
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When you consider that the "strong" combination of Marcel Shipp & Jeff Blake in Arizona rushed for more than that against the Ravens, I'd say that it ain't all that great either. Portis is being made out to be the next Walter Payton after only 2 years (versus perhaps the worst Rush D division in the league). To me, that's not worth Champ Bailey & a 2nd rounder.
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Old 02-24-2004, 02:45 PM   #47
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Middle of last season the argument was "best back: Portis, Holmes, or Lewis?"
If you have a chance to get any player discussed in that argument, essentially for a player that already plans on skipping out, for less money (initially) I think it's a no-brainer.

As soon as we start breaking down how he did against specific teams, then i think we're just looking for weaknesses. But the facts and figures all point to Portis being a top 3 back for most of his career.

I'm not cool w/ handing over the 2nd round pick either, but in my opinion this is another example of Shanahan's arrogance, presupposing that anyone can take Portis' place, and basically punishing Portis for wanting to secure his future NOW, after 2 1500 yd seasons when he was making nothing (by NFL standards).
I've never liked Shanahan. He's the Teflon coach. He gets too much credit for Denver's success, and too little blame for their failures. Take him to the cleaners on this one. Letting Portis go is 100% foolish.
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Old 02-24-2004, 03:01 PM   #48
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2 seasons is hardly a career. He's done VERY well in those 2 years, but against very poor rush defenses. If he's as good as he thinks he is, however, then I say sign him up to a contract that is incentive laden. He'd undoubtedly be the starter, and would get the carries, so I say, give him big time bonuses for TDs and 1500+ rushing yards. Again, if he's as good as he (and many of you) say he is, those accomplishments (and the bonuses) should be easy to attain. My guess is that he's too cocky to accept something like that....he wants guaranteed big $$$. As a long time Skins fan who's been burned time and time again, I'm a bit skeptical about how "great" of a steal this would be.
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Old 02-24-2004, 03:49 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemotay
2 seasons is hardly a career. He's done VERY well in those 2 years, but against very poor rush defenses. If he's as good as he thinks he is, however, then I say sign him up to a contract that is incentive laden. He'd undoubtedly be the starter, and would get the carries, so I say, give him big time bonuses for TDs and 1500+ rushing yards. Again, if he's as good as he (and many of you) say he is, those accomplishments (and the bonuses) should be easy to attain. My guess is that he's too cocky to accept something like that....he wants guaranteed big $$$. As a long time Skins fan who's been burned time and time again, I'm a bit skeptical about how "great" of a steal this would be.
3000 yards is a career - for any back on our roster. As for Portis (or any player wanting guaranteed dollars, "duh". Is Coles's contract an impediment to his ability? He certainly got a guarantee in the form of his signing bonus - something we should certainly expect here, as well. If this trade happens, expect a similar deal to Laveraneus (7yrs/$35mil/$13mil bonus). It will put Portis in the elite, where he wants to be.
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Old 02-24-2004, 04:36 PM   #50
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Portis right now is one of the top 5 best backs in the NFL and is only just getting started. I would pull the trigger on this deal in a second.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:18 PM   #51
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Get him. period.

He's young, talented, and wants to win.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:29 PM   #52
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I think a lot are missing the big picture here...

Let's say that the deal is done...Portis for Bailey and 2nd Rounder. Ok, so we have a stud RB...however, we have a huge hold in our secondary. You can't draft Sean Taylor at #5 now because he doesn't play Corner, and still have a need on the DLine. This could have easily been Stephen Jackson or Kevin Jones...

Look at the UFA CBs that are any good...Antoine Winfield, Terrell Buckley, Chris McAllister, Charles Woodson, Mario Edwards, Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, Juran Bolden, Fred Thomas, Ahmed Plummer, Shawn Springs. Ok, most of these guys are going back to their teams with new deals. However, the only CBs that would be able to hold Champ's jock are Taylor and Vincent...and one of them will resign with the Eagles. Woodson and Springs are head cases, McAllister will probably go back to the Ravens...and the rest would be a significant downgrade to Bailey.

I understand that Champ is as good as gone...but make a case to assure that you get someone of quality to replace him. Unless one of these UFAs are talking to the Skins, the Skins shouldn't be so ready to deal Bailey outta here.

The Jets deal is better than most of you think...if Bailey's gone anyways, what does it matter who we get for him, as long as it's quality.

Ellis is a very respectible DE. He's a pass rusher (something we need). Jordan is a major upgrade from Betts. He's been behind Curtis Martin, and the Jets O-Line was terrible last year (i wonder why)... Anthony Becht may or may not be worth a 2nd round pick, but is a solid TE, who catches and blocks. Jordan might be older, but would be a decent back.

