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Clarett Loses In Court One More Time

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Old 05-25-2004, 01:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Hogskin
WHOA, Defensewins. That was a lot of powerful assertions to make about the MOTIVES of others. Whatever the motives are, how can anyone complain about what it does to/for many, many people. This system gives thousands of guys who can not afford it a FREE college education, and a great shot at a financially successful life outside of PRO sports. The NFL/NCAA system is even providing much of the funding that ultimately supports scholarships in OTHER sports. Then, for the hundreds of guys who become multimillionaires in the NFL, I hope no one is griping for THEM. I sure don't want to hear another "slavery" comment relating to a multi-millionaire athelete. What utter nonsense. These guys have opportunity handed to them on a silver platter, and all they have to do is play sports to earn it. Guys like Clarett, through repeated dishonesty and rules violations, damage their chances. But the STILL can get the opportunity. Amazing. How can anyone say this is unfair? It is a shame what happened with Williams, but he was impatient and took a huge gamble. The NFL stated from the outset that they were going to fight it legally. Williams got bad legal advice. Many others stuck it out and were patient. Hopefully, Williams will not be hurt by this in the long run. Clarett? I really don't care - this guy will always be trouble.
When I have I said Slavery? What are you talking about?
You are right the NFL has a huge altruistic past. They are not in it for the money, they want to make everyone else better person. :confused:
Wow, we can really agree to disagree.
The NFL has a huge history of treating its past players poorly. It was not until the late 70's that the multi-billion dollar NFL started to take care of past great players. Players did not start to make big money until free agency started in the 80's. Owners and the league were pocketing millions while paying their players small amonts, in comparision to the profits that the league and its players were bringing in. It took several player strikes to get the the greedy owners to share in the profits. Are you actually lecturing me that NFL, its owners and the NCAA are altruistic.
The NFl and the NCAA are not providing the funding for all of this, the NFL and NCAA fans and supporters are.
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Old 05-25-2004, 02:59 PM   #17
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Just something to ponder here:

Who is paying for Clarett's lawyers? Or are these guys doing it "pro bono"?

If they re "running a tab" for Maurice, I suggest he damned well better get himself a fat contract one of these days soon because lawyers of this type charge $600 - 700 an hour where I come from and they have to have several hundred hours on the tab already. Do the math folks...
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:30 PM   #18
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Maybe Defensewins is kicking in $$ for Clarett's lawyers LOL. Seems like he has a MAJOR ax to grind with the NFL and NCAA.

A couple points, if you can try to think rarionally for just a second. You are arguing from both sides. First you blame the NFL/NCAA system for causing untold harm. Then, when a valid point is made that the NFL/NCAA system actually does a tremendous amount of GOOD, you dismiss it, because the fans put up the money that the NFL/NCAA football generates. DUH!!! What difference does that make? Sounds like you are now saying your issues with the system are the fault of the FANS. We were discussing the system. If you don't want to put up your money, you don't have to. In fact, with your totally negative attitude toward the NFL, why are you here??? The Redskins ARE the NFL, along with 31 other like-minded partners.

One last thing. You did not get the reference to slavery. I will spell it out for you parochially. Your statements were so anti-NFL, and so bleeding-heart pitious of the poor offended players. Slavery has historically been the next step for players with this radical point of view. I was just pointing out the direction your remarks had taken.
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Old 05-25-2004, 08:03 PM   #19
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Clarrett screwed himself by failing to play by the rules (any rules - NCAA or NFL) and his multi million dollar talent is going to get him a job which requires him to learn one line and one line only -- "Would you like fries with that??"
Don't get too sure about this. I watched quite a few Ohio State games when Clarette played, and I watched interviews of him recently. He's not here trying to make himself a martyr for other young, gifted players. He's trying to play. All he wants to do is play, and from what I've seen is completely motivated. You can say a bunch of bullshit about how staying in school and getting an education is what they need. Bullshit. These guys don't learn anything but football. You think staying in college till 3 years after HS is important. Let us look at a great ex-Redskin. Mr Dexter Manly. How did he get through college without the ability to read? I'm sure it's from that amazing education he received, for free, because he was such a great football player. At least he had a nice education to fall back on, right?

Quote:
There is no constitutional right to play in the NFL - I checked.
Check the pre-amble. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Which one of these three ideals are being kept from Maurice? I'll let you figure it out.

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This system gives thousands of guys who can not afford it a FREE college education
Exactly. Shouldn't these free educations be given to those kids that will use the education? Not someone who's going to go for 3 years and then join the NFL right away and never look back. If we let people like Clarett skip the football farms it saves taxpayers (schoolarships aren't free either) money, and let's kids that actually need the education have it.

