Overrated/Underrated

Redskins8588 · 05-20-2004, 08:45 PM

smootsmack, My bad on that, your right I meant Norwood. Also I think you get my point. But I never compared him to Joe Montana. Does he have the ability to be that good? Maybe, but I agree it is too early to tell.

SKINSnCANES, if they are as good as you say with Brady, then why didn't they do much in the 2002 season? With the exception of some players the Pats were pretty much the same team.

hi-jinx · 05-20-2004, 10:22 PM

Ya kow quite a few of us think Lavar may be overrated and/or overpaid. I would love to see a poll along those lines.(hint, hint)

Mattyk · 05-20-2004, 10:34 PM

2 rings in his first 4 seasons is a hell of a start for Brady. Another ring and the Montana comparisons will really start flying. He's got alot of ball left to go.

Drift Reality · 05-20-2004, 11:23 PM

Overrated - Keyshawn Johnson. This guy doesn't get any separation any longer (except against us last year) and talks way too much for someone who isn't much of a playmaker. He is a good possession receiver, but that's about it.

PSUskinsfan11 · 05-21-2004, 12:15 AM

Wow I can't wait till LaVar has an amazing year back at the weakside and all of you haters are eating your words.

BrudLee · 05-21-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Jeff George is a bum, that was the worst move the redskins ever made!!! Jeff George is the only QB that spells TEAM with an I!!! I should have added that the great QB will also care about the team first. Jeff George is probably the only exception.

Tom Brady did indeed lead the drives to allow Vinatieri to make the field goals, but when Vinatieri went on the field to both times all the presure, the season, and even maybe his career were on the line with those GAME WINNING kicks.

Look at what happened to Steve Cristie(sp) when he missed the field goal that would have let the Bills beat the Giants in the super bowl, he went down hill after that, even though it was Jim Kelly, now in the hall of fame, that led the drive to allow him to attempt that kick. The Bills whole season came down to how good there kicker was, and not who led the drive.

QUESTION: With out Vinatieri do the Pats still win the Super Bowl both or even 1 time?

I think they probably win both. In the first Pats win, Vinatieri did hit the game winner with time expiring - but the score was tied at the time. I remember Madden saying that the Pats shouldn't be trying, and should just prepare for OT. So it was a great clutch kick, but the game was in play if he missed it, which has to reduce the pressure.

Lost in last year's heroics, was the truly average season and post season Vinatieri had. He was a 73 percent kicker during the season, and was 7 for 10 in the post-season. We've run guys out on a rail for less. Vinatieri is in a great situation where his teammates have faith in him, and his contract provides job security. He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try.

Redskins8588 · 05-21-2004, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

2 rings in his first 4 seasons is a hell of a start for Brady. Another ring and the Montana comparisons will really start flying. He's got alot of ball left to go.

sounds like in your opinion Brady was the reason for the Pats going and winning both super bowls, you don't think that the defense had anything to do with Brady getting 2 rings in his first 4 seasons?

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

BrudLee · 05-21-2004, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

No doubt 8588, he's in the top three or four in his profession. I just don't think he's the main reason the Pats won those championships, which some previous posts semmed to alude to. The defense, some clutch passing to smart receivers (get out of bounds!!!), and great special teams play were all part of the winning equation.

Mattyk · 05-21-2004, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

sounds like in your opinion Brady was the reason for the Pats going and winning both super bowls, you don't think that the defense had anything to do with Brady getting 2 rings in his first 4 seasons?

BrudLee - "He's also on a team which gives him the chance to make Super Bowl winning kicks - something that 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try."

You are right 30 other kickers in the league each year would love to try to kick the GAME WINNING field goal, but IMO there are only a handful of kickers that could do that with all the pressure and Vinatieri is IMO probably the best clutch kicker in the game. If he misses that GAME WINNING kick 2 years ago against the Raiders the Pats do not go on and win the super bowl.

Sounds like you're not giving any credit at all to Brady. The first SB win I can see your point a bit more, but Brady has definitely proved that he's a big-time QB capable of taking his team all the way. I'm not saying Brady was the only reason for their two SB wins, but he was a big part of it.

Of course defense had something to do with it, but what team doesn't win the SB without a solid team effort across the board, defense, ST, etc.??

I give alot of credit to Vinatieri, he's definitely a clutch kicker, but I just have a hard time giving more credit for two championship seasons to a kicker over a QB.

skin4Life28 · 05-21-2004, 01:18 PM

I love Lavar and his energy that he brings to the game. I would have to say so far he has not really proven anything yet. He doesnt even have a 100 tackle season. For those who are saying Urlacher is overrated are crazy. The man has had in all of his four seasons 100 plus tackles. If you compare the two players you tell me who has done more.

SkinsRock · 05-21-2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skin4Life28

I love Lavar and his energy that he brings to the game. I would have to say so far he has not really proven anything yet. He doesnt even have a 100 tackle season. For those who are saying Urlacher is overrated are crazy. The man has had in all of his four seasons 100 plus tackles. If you compare the two players you tell me who has done more.

