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A Look Back: The 2001 Draft

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Old 06-24-2004, 12:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattyk72
I agree that it's way too early to write off Jacobs as a bust. Betts is getting close to being a bust, but I think we need to see a little more of him.

Jacobs was rated as a first round pick by a lot of teams and we were originally targeting him at #13 overall before the pick was traded to NY for Coles, so to have him available with the 44th overall pick was a steal. Again, I think it's way too early to write him off, he barely played last year after his freak injury. To be fair to him, he never really got started.

As for the discussion about Rosenfels, I really can't call him a bust simply because he was a project pick, and a big reach in the 4th round. To me a bust is someone you expect to pan out and doesn't, did anyone really think Rosenfels was going to develop in to a starting quality QB? Who knows, he may eventually, but I highly doubt it.
I agree with your post Matty in terms of its conclusions. I just disagree with the definition of bust. I use it to describe any pickup (through the draft or free agency) who doesn't work out. Obviously, a 4th round bust is much less serious than a 1st round bust.

As I said in my previous post, picking in rounds 4-7 is a crap shoot and so I don't think we can condemn Danny Snyder for Rosenfels not working out well.
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Old 06-24-2004, 12:11 PM   #17
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i'd kinda have to say, if they don't help the team, then yeah, they're a bust... and trading at a loss isn't good either. You're right in that i don't think many people expected too much from him, so he's not a major bust, but he's still not good enough now to really merit a 4th round pick in retrospect. I'd rather take undrafted hassleback for (cheap) added depth, and that's who we have.
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Old 06-24-2004, 12:23 PM   #18
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a bust in my book is a player taken in the higher rounds (1 and 2) that is a failure. 3rd rounders, they can be busts, but they werent really counted on as heavily for production. All day 2 picks IMO are not busts. 4th roudn QB's arent supposed to be starters in their early years, so Rosenfels was not a bust to me.
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Old 06-24-2004, 01:06 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
As I said in my previous post, picking in rounds 4-7 is a crap shoot and so I don't think we can condemn Danny Snyder for Rosenfels not working out well.
I dont think ROsenfels was a bust at all, from what I remember he was well liked by the fans to. Sage had to leave because we kept bringing in a lot of QBs, whether it was Johnson and George, or Gators alumni he just wasnt going to fit in any of the coaches plans. I think once sage gets out of miami he will remake a name for himself later in his career.
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Old 06-24-2004, 03:16 PM   #20
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THIS ISNT ABOUT BUSTS. My point was not that Jacobs and Betts and Russell are busts, but that we could have used those picks to select need based players. Ladell Betts was predicted to go 4 or 5 round, and we scoop him up. I do agree that we have done some good drafting, with lavar, jansen etc., but all of those guys were drafted when Snyder wasnt exerting as much influence. It seems to me in recent years he has been going after offensive players at the cost of our defensive line.
It is nice to have Betts as a backup, and to have Jacobs as a backup, but wouldnt it be nicer to have a starting pass rushing lineman?
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Old 06-25-2004, 02:21 AM   #21
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Yeah, and that's what jacobs spot was for, but spurrier felt it was a good pick...

the real answer is wait and see how jacobs etc and the d-linemen we could have picked turn out... if jacobs has a freak performance and hauls in 16 tds, then i'd say i rather have him

But I do see your point, and it is a good one, our d-line stinks, but barring injuries, i think thats the only real weakness...
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Old 06-25-2004, 07:46 AM   #22
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Would you rather have Mike Doss or Sean Taylor, Bergman? Personally I think our drafts have been good. It sounds like you want to draft everything into defense and leave our offense to flounder alone on an island somewhere. Personally I don't want us to draft any ends. If we get D-Line, let's trade. D Linemen are so hard to scout out of college and can easily become busts. I almost guarantee either Will Smith or Udeeze don't really do much in their pro careers. I don't want someone like that. It's almost sure fire Sean Taylor will do well, and Taylor Jacobs has been called the best WR on the team by Champ Bailey. Champ is a guy that knows a little bit about WR's.

He had a freak injury last year, and what I heard from the first mini-camp Jacobs is really impressing Gibbs. I bet he starts at some point this season, if not he will next!

Cliff Russell needs to work on his hands and then he can be a real threat. From what I saw he had good route running and blazing speed. Now all he needs is some velcro on the ball and his hands/chest and we're set.
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:07 AM   #23
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You can't draft on need alone.

Are there any pass rushers that have panned out that were available in the same spots as when we took Jacobs and Betts??

