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Has Bugel lost it?

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:54 PM   #16
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Old 08-16-2006, 08:59 PM   #17
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

Thanks for the replies guys.

I think we're all happy with our starting 5.

Perhaps I was expecting too much from Wilson and Molinaro. Still disappointing to see Wilson gone and Molinaro not trusted enough to be put in when Randy Thomas went down though.

Hopefully there is a diamond in the rough hiding somewhere on the roster.
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:04 PM   #18
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Thanks for the replies guys.

I think we're all happy with our starting 5.

Perhaps I was expecting too much from Wilson and Molinaro. Still disappointing to see Wilson gone and Molinaro not trusted enough to be put in when Randy Thomas went down though.

Hopefully there is a diamond in the rough hiding somewhere on the roster.
how many times do i have to tell people that molinaro is a tackle, hes not a guard
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Old 08-16-2006, 09:22 PM   #19
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

Our starting o-line is up there w/the best, as others have said.
As far as Buges evaluating talent, does anyone know here how much influence he has in the draft picks? Gibbs is team president, but I'm sure he listens to buges on o-line prospects.
The draft is a crap shoot in the late rounds sometimes. If Wilson & Molinaro were great picks maybe we wouldn't be discussing this.
Its great that Dock has lost weight, he's got to pull & get out on screens & he was up to 360 or so. If he's lost weight and added muscle he'll be a beast. And its a contract year for him, so watch out.
Our backup situation is scary, but I don't know who to blame.
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Old 08-16-2006, 10:02 PM   #20
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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how many times do i have to tell people that molinaro is a tackle, hes not a guard
I know he's a tackle!

You would still hope he could have done a better job than human turnstile Corey Raymer!
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Old 08-16-2006, 10:39 PM   #21
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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how many times do i have to tell people that molinaro is a tackle, hes not a guard
Typically tackles can play the guard spot fairly easily.
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Old 08-16-2006, 10:41 PM   #22
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

Dock has trimmed down. I don’t remember where I heard it but he slimmed up about 20 pounds. This should make him quicker. Bugel doesn't just want piles of fat in front of Gibbs's stars. He demands his guys to play with agility. I think the slow development of our twos shouldn't fall square on his shoulders. I know Wilson is gone, but Molinaro is still here. I haven't studied any tape, but I think he would be alright if god forbids he had to play. Plus this year they tried to draft guys who could play all three line positions. Just like the Hogs. Most of those guys lined up at least two different positions during their careers.

I think we will be fine, and as long as he is here for another year or two he will uncover the right men capable of the job.
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Old 08-16-2006, 10:49 PM   #23
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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I don't know what you guys think but I'm seriously concerned that Bugel has had 3 offseasons now to find and develop some decent young offensive line guys and appears to have failed miserably.

I keep hearing that everybody is happy with the back-ups but I've yet to see anything on the field to suggest that anybody can step in without a significant drop-off in performance.

Am I being too hasty?
Am I putting too much blame on Bugel?

I know good offensive linemen don't grow on trees but I hoped for better than what we seem to have at the moment.

It could be that you are being a little too hasty, and you are right when you say good linemen don't grow on trees. We can't expect to have OL men in backup positions with all the capabilities of starters because if they did they would be starters. Back-up OL men are like relief pitchers in baseball they don't have 100 plus pitches in their arms. We probably have enough depth as long as all our starters are not out at the same time, So far we've only seen the back-up's all playing together not replacing an individual starter who may go down, so I'm going to hold serve on the back-up OL until I see them perform under different circumstances. I have the utmost confidence in Bugel, he and Jim Hannifan were the best two to ever come through here.
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Old 08-16-2006, 11:31 PM   #24
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

I remember hearing that Dock slimmed down to allow him to pull and move better in Saunders offense (sorry--can't remember where I heard it. Maybe DOck talking to Larry Michaels on skins.com?).

The o-line is one of the team's strenghts, IMO. But look--Wilson and Molinaro were 6th rounders. Not everyone is Joe Jacoby. We'll see, because no doubt one or more backup guys are going to see action in regular games this year--it's the nature of the business. I have faith in Buges. But it's Saunders offense now, not Gibbs. The blocking schemes are different, so it'll take some time. We've only had ONE PRESEASON GAME, folks!
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Old 08-16-2006, 11:52 PM   #25
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Typically tackles can play the guard spot fairly easily.
Not without first practicing the position. Usually if you have the skill set to play tackle, you can play guard. Still, they are very different positions.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:05 AM   #26
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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I don't know what you guys think but I'm seriously concerned that Bugel has had 3 offseasons now to find and develop some decent young offensive line guys and appears to have failed miserably.