Sports: I heard a rumor they were working for free to get exposure. Not sure if you can hold anything against a rumor. If not, you're right, he needs a job, and soon!
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:46 PM   #20
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Daseal:

I checked the Preamble to the US Consitution and it says nothing at all about "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness". I'll be happy to type in the Preamble for you here if you would like...

However, that phrase does appear in the Declaration of Independence. Unfortunately, the Declaration of Independence has no force of law; it predates the Constitution by about 15 years.

If everyone had a Constitutional right to work in their chosen field, then there would be no legal basis for licensing surgeons or airline pilots or school bus drivers. Hell, in Virginia you have to have a license to open a salon that does nails. And in this respect, one is not presumed to be competent until proven otherwise. You don't get to perform abdominal surgery on patients until a certain fraction of them die horrible deaths and then you get "cut from the roster". In far more erudite language, I'm told that this is part of the NFL's argument and that it is one of the parts that resonated with the appeals court panel.
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Old 05-25-2004, 11:32 PM   #21
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Sports. you're right. I'm sorry.
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Old 05-26-2004, 04:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by offiss
also Joe R. be careful how you talk about people who bag groceries, you could be refering to the next league and SB MVP! see Kurt Warner
Doh! got me on that one.

And by the way, just heard hell has actually frozen over - Daseal and Offiss agreeing on something?? Who'd a thunk it?!
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Old 05-26-2004, 07:21 AM   #23
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haha
Offiss and I often agree - provided it's not a chat about politics!
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:27 AM   #24
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Daseal - no one is denying Clarett his right to play football - there are several venues to do just that. The argument seems to be whether he has the right to play in the NFL, rather than the CFL, Arena League, or some other less glamorous venue - for one year.

I agree that the rule is arbitrary and has little basis as to whether a player is "ready" for the NFL. You have to agree that deciding whether each player individually is ready is, to say the least, logistically problematic. It would also leave the league open to hundreds of lawsuits from players told to wait a year. So this arbitrary rule is how they've chosen to defend the league from players whose maturity might be outshined by their 40 times, and therefore weaken the product.
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Old 05-26-2004, 02:44 PM   #25
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offiss:

If teams only drafted players ready to play in the NFL ,there would be no disastrously bad picks. Ryan Leaf would have been an undrafted free agent; same with Rick Mirer and same with that big stud offensive tackle that was drafted by Green Bay who stunk on a bagel (can't remember his name at the moment).

There is a thread here asking if several current Redskins were "wasted picks". If you assertion were correct and only players ready to play were taken, no such thread would ever need to be started.

Clarett can protect himself against a career ending injury with an insurance policy. Even the NCAA, which hates to admit that athletes get certain bennies that other students do not, will allow this and allow him to retain eligibility. (Where can he get the money? From the same place that he is getting the money to pay his lawyers.)

Problem is that Clarett tossed his eligibility in the ashcan when he stopped going to class to maintain academic eligibility. So now that kind of policy is not really open to him.

Clarett chose to put all his eggs in one basket. Notice I said he CHOSE to do that; no one put a gun to his head and made him do it against his will. Then he forgot to keep a careful eye on the basket...
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Old 05-26-2004, 03:27 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Hogskin
Maybe Defensewins is kicking in $$ for Clarett's lawyers LOL. Seems like he has a MAJOR ax to grind with the NFL and NCAA.

A couple points, if you can try to think rarionally for just a second. You are arguing from both sides. First you blame the NFL/NCAA system for causing untold harm. Then, when a valid point is made that the NFL/NCAA system actually does a tremendous amount of GOOD, you dismiss it, because the fans put up the money that the NFL/NCAA football generates. DUH!!! What difference does that make? Sounds like you are now saying your issues with the system are the fault of the FANS. We were discussing the system. If you don't want to put up your money, you don't have to. In fact, with your totally negative attitude toward the NFL, why are you here??? The Redskins ARE the NFL, along with 31 other like-minded partners.

One last thing. You did not get the reference to slavery. I will spell it out for you parochially. Your statements were so anti-NFL, and so bleeding-heart pitious of the poor offended players. Slavery has historically been the next step for players with this radical point of view. I was just pointing out the direction your remarks had taken.
I think you missed my entire point. Believe it or not, my problem is with this rule and how the NFL tries to justify it. I DO NOT have a major ax to grind with the NFL/NCAA...NFL football is my favorite sport.
I do have a problem when the NFL makes a blanket rule like every adult under 21 is not ready for the NFL. There are many 21 year olds and older who are not ready for the NFL.
Also, I did not say the 'NFL /NCAA system has caused untold harm'. I was just responding to someone that was implying the NFL is pure and altruistic in its policies and ways. I was just pointing out the NFL in its past has not always been perfect, charitable and clean cut as it is today.