You can't compare an outside LB with a middle LB on stats alone. A MLB almost always has more tackles. Trotter had over 100 last year, and he's being cut.
That said, I agree that LaVar definitely has not lived up to his potential yet, but IMO he's not overrated. Neither is Samuels, he has just had two years of nagging injuries combined with an awful scheme.

I think both of them will really come in to their own with the new coaching staff....especially next year with a season under their belts. And that pretty much goes for the entire team.

SKINSnCANES · 05-21-2004, 04:34 PM

The Pats dont win the Super Bowl with Bledsoe for one reason, Brady is a lot smarter. Drew has the cannon but Brady makes a lot of smart decisions and plays to his strenths.

SKINSnCANES · 05-21-2004, 04:37 PM

This is going to make a lot of people mad but I think the most overrated Redskin is Fred Smoot. With Fred there always seems to be a lot of excuses, such as he gets the ball thrown his way more because peopel dont throw against Bailey. Well the fact is that he has had the ball thrown his way more, and he goes for the pick more than he goes for the smart play and gets burnt a lot. Im not doubting his ability to be a leader, hes definitly the voice of our defense right now. But in terms of his skills I think there are more reasons why he hasnt been great instaed of proff why he is. If we didnt get springs and if Smoot was playing the starting wide out I think we'd get burnt everyweek.

Redskins8588 · 05-21-2004, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrudLee

No doubt 8588, he's in the top three or four in his profession. I just don't think he's the main reason the Pats won those championships, which some previous posts semmed to alude to. The defense, some clutch passing to smart receivers (get out of bounds!!!), and great special teams play were all part of the winning equation.

You are right it was a combination of special teams and haveing receivers that knew where they were on the field and able to get out of bounds. My point that I am trying to make here is that MVP stands for MOST VALUABLE PLAYER. As for Vinatieri being the main reason the Pats won those super bowls, I will agree that it was not just him. With that IMO Vinatieri should have still ben the MVP of that game, it all came down to his kick in that last seconds of the most important game of the season. If Brady threw the game winning touchdown then yes I could see how he would be considered the MVP.

Look at Ace Ventura: Pet Detective, look at what missing a GAME WINNING field goal can do to a kicker.

SKINSnCANES · 05-21-2004, 04:40 PM

lol. I love that movie.

View Poll Results: Overrated Redskins
LaVar Arrington	8	28.57%
Chris Samuels	13	46.43%
Other (explain)	8	28.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

05-21-2004, 04:34 PM	#42
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 31 Posts: 5,394	The Pats dont win the Super Bowl with Bledsoe for one reason, Brady is a lot smarter. Drew has the cannon but Brady makes a lot of smart decisions and plays to his strenths. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

05-21-2004, 04:37 PM	#43
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 31 Posts: 5,394	This is going to make a lot of people mad but I think the most overrated Redskin is Fred Smoot. With Fred there always seems to be a lot of excuses, such as he gets the ball thrown his way more because peopel dont throw against Bailey. Well the fact is that he has had the ball thrown his way more, and he goes for the pick more than he goes for the smart play and gets burnt a lot. Im not doubting his ability to be a leader, hes definitly the voice of our defense right now. But in terms of his skills I think there are more reasons why he hasnt been great instaed of proff why he is. If we didnt get springs and if Smoot was playing the starting wide out I think we'd get burnt everyweek. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

05-21-2004, 04:40 PM	#45
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 31 Posts: 5,394	lol. I love that movie. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

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05-20-2004, 08:45 PM	#31
Redskins8588 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ridgway, PA Age: 34 Posts: 2,509	smootsmack, My bad on that, your right I meant Norwood. Also I think you get my point. But I never compared him to Joe Montana. Does he have the ability to be that good? Maybe, but I agree it is too early to tell. SKINSnCANES, if they are as good as you say with Brady, then why didn't they do much in the 2002 season? With the exception of some players the Pats were pretty much the same team.

05-20-2004, 10:22 PM	#32
hi-jinx Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Memphis Age: 37 Posts: 180	Ya kow quite a few of us think Lavar may be overrated and/or overpaid. I would love to see a poll along those lines.(hint, hint)

05-20-2004, 10:34 PM	#33
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 72,656	2 rings in his first 4 seasons is a hell of a start for Brady. Another ring and the Montana comparisons will really start flying. He's got alot of ball left to go.

05-20-2004, 11:23 PM	#34
Drift Reality Impact Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 505	Overrated - Keyshawn Johnson. This guy doesn't get any separation any longer (except against us last year) and talks way too much for someone who isn't much of a playmaker. He is a good possession receiver, but that's about it.

05-21-2004, 12:15 AM	#35
PSUskinsfan11 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: the port, PA Age: 28 Posts: 692	Wow I can't wait till LaVar has an amazing year back at the weakside and all of you haters are eating your words.

05-21-2004, 01:18 PM	#40
skin4Life28 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 26 Posts: 447	I love Lavar and his energy that he brings to the game. I would have to say so far he has not really proven anything yet. He doesnt even have a 100 tackle season. For those who are saying Urlacher is overrated are crazy. The man has had in all of his four seasons 100 plus tackles. If you compare the two players you tell me who has done more.

Overrated/Underrated

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