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Top Corner or Star Back: Bailey Makes It Clear

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Old 06-10-2004, 01:06 PM   #16
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I think you can't just compare it positionally cb v. rb.

The league is filled with average running backs who can be quality starters and get the job done. In such cases, the RB's team can still be successful if other parts make up for the lack of a premier (top 5) back (New England anyone??). On the other hand, if your best cornerback is only average, he will be toasted fairly regularly. In such cases, the lack of a GOOD (say top 25%) corner can really set a team back.

BUT, if we are talking a top 5 player at each position, I think it is a no-brainer take the running back EVERY time. If you have a game breaker (like Portis) at RB, the defense is going to have to crowd down and put the ENTIRE secondary in one-on-one's. In those cases, your entire secondary better be well above average because, if not, the weak link will be exploited and won't get help. So your "shut down" corner takes out my number one receiver every play - fine, I got three other guys on every play to throw to and NONE of them are defended by a shut-down cover guy. Almost by definition, someone will be open and that premier corner will be chasing some other defenders' man into the endzone. The ONLY drawback is, as Champ pointed out, CB's generally last much longer than RB's (but, if the back is TRULY special, e.g. Emmitt, Walter, Riggins, etc. you will get 8-10 quality years).

With players of Champ's and Clinton's quality, Clinton is by far the bigger difference maker.

Prisco is a nimwit who loves to bring the hate for Danny Boy.
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Old 06-10-2004, 02:51 PM   #17
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Champ mentioned how organized and togetter Denver is compared to the Redskins. It's too bad he didn't stick around for the second coming of Joe Gibbs.

After hearing the players comments from the last 2 mini camps it's already a completely different redskins organization.
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Old 06-10-2004, 04:27 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Bottom line is Snyder did what he had to do to get the deal done. I highly doubt he tossed Bailey and the 2nd rounder on the bargaining table right off the bat.

On paper maybe we gave up a little too much. But does anyone seriously regret the deal? Would anyone have not made the deal if you were in Snyder's shoes?

You have a disgruntled star CB who wants out and he already turned down a fair offer and future negotiations do not look promising. You have a new head coach who loves to run the football and one of the top young RB's in the league is being dangled in front of you. What would you have done differently?

It was a ballsy deal that alot of owners/GM's would not have made.
I agree it was ballsy, but I would not have made the deal on those terms. I would have been patient, we had Champ franchised and didn't have to move him so soon. I think if we had a real GM then we could have gotten Portis without throwing in the pick. I agree that it looks like the pick is no big deal right now, but what about 2 yrs from now when this team has to be dismantled and we don't have any young talent because we kept trading away our picks for players that we can no longer afford?

I love the Skins as much as anyone, and I don't doubt that Danny's heart is in the right place but he's about as fickle as a fourteen yr old girl. He loves Norv, no he doesn't, he loves Schottenheimer, no he doesn't cuz he really loves Spurrier, but actually he really loves Gibbs. I love the Gibbs move but Danny's "plan" is to just throw money around and hope something sticks. I think Danny would be the best owner in all of sports if he just admitted what he doesn't know, which is football. So please put me in the Danny basher pile and let's get it on!
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Old 06-10-2004, 07:45 PM   #19
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Danny throws the $$ around but he also seems to have a pretty good grip on how to manage and plan around the cap, where is this "cap hell" we've been hearing about for years now?? Yeah I know Marty stepped in for one season and helped ease some of the cap burden but Snyder has been running the show since '00 now, that one season wasn't a cure all.

Snyder didn't get filthy rich by being stupid.
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Old 06-10-2004, 08:09 PM   #20
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Snyder makes more money with the Skins than any other team in the leauge, and by a good margin. We have freaking commericals during the game on teh jumbo trons, and wehre isnt their advertising?? Id rather have an owner that spends the money to try and win then the guy that wants to have 20 million in cap room each year and try to win with no names. (besides, for all us madden fans Snyder is the man at getting talent on the team)
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Old 06-10-2004, 08:32 PM   #21
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I really think we came out the best in this deal. I hated to lose Champ but Springs is coming in wanting to show that he can replace Champ so he'll go all out. Smoot is on the other side so we should be set at CB. We had no running game last year and Portis will definitely correct that, especially with the O'line looking so good now. I think Champ will regret changing teams when he did. Coach Gibbs and his staff will get us back to the Super Bowl. I don't see Denver getting there anytime soon!!!!
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Old 06-11-2004, 10:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Danny throws the $$ around but he also seems to have a pretty good grip on how to manage and plan around the cap, where is this "cap hell" we've been hearing about for years now?? Yeah I know Marty stepped in for one season and helped ease some of the cap burden but Snyder has been running the show since '00 now, that one season wasn't a cure all.

Snyder didn't get filthy rich by being stupid.
You cannot run from the salaray cap and you cannot give away $7 million dollar signing bonuses like souvenir pens. You've got LaVar, Portis, Brunell, Coles, Randy Thomas, Trotter, Springs, Washington, Jansen, Griffin, Taylor is coming up. Didn't someone post the salary cap numbers for the Skins somewhere, you can't keep deferring money to everyone because at some point it all comes due. What Snyder is banking on is that he can win a SB before that happens, because at some point he'll have to cut most of these guys.