I am sorry you think these points to my argument are so radical to you. LOL
You act like it is treasonous for me speak out against the NFL, when in my opinion they did something wrong. This is still America right? I can speak out against the NFL when I think they are being unfair?
You do not need to attack me personally by calling my argument "so anti-NFL, and so bleeding-heart pitious (sp?)...(You go on to say) "Slavery has historically been the next step for players with this radical point of view. I was just pointing out the direction your remarks had taken."
Wow next you are going to call me a nothern-er/yankee.
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Old 05-26-2004, 07:25 PM   #27
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Thank you for Tony Mandarich. I'm having a senior moment here.

I have nothing against giving Maurice Clarett the same opportunity that every other college junior has to jump to the NFL - the moment he is a college junior.

BTW, to be accurate, the NFL rule does not say a player has to be 21. It says his high school class had to graduate three years ago. MOST high school grads are 18, but if a kid graduated at 16, he'd be eligible for the NFL draft at 19 under the current rule. This is one way that the rule might be attacked because it is not equally applied...

It is the NBA that wants to have a lower age limit of 20 for all its players. the NFL merely wants them out of HS for 3 years.

I don't think the NFL gives a fig about colleges losing money when star players leave school. And the NCAA hardly has fallen all over itself to try to keep a door open for Clarett to come back and play for them somewhere. In fact, unless the NCAA filed an amicus curiae brief in the very last hearing in the appeals court, then they were not even a party to this action. So the money that Clarett might generate as a college football palyer does not seem to have enticed them very much.
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Old 05-26-2004, 07:37 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Defensewins
I think you missed my entire point. Believe it or not, my problem is with this rule and how the NFL tries to justify it. I DO NOT have a major ax to grind with the NFL/NCAA...NFL football is my favorite sport.
I do have a problem when the NFL makes a blanket rule like every adult under 21 is not ready for the NFL. There are many 21 year olds and older who are not ready for the NFL.
Also, I did not say the 'NFL /NCAA system has caused untold harm'. I was just responding to someone that was implying the NFL is pure and altruistic in its policies and ways. I was just pointing out the NFL in its past has not always been perfect, charitable and clean cut as it is today.

I am sorry you think these points to my argument are so radical to you. LOL
You act like it is treasonous for me speak out against the NFL, when in my opinion they did something wrong. This is still America right? I can speak out against the NFL when I think they are being unfair?
You do not need to attack me personally by calling my argument "so anti-NFL, and so bleeding-heart pitious (sp?)...(You go on to say) "Slavery has historically been the next step for players with this radical point of view. I was just pointing out the direction your remarks had taken."
Wow next you are going to call me a nothern-er/yankee.
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Defensewins
You act like it is treasonous for me speak out against the NFL, when in my opinion they did something wrong. This is still America right? I can speak out against the NFL when I think they are being unfair?
You do not need to attack me personally by calling my argument "so anti-NFL, and so bleeding-heart pitious (sp?)...(You go on to say) "Slavery has historically been the next step for players with this radical point of view. I was just pointing out the direction your remarks had taken."
Wow next you are going to call me a nothern-er/yankee.
WOW is right! Your statements keep getting farther out there, defenswins. Of course you have the right to speak out. But did you not realize that OTHERS also have the right to respond to you? Or that they WILL when you say something outrageous? The rest of us have those same rights. LMAO

Next correction: You apparently do not understand what a personal attack is. A personal attack is an attack on YOU, not your statements. I only made reference to your statments. If I make a personal attack on you, you will know it. An example of a personal attack would be closing out a post with a thinly veiled slur on someone because you believe they are "Southern". But I will let it slide this time, because, since you do not understand what a personal attack is, you obviously did not intend it.

But just to set the record straight for you: I was born in Bethesda, Maryland. I graduated from D.C.'s Archbishop Carroll High School with John Thompson. I graduated from D.C.'s Catholic University. I spent my first 50 years in the D.C. area. But my wife is from Alabama. I will pass your fine comment along to HER.
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:05 PM   #30
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As many have said, no one held a gun to Clarette's head and forced him to try to get drafted. Likewise no one is forcing a team to draft him. Fact is he's talented enough to make it into the league and play well.

I see no reason why if a team is willing to take a guy and play him they can't. As long as he's 18 (only because of the whole liability thing) why not let him play.
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