I keep hearing that everybody is happy with the back-ups but I've yet to see anything on the field to suggest that anybody can step in without a significant drop-off in performance.

Am I being too hasty?
Am I putting too much blame on Bugel?

I know good offensive linemen don't grow on trees but I hoped for better than what we seem to have at the moment.

Davy: Expressing concern that we've failed miserably. See last year's 10-6 (11 if you count the PO win) record. That is not failure.

Davy: Has Buges lost it? No

Davy: Is there a drop-off in performance in back-ups? Yes, of course, that's why they back-up!

Davy: Am I being too hasty? No. As this thread has said, just look at CPs production last year, and our QB stood in there most of the time.

Davy: Am I putting too much blame on Bugel? Probably. A Joe Jacoby comes around maybe only once in life. (I saw Gibbs V1, and the original Hogs since I'm old!) Now, all 32 NFL teams scouting departments have "Joe Jacoby" on their radar and are searching him out.

It starts with the FO finding and signing the talent. HOF Coach Gibbs, and Coach Saunders have to get the offensive concept into their heads. Coach Bugel has to coach "away" old habits, and instill better techniques for the player to perform in those offensive concepts. The player and those around him then have to have the heart and skill to produce. A lot of those variables Coach Bugel doesn't have control over. It's kind of like the old Basketball addage: "You can't teach height!". It's like that in FB as well.


Davy: I hoped for better.

I hoped for better as well, but it takes a commodity we call "time". I was satisfied with the results last year, and I expect even better this year.

Davy: Expressing concern over the "moment". What??? Why worry? It's one PS practice game! We've got sixteen "real" weeks, and a couple more practice games. That my friend is the "time".
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:06 AM   #27
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

Buges is still one of the best O-line coaches in the game. he has taken a confidence stricken, technique lacking o line and brought back the confidence we use to see back in the day. He is a motivator, those guys will run through fire for him. Plus the improvement of Dockery is a tribute to Buges. As far as backups, I think Molinaro is the only one on the team that he has coached. Most of the backups are new because the ones that were here when he got here stunk.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:17 AM   #28
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Bugel has proven he knows what to do with talent, and how does anyone know if there is a problem right now with our starters? But we defiently have a problem with thier backups, and a lot of that stems from the fact that somehow we believe that you can draft quality linemen in rd's 5 through 7, we have thrown away to many early round draft picks where that depth could have been built, so we are left with players who have size but no ability to perform at the NFL level. Bugel just coaches them he doesn't draft them, it's not his fault.
First off, you are right...it's not Bugels fault we don't have depth at the O-line, it's the NFLPA's fault for instituting free agency. You can't do what Gibbs and Buges did in the 80's anymore, which is stock starter quality backup talent on your team by throwing money around and putting a guy on the practice squad who would be a starter elsewhere. Today, quality players will get paid like quality players and the salary cap means you have one of two choices...1) Stock really good starters and mediocre back-ups ala the Redskins, or 2) Stock better than average but not great starters, and better than average back-ups, ala the Patriots and Eagles. Obviously the second option worked for the Pats, (and only the pats), but it's not the strategy employed here, nor most teams in the league. Now, if I were given the choice of a single position I would splurge on, it would't be WR's as the skins have done, I would not have picked up ARE, and instead picked up two quality G/Ts instead. Of course I don't own the team, nor do I have three rings to my credit, so take that for what it's worth.

Second point is that when guys refer to the "Hogs" you have to remember that these guys were considered huge for their day, but would probably be the lightest line in the league by today's standards. Grimm and Butz were barely cracking 300 lbs, and no where near the 360 that Dockery played at last year. Of course Defensive Tackles back then were only 320, not 400lbs. The Refrigerator Perry was only in the low 330's and was considered a giant. Just to keep the perspective in line.
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Old 08-17-2006, 09:37 AM   #29
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

As a unit, the backup OL did not look very good against the Bengals.

But that doesn't mean individually they aren't capable of filling in. I'm not sure we really know what we have yet as far as the backups are concerned.
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Old 08-17-2006, 11:02 AM   #30
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

As I said in another thread if most where like me watching the game I was watching the line as a whole. Only a few of those guys are going to make the team and if two are playing poorly (missing assignments etc) it will make the whole unit look bad. The coaches are going to hand pick the few that look good and plug them into (when needed) a solid group of linemen. I would think with the three (Bugel, Saunders, Gibbs) if they saw a problem with the backups they would have addressed the problem.
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