I love having an owner that will go out and get players, but every offseason it's us throwing dollars at free agents like Michael Irvin in Scores.

Please don't use the words Snyder and "plan and manage" in the same sentence. He is a very shrewd businessman, witness how profitable he's made the franchise, and he does pump that money into the team rather than his pockets, but I'm a football fan and there has been little rhyme or reason to any of his moves since 2000. If there was, why have we had five coaches in five seasons? What kind of plan is that?
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Old 06-11-2004, 10:53 AM   #23
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Do you think Danny and Vinny have no idea what they are doing with the cap? Do you think they don't understand the financial implications in the upcoming years?? I mean c'mon let's get serious, they're not running this franchise blind.

Every team has to deal with the cap and every team runs into trouble from time to time, the Skins are no exception. But to say that the Skins are any worse off than anybody else just isn't true. Despite the claim that the Skins are headed into 'cap hell', I find it funny that every offseason there are a handful of teams in much worse shape than we are.

Seems to me that someone in the FO must have an idea of what's going on.
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Old 06-11-2004, 10:55 AM   #24
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would you rather have the cardinals owner where he doesnt give a damn? or a guy who at least wants to see his team win. i give snyder credit for wanting to win, and i understand ppl want him more hands off, but he is doing what he thinks is best for the team to win, i guarauntee hed take a super bowl over making 2 times the expected profit in a year
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Old 06-11-2004, 11:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
Do you think Danny and Vinny have no idea what they are doing with the cap? Do you think they don't understand the financial implications in the upcoming years?? I mean c'mon let's get serious, they're not running this franchise blind.


Seems to me that someone in the FO must have an idea of what's going on.
Not to me. We are the jokes of the NFL, the Summer Super Bowl winners four years running. Look at where we were when Snyder took over, in the playoffs and last year we were 5-11 and lucky to be that. And who is left from that team, just four seasons ago? Jansen? And the sad part is that if we win a SB or not, in three years it'll be the same story. And our FO has a plan? I'm not going to pretend that VC and DS know what they are doing because it's quite obvious that they don't. What else can explain the downward slope we've taken on the field? You can say they've had plans, but not a plan. If they win a SB, DS will grab the trophy and go Frank Sinatra on us, singning "I did it my way!"

I see a FO that doesn't have a clue. I see the 49ers all over again, only without all the success, at least so far. I love Gibbs coming back, I love Portis, I love Coles and I think Randy Thomas was a great pickup, but four moves in five years? That's a FO that knows what it's doing?
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Old 06-11-2004, 11:47 AM   #26
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I'm talking strictly about the cap and the FO's management of it, I'm not talking about their plan in regard to coaches, players, etc.
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Old 06-11-2004, 01:27 PM   #27
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OK, and you're right, today we're about 4 mil under the cap and the FO has a plan to win the SB in three years and break up the team. Great plan, if it works, but um if it doesn't is it worth it?
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Old 06-11-2004, 01:30 PM   #28
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well part of the plan now is for Gibbs to instil what it means to be a true, or core redskins. So that in three years everyone is more than willing to redo their contract so they can stay a redskins. Kinda a scandal but id do it to play under Gibbs.
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Old 06-11-2004, 02:05 PM   #29
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If it doesn't work then oh well, at least they gave it a good shot. Then it's back to the drawing board to give it another go, just like every other team does.
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Old 06-11-2004, 02:37 PM   #30
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The Skins were losers for six years before Snyder took over. The fact that they went to the playoffs in '99 is more a reflection of the fact that Snyder lit a fire under Turner's ass than any kind of indication that things were actually headed in the right direction prior to Snyder's purchase of the team. This team was listless and directionless prior to Snyder's purchase. After Snyder bought the team, there still didn't seem to be a clear plan, other than throwing a lot of money at aging, big-name veterans. Snyder made a fool of himself by taking a devil-may-care attitude towards the salary cap, and he will probably never shake the "careless spender" label.

While on the surface it may appear that Snyder hasn't learned anything, and he will never change, his tactics have been refined somewhat since that nightmare 2000 spending spree. He still spends lots of money on free agents, but more often than not, he spends that money on younger players with upside. Yes, there have been disasters, but every team has them. Despite what the Snyder-bashing members of the media would have you believe, the Redskins are not the only team that has had their share of free agency busts.

And I wouldn't be so quick to write-off the second Gibbs era as another "three-year plan". The Redskins might not be as bad off versus the future cap as some might think. Yes, there are some deals that will need to be re-done-- there always will be. And once again, name me a team that doesn't have to re-work players' contracts to stay under the cap. But the fact is, the salary cap is set to increase considerably when the new TV deal is signed sometime in January-February of 2005, and that will likely give the Redskins the breathing room they need to avoid making major roster changes three years from now. Sure, there might be a few overpaid players cut like there are every year, but more than likely, the "core Redskin" players-- the players worth keeping-- will be with this team through Gibbs' entire tenure, if not longer.
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