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Bauman, Russell, Betts: Wasted Picks?

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Old 05-20-2004, 01:09 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmanc711
......In addition, wasent the whole buzz around our first mini-camp was that Taylor Jacobs looked awsome? I mean, I'm not saying that hes a Pro-Bowler or anything, but theres no way in hell this guy gets cut.
Even Trung Canidate looks good every year in these non-contact, shorts and helmets work outs. Do not judge Jacobs to much from these non-contact practices. Let see how he does once the hitting starts. Will he stay healthy and look as confidant as he did this spring? I hope so....
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Old 05-20-2004, 01:54 PM   #32
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Let me preface this by saying that my research is limited!

I your #2 draft pick is not starting, then it was a weak pick. There are 22 starting positions on offense and defense, and at best you can fill them up with 5-10 #1 picks. The skins have 5 (Ramsay, Gardner, Samuels, Arrington, Taylor) they have drafted, I am sure we have traded for others, like Springs, Upshaw, Wynn, (Candidate?). This is about 8-9 First Rounders on the team.

The skins have 5 (Jensen, Raymer, Smoot, Betts, Jacobs) players they drafted in the 2nd round. They have acquired 3 others (Griffin, Washington, Portis). For a total of 8 second rounders. That is a total of 17 players in the 1st and 2nd. Of those 17, 12-13 are starters. That would still leavel 9-10 open positions.

By looking at our drafts for the 1st and 2nd rounds the last five years, and what player's we've been able to retain, I would say that out of a standard possible 10 players drafted, we have been able to retain 3 top notch players (Arrington, Samuels, and Jensen), the jury is still out on four of them (Ramsay, Smoot, Jacobs, and Taylor), with 2 seemingly servicable players (Betts and Gardner). The only player we haven't retained is Champ.

If out of the the bottom 6 we get 4 more top notch players, I think we have done extremely well in the draft...I think that is a possiblity with Ramsay, Smoot, Jacbos and Taylor....

Sorry for the long writeup!
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Old 05-20-2004, 02:21 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by lifetimeskin
Let me preface this by saying that my research is limited!

I your #2 draft pick is not starting, then it was a weak pick. There are 22 starting positions on offense and defense, and at best you can fill them up with 5-10 #1 picks. The skins have 5 (Ramsay, Gardner, Samuels, Arrington, Taylor) they have drafted, I am sure we have traded for others, like Springs, Upshaw, Wynn, (Candidate?). This is about 8-9 First Rounders on the team.

The skins have 5 (Jensen, Raymer, Smoot, Betts, Jacobs) players they drafted in the 2nd round. They have acquired 3 others (Griffin, Washington, Portis). For a total of 8 second rounders. That is a total of 17 players in the 1st and 2nd. Of those 17, 12-13 are starters. That would still leavel 9-10 open positions.

By looking at our drafts for the 1st and 2nd rounds the last five years, and what player's we've been able to retain, I would say that out of a standard possible 10 players drafted, we have been able to retain 3 top notch players (Arrington, Samuels, and Jensen), the jury is still out on four of them (Ramsay, Smoot, Jacobs, and Taylor), with 2 seemingly servicable players (Betts and Gardner). The only player we haven't retained is Champ.

If out of the the bottom 6 we get 4 more top notch players, I think we have done extremely well in the draft...I think that is a possiblity with Ramsay, Smoot, Jacbos and Taylor....

Sorry for the long writeup!
It would appear that the voice of reason uses a fancy font!

He's absolutely right. We can't expect to have all of our top draft picks, plus all of our free agent acquisitions, plus the players we've traded for all start. It would be a thirty man lineup. Players like Jacobs and Betts may be quality players, but who are they going to knock out of the lineup? As for the idea that we should have addressed defensive line needs, examination of the 2002 draft doesn't show any starters drafted after Betts, much less Bauman and Russell.
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Old 05-20-2004, 02:26 PM   #34
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I guess the irony is that Betts and Jacobs have seen their playing time and perhaps even their jobs threatened by a couple of later round draft "steals" in Rock and McCants
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Old 05-20-2004, 03:23 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defensewins
I have to say Offiss, I completely and respectfully disagree with you. Even despite his injury, Jacobs last season played in 4 regular season games. He caught a whopping 3 receptions. This despite playing in an offense geared to pass first and run second. This is not good for our top draft pick. The point of this thread was wasted picks and what pissed me off about this wasted pick is U of Florida has a reputation around the league that it's recievers that are drafted high do not do well, because of their chuck and duck system. The Redskins ignored this when they could have drafted safety Mike Doss or WR Anquan Boldin who had great rookie seasons. They did not need years to adjust, unlike Betts and Jacobs. Doss was in on 101 tackles and helped his team get one games from the Superbowl.
Our greatest draft need in 2003, like this year, is defense. But Snyder and Cerrato like to draft offensive skill players.
Regarding the injuries to Betts and Jacobs, I feel some players are more fragile than others. Some players get hurt all the time, like Trung Canidate and (during his redskins career) Ladell Betts. I don't care how much talent a guy has, if he only plays 6-9 games a year, it is not worth it.
Regardind Betts "breaking tackles evertime he touched the ball", I am not sure which L. Betts I watched, because he is good , but not that good.
Well at least I am getting some respect DW thank you! :thumb: here's the thing, what reciever excelled in SS offense? None! The QB was to busy getting cremated every pass play, but if you saw 2 of his 3 catches you could make a case that he made 2 of the most difficult catches of any reciever on our team last year, I personally didn't wan't to draft him as well, for the same reason's you presented, and I also wanted Doss, but Doss isn't a world beater, but he will probably be better than what we had last year, You also have to take into account that not taking Doss really opened the door for us to take taylor, who will be an absolute monster for us, and will make Doss look like a nobody, Anquan? Who new? How many other team's passed on him before Arizona selected him? They got lucky, good job by Arizona, but that doesn't mean we did a bad job with that, some times a player slip's under the radar, nobody I know of was pushing for the guy, as for Jacob's I have no doubt in my mind he will be outstanding for us, he's a Gibb's kind of guy, good charactor and hard worker, I think we will be the ones who got lucky with a Florida pick.