However, with any deal, we still need to replace Bailey. Losing that 2nd round pick makes our draft pretty much non-existant...watch for the Skins to fall from the #5 to pick up other picks.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:38 PM   #53
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But remember that, assuming they bolster the D-line so we actually have a pass rush, we don't need a CB of Champ's caliber. Also, yes Taylor is not a CB, but drafting him would definitely bring the secondary as a whole back up to a very strong level, even with an average CB replacing Champ.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:50 PM   #54
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Arrow

i heard just a few secs ago on espn news,that the new york football jets are offering up 3 players for champ.anDL named ellis,and 2 others.but apparently the skins want more.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:39 PM   #55
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Ya the 3 guys they mentioned are Ellis, Becht and Lamont Jordan.
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Old 02-24-2004, 06:51 PM   #56
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Just saw on ESPN that it's pretty much a done deal. Both teams have to rework new contracts for Portis and Bailey but they believe it will happen. They said the Skins are getting the short end of the stick in the trade but Bailey wasn't going to come back anyway so they are gettin the best deal they can to get rid of Champ. Damn!!! I just got my daughter a Champ throwback jersey for her birthday. Maybe a Lavar jersey now, at least he should be around for awhile.
Glad to have the Warpath back again. I was getting worried, and bored stiff checking out the other sites. This one is Numero Uno!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-24-2004, 07:06 PM   #57
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i just saw where fatass peter king is gonna be on pti.i hope tony and wilburn fry his overweight ugly a$$.
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Old 02-24-2004, 07:49 PM   #58
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Maybe I'm just delusional with excitement over Portis, but I think this is an incredible deal for the Skins.. They are getting someone who will be a top 5-10 back for the next 5-8 years (barring injury of course).. Granted they are giving up one of the top 3 CB in the league, but who impacts the game more every Sunday? The RB gets 20-25 touches a game, a CB is involved in 7-8 plays on a busy day.. It's going to be hard for someone to convince me that a secondary of Bailey, Smoot, Ohalete and Bowen is better than Smoot, Springs or Winfield, Ohalete and Sean Taylor (who they'll draft at 5). Remember the impact Roy Williams of the (ugh) Cowboys had his first year, we should, he scored 2 TD on us! I would like for us to still have the 2nd round pick, but if that's what it takes then that's what it takes. We didn't play anyone with elite receivers in the division anyway so it's not like we need a shutdown corner 8 games a year. If we were in the Rams division, then it'd be more of a premium.. Cowboys-ball control, Eagles-west coast ball control, Giants-ball control under Coughlin.. A couple Snyder special signings and we should be good to go!
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Old 02-24-2004, 08:16 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BDBohnzie
I think a lot are missing the big picture here...

Let's say that the deal is done...Portis for Bailey and 2nd Rounder. Ok, so we have a stud RB...however, we have a huge hold in our secondary. You can't draft Sean Taylor at #5 now because he doesn't play Corner, and still have a need on the DLine. This could have easily been Stephen Jackson or Kevin Jones...

Look at the UFA CBs that are any good...Antoine Winfield, Terrell Buckley, Chris McAllister, Charles Woodson, Mario Edwards, Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, Juran Bolden, Fred Thomas, Ahmed Plummer, Shawn Springs. Ok, most of these guys are going back to their teams with new deals. However, the only CBs that would be able to hold Champ's jock are Taylor and Vincent...and one of them will resign with the Eagles. Woodson and Springs are head cases, McAllister will probably go back to the Ravens...and the rest would be a significant downgrade to Bailey.

I understand that Champ is as good as gone...but make a case to assure that you get someone of quality to replace him. Unless one of these UFAs are talking to the Skins, the Skins shouldn't be so ready to deal Bailey outta here.

The Jets deal is better than most of you think...if Bailey's gone anyways, what does it matter who we get for him, as long as it's quality.

Ellis is a very respectible DE. He's a pass rusher (something we need). Jordan is a major upgrade from Betts. He's been behind Curtis Martin, and the Jets O-Line was terrible last year (i wonder why)... Anthony Becht may or may not be worth a 2nd round pick, but is a solid TE, who catches and blocks. Jordan might be older, but would be a decent back.

However, with any deal, we still need to replace Bailey. Losing that 2nd round pick makes our draft pretty much non-existant...watch for the Skins to fall from the #5 to pick up other picks.

Well said Bohnzie. Too few people on this board aren't looking at the big picture. A trade for Portis fills one need, and creates another...so that's a wash. It also does little to help with Cap relief. Gibbs is known for getting the most out of all of his players. He's been very highly respected by his players, and they go to bat for him. There are very few of his former players who'll make it into the hall of fame, and that's because he didn't believe in basing his game plan around one or 2 allstars.

As for Coles' contract, it's a done deal, and we'll have to live with it. That doesn't mean we should do it again!! Deion Sanders wanted to be paid up front too, and look where that got us. Those who think the Skins can afford to pay him big $$$ (in addition to already paying Arrington, Coles, Samuels, Brunnell and perhaps in a year or two Ramsey) must know something that I don't. Is the salary cap projected to go above 100 million in the next couple of years??

I'd still go with the Jets offer over Portis. Lamont Jordan runs a 4.29 40 and has Jamal Lewis size. Becht is a good (not great) TE, and like Jordan, can't really command the big bucks. Ellis, on the other hand would be a HUGE bolster to our D Line. Portis just isn't worth it unless Denver is willing to do an even swap for Bailey alone.....or if they "sweeten the pot" a bit.
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Old 02-24-2004, 08:59 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemotay
I'd still go with the Jets offer over Portis. Lamont Jordan runs a 4.29 40 and has Jamal Lewis size. Becht is a good (not great) TE, and like Jordan, can't really command the big bucks. Ellis, on the other hand would be a HUGE bolster to our D Line. Portis just isn't worth it unless Denver is willing to do an even swap for Bailey alone.....or if they "sweeten the pot" a bit.
I don't think Jordan runs a 4.29 30 yard dash, dude is slow.. Plus, all the guys the Jets offered are in the final year of their contract so we'd be renting all of them or having to pay a WHOLE lot more money out to re-sign them..
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