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Has Bugel lost it?

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Old 08-17-2006, 11:12 AM   #31
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Originally Posted by Mattyk72 View Post
As a unit, the backup OL did not look very good against the Bengals.

But that doesn't mean individually they aren't capable of filling in. I'm not sure we really know what we have yet as far as the backups are concerned.
This is a good post. When the 1st team came out of the game, the entire starting offensive line went out and they put in 5 backups and Todd Collins at QB. The line was a freakin turnstile, but there were so many rushers coming through I couldn't really recognize which individual linemen were having trouble and which ones were holding their own.

If you put Mike Pucillo on a line, subbing in for Rabach and playing in between Samuels, Dockery, Thomas, and Jansen, I bet Pucillo holds up just fine. Tough to evaluate the line just yet. I need to see more in the preseason before I judge it.

Incidentally, Todd Collins did nothing to redeem himself the other night, but I definitely need to reserve judgment on him too. If he played behind the 1st team offensive line the story might be completely different. He was getting rushed so damn much I don't know what we can expect him to do. He made a few boneheaded decisions like trying to ditch the ball and getting it picked by a DE. And then getting sacked in the end zone. But a lot of that blame goes to the line too, it's hard to fault Collins too much. If Brunell were in there for that bull rush, the only thing he could have done better is gotten rid of the ball a bit better. It's not like Brunell or Campbell would have done much positive if a rush like that came in their face every down. I'm reserving judgment on everyone at this point.
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Old 08-17-2006, 11:15 AM   #32
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

I agree with another one of the posts that Bugel still is a great O-line coach but maybe his influence with Gibbs and upper management isn't very great. You saw how the offensive production plummeted last year when Randy Thomas went out. The Skins set a record for lowest yards in a playoff win. They should've learned their lesson but chose only to go after position players in free agency which surprised me greatly. Dockery is Ok but he's not a pro-bowler.

The O-line backups looked pathetic on Sunday against the Bengals 2nd string and this is an area that they should've put a priority on in the offseason especially with an older quarterback who is more prone to injury. Maybe go after 1 position player and concentrate on getting at least one solid backup on the O-line.
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Old 08-17-2006, 11:15 AM   #33
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Different time now. Gibbs and Co. used to stash starter level players on IR and in backup roles because they could. Nowadays it is difficult to keep good players as backups and you are seeing the product. You seem amazed that when a first stringer goes down that there is a dropoff in the level of play with the next player. I would think that it would be obvious that the backups aren't as good.
Excellent point FRPLG, this is the same for any team in regards to starting caliber back ups at any position. If they are of starting caliber the chances are they will be starting for another team and not in a back up role. Salary Cap just does not allow you to stock pile good back ups, if they are good enough to start it is a good chance we don't have the money to meet agents and players demands to pay them as a starter, though they may only be a back up on our team, so in turn the player leaves and starts for another team. I don't think we have to fear our entire line goes down and we have to play with all back ups like the first preseason game this year, but most of these players in reserve I hope will be serviceable and I think buges feels comfortable with these players to fill those roles if an individual goes down.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:03 PM   #34
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

NO, Bugel has not lost it.

The problem is for ten years Snydratto drafted terribly after the second round. They would do well with 1st and second round picks, but NOTHING after that. You can not develop quality depth at any position when your later round picks suck and get cut year after year.

In Bugels first term Bethard/Casserly found OL gems everywhere:

1) In Bugels first year Bethard/Casserly drafted M. May and R. Grimm (1st & 3rd round), then signed as undrafted F.A. rookies Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bosic. 4/5 of our line came in one offseason.

Raleigh McKenzie (11th round) and Ed Simmons (6th round) were great backups and ended up becoming great starters.
Call these lower picks lucky or smart.
We need to maxmize our draft picks for cheap depth.

FRPLG-
Back in the day Gibbs stashed QB's and other positions on IR. but I do not recall Gibbs ever stashing an offensive lineman of any significance on IR. They went out and found great players.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:40 PM   #35
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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1) In Bugels first year Bethard/Casserly drafted M. May and R. Grimm (1st & 3rd round), then signed as undrafted F.A. rookies Joe Jacoby and Jeff Bosic. 4/5 of our line came in one offseason.

Raleigh McKenzie (11th round) and Ed Simmons (6th round) were great backups and ended up becoming great starters.
Call these lower picks lucky or smart.
We need to maxmize our draft picks for cheap depth.
Excellent point. And don't forget Mark Schlereth -- another late round gem.

Sometimes I wonder whether that was really great scouting and a demonstration of Beathard's keen eye for spotting talent, or was it just the luck of the draw? Just think of the one-in-a-million shot the Patriots had by taking one of the best quarterbacks in the league in the 6th round!

I guess it's a combination of both. The stars were certainly aligned for the Redskins throughout the 80's. But Beathard was one of best at his job.
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:52 PM   #36
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

By the way, have you seen Schlereth's daughter? She's no Ramona but still cute

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Old 08-17-2006, 08:01 PM   #37
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Beathard made those type of picks everywhere he went, he was one of the all time great talent evaluaters, Gibbs now that he has total control on personel is finding out that drafting late is much more than just making a selection, you here him constantly say how he believes we will really find some big surprises from these late round picks, of coarse that used to happen under Beathard but it hasen't happened yet for him. Espy is the first player under Gibbs to really have a chance to be that kind of player.
RB Jessie Lumsden looks good so far. He could develop into a good player.
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Old 08-18-2006, 07:47 AM   #38
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

Has Bugel lost it? NO!!!

Is this an "I'm Bored" topic?
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Old 08-18-2006, 08:21 AM   #39
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

Bugel is the MAN! Give him a credit where credit is due. He can't make the blocks himself. I believe the O-line is gonna be pretty impressive this year.
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Old 08-18-2006, 08:28 AM   #40
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

Somebody is over thinking.......our offense is gonna rock.
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Old 08-18-2006, 04:32 PM   #41
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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All I remember from that bowl is getting messed with by my huge sloppy drunk uncle
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
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Old 08-18-2006, 05:30 PM   #42
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Originally Posted by Dogtag View Post
Has Bugel lost it? NO!!!

Is this an "I'm Bored" topic?
More of a "Devil's Advocate" topic.
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Old 08-19-2006, 01:36 AM   #43
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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I keep hearing that everybody is happy with the back-ups but I've yet to see anything on the field to suggest that anybody can step in without a significant drop-off in performance.

Am I being too hasty?
Am I putting too much blame on Bugel?
Yes you are and yes you are. Of course you are going to see a drop off in performance with a back-up -- at every position. Ladell Betts is good, but we've dropped off at RB. The team is scrambling for corners now because Shawn Springs is out until week three. Take a guess at what happens if Marcus Washington or Santana goes down for a couple of weeks!

Lets hope that the first team stays healthy and that second team players can step it up for a game or two and contribute on special teams.
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Old 08-19-2006, 06:21 AM   #44
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

Meast said it best...what do you know?
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Old 08-19-2006, 06:28 AM   #45
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Re: Has Bugel lost it?

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Yes you are and yes you are. Of course you are going to see a drop off in performance with a back-up -- at every position.
Obviously there will be a drop off in performance when a starter is replaced, that is why I added the word 'significant'. Perhaps I should have used 'huge' instead.
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