Respectfully submitted on this day 5/20/04 By Douglas C. Niedermier sergent of arm's.
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Old 05-20-2004, 04:26 PM   #36
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I think Bauman is only a wasted pick because we just signed Harris and Brown. Ive always had highhopes for Bauman. I mean, he entered the league by having Darrel Green be his personal mentor. Then learned under champ and smoot. Whens hes been in hes made some big plays, and more importantly hes one of the few DBs on our team (other than Smoot and Bailey, im talking about the backups) that hasnt given up a ton of big plays. He was hurt last year which foreced Ade Jimoh and Todd Franz to step in, and noffense to their fans but they gave up plenty of yards and scores when they were in.
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Old 05-20-2004, 10:18 PM   #37
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I wouldn't count out Bauman. Brown's low signing bonus makes him cutable if he's outplayed, and Harris's contract has built-in provisions for him spending this season on IR. Bauman should see some PT - especially in Williams's scheme, which can employ up to 6 DB's.
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:15 AM   #38
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I think that Betts and Russell were both picked to satiate Spurrier, and not because they were the best players on the board at that point in time.

Dan Snyder has always tried to give his coaches the players they wanted, and this has not always been the smartest thing to do.

This has been one of my criticizms of Snyder - that in letting the coach dictate the flow of a draft, he is forgetting the fact that some people are paid to coach a team and some people are paid to create a team.

The most successful NFL franchises have clear delineations between the coach and general manager.

We still don't have that and it is a chronic problem that will ail us until Danny realizes he is not a professional general manager.

Whether getting Brunell for Gibbs is a smart idea remains to be seen, but I don't know that anyone would argue with Gibbs for the time being.
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:17 AM   #39
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That being said, Bauman can hit. I think he is going to be a great nickel back.

The verdict is still out on Betts - remember - it took Stephen Davis a few years before he emerged as a top flight back.

As for Russell, I really have trouble seeing him being on this team for much longer.
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:19 AM   #40
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I'd also like to mention that if Ramsey ends up starting, with Bauman as a nickelback and Betts is a solid contributor, that means that 3 out of the 4 picks are contributors - which isn't a bad ratio at all.

Now if we would just have a friggin' draft with more than 3 or 4 picks, I'd be happy.
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:56 AM   #41
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I have never been that upset over our drafting the last 5 year or so. Every team has a few mistakes and passed up on someone better. By far and away the bigger off season mistakes has come in free agency, over blown contracts for aging players, and COACHING/ FO staffing. After having such a strong FO and coach for so many years, the revolving door has hurt the Skins far more then a few draft picks.
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Old 05-21-2004, 05:09 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRedskin
In 2002, the Skins drafted:

Ladell Betts: 2nd Round
Rashad Bauman: 3rd Round
Cliff Russell: 3rd Round

What are people's thoughts on these picks - In the 20/20 of hindsight:

Were they good picks?

Will any pan out as being worth the cost?

Do you think they are just wasted picks?

I think the consensus is that Russell is a washout.

I don't know about Bauman - will he ever be more than a competent to good nickel back? Is he even that? If so, why load up on DB's of questionable quality? Not referring to Springs as one of the questionable CB's, but by getting Springs are the Skins acknowledging that Bauman can't be a starter?

As for Betts, obviously, he is no more than 2nd string right now - but say Portis gets injured, was Betts worth the 2nd rounder? Does he have the talent to step in and be a starting quality back? If given the opportunity, could he be a 1,200 yard back?

I look back at these picks and think "What a waste of high picks". Just wondering if anyone disagrees or thinks I am being to hasty.

the reason why we bulked up on db's if you didnt already notice... is because williams being our d-head coach. he will use alot of six db formations and he would like allot of some what talent on the field. walt and ralph along with bauman will be fighting for that nickel spot. and i think believe it or not, ralph brown may win it. i havent seen anyone talk about him on this site, but this guy did a pretty darn good job with the giants a year ago. but walt seems to be the front runner but he is getting old and injuries are starting to be a concern
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Old 05-21-2004, 05:27 PM   #43
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Whenever I watched Brown he was getting beat. He did OK as a nickel back but when he was forced into a starting role I dont think he was up to the challenge. Hopefully no on will get hurt and he'll just be a talented dime back.
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Old 05-21-2004, 06:03 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss
....I personally didn't wan't to draft him (Taylor Jacobs) as well, for the same reason's you presented, and I also wanted Doss, but Doss isn't a world beater, but he will probably be better than what we had last year, You also have to take into account that not taking Doss really opened the door for us to take taylor, who will be an absolute monster for us....
Respectfully submitted on this day 5/20/04 By Douglas C. Niedermier sergent of arm's.
We could have Doss and Sean Taylor both. We could have been set at the safety position for many years. Plus Doss is making less than what we are paying Matt Bowen. We would have saved money on the Salary cap as well as upgrading the safety position.
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Old 05-21-2004, 06:15 PM   #45
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Doss sucked last year, im glad we didnt draft him. He wont ever be an elite safety. Atleast Jacobs has the potential to be great, we havent had a chance to see him because of a freak injury. I wouldnt have been surprised if Jacobs took Gardners spot last year had he not been injured.
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