Let's take a look
Quote:
2002 2nd round results:

1(33) Houston Jabar Gaffney WR Florida
2(34) Carolina DeShaun Foster RB UCLA
3(35) Detroit Kalimba Edwards DE South Carolina
4(36) Buffalo Josh Reed WR Louisiana State
5(37) Dallas Andre Gurode C Colorado
6(38) Minnesota Raonall Smith OLB Washington State
7(39) San Diego Toniu Fonoti OG Nebraska
8(40) Jacksonville Mike Pearson OT FLORIDA
9(41) Cincinnati Lamont Thompson S Washington State
10(42) Indianapolis Larry Tripplett DT Washington
11(43) Kansas City Eddie Freeman DT Alabama-Birmingham
12(44) New Orleans LeCharles Bentley C Ohio State
13(45) Tennessee Clevan "Tank" Williams S Stanford
14(46) NY Giants Tim Carter WR Auburn
15(47) Cleveland Andre Davis WR Virginia Tech
16(48) San Diego (from Atlanta) Reche Caldwell WR Florida
17(49) Arizona Levar Fisher LB North Carolina State
18(50) Houston (Supplemental) Chester Pitts OT San Diego State
19(51) Denver Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla)
20(52) Baltimore (from Washington) Anthony Weaver DL Notre Dame
21(53) Oakland (from Tampa Bay) Langston Walker OT California
22(54) Seattle Maurice Morris RB OREGON
23(55) Oakland Doug Jolley TE Brigham Young
24(56) Washington (from Baltimore) Ladell Betts RB Iowa
25(57) NY Jets Jon McGraw S Kansas State
26(58) Philadelphia Michael Lewis SS Colorado
27(59) Philadelphia (from Miami) Sheldon Brown CB South Carolina
28(60) Seattle (from Green Bay) Anton Palepoi DE Nevada Las Vegas
29(61) Buffalo (from San Francisco) Ryan Denney DE Brigham Young
30(62) Pittsburgh Antwaan Randle El WR Indiana
31(63) Dallas (from Chicago) Antonio Bryant WR Pittsburgh
32(64) St. Louis Travis Fisher CB Central Florida
33(65) New England Deion Branch WR Louisville
If there's a pass rushing monster there please let me know, because I don't see one.

2003 2nd round results:
Quote:
1 33 Cincinnati Eric Steinbach G Iowa
2 34 Detroit Boss Bailey OLB Georgia
3 35 Chicago Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette
4 36 New England Eugene Wilson CB Illinois
5 37 New Orleans Jonathan Stinchcomb OT Georgia
6 38 Dallas Al Johnson C Wisconsin
7 39 Jacksonville Rashean Mathis FS Bethune-Cookman
8 40 Minnesota E.J. Henderson ILB Maryland
9 41 Houston Bennie Joppru TE Michigan
10 42 Seattle Ken Hamlin FS Arkansas
11 43 St. Louis Pisa Tinoisamoa OLB Hawaii
12 44 Washington Taylor Jacobs WR Florida
13 45 New England Bethel Johnson WR Texas A&M
14 46 San Diego Drayton Florence CB Tuskegee
15 47 Kansas City Kawika Mitchell ILB South Florida
16 48 Buffalo Chris Kelsay DE Nebraska
17 49 Miami Eddie Moore OLB Tennessee
18 50 Carolina Bruce Nelson C Iowa
19 51 Denver Terry Pierce ILB Kansas State
20 52 Cleveland Chaun Thompson OLB West Texas A&M
21 53 N.Y. Jets Victor Hobson OLB Michigan
22 54 Arizona Anquan Boldin WR Florida State
23 55 Atlanta Bryan Scott SS Penn State
24 56 N.Y. Giants Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State
25 57 San Francisco Anthony Adams DT Penn State
26 58 Indianapolis Mike Doss SS Ohio State
27 59 Pittsburgh Alonzo Jackson DE Florida State
28 60 Tennessee Tyrone Calico WR Middle Tennessee State
29 61 Philadelphia L.J. Smith TE Rutgers
30 62 San Diego Terrance Kiel FS Texas A&M
31 63 Oakland Teyo Johnson WR Stanford
32 64 Tampa Bay Dewayne White DE Louisville
Unless I'm missing something I don't see any pass rushing studs here either. So should we have just drafted someone because we needed a DE? Or was the smarter move to go with the highest ranked guy on our draft board?
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:43 AM   #24
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I was about to make the same post Matty...great minds think alike.
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Old 06-25-2004, 02:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKINSnCANES
Well. Ive got a bunch of things to say but im pressed for time right now so im going to just say one of them. In that draft, of the receivers you listed I dont think I would agree that as of now Chad Johnson was the best pick. But I will bet anyone of you that after next year that Santana Moss will be at worst the second best receiver out of that group, perhaps first since Johnson has a rookie QB throwing to. I know you are all going to just say its because hes a Cane, but try to prove me otherwise.
I'm sure you've got a special place in your heart for Moss, and I think he's a good player but Chad Johnson has a chance to be special. I think Moss is amazing in open field, he's quick, decisive and shifty. He's a playmaker. But Chad Johnson is on a higher level. He's taller, just as good in the open field and he showed last season that he could be fantastic. Moss had 1100 yds, Johnson had 1300. Now we can sit here and argue all day, but at the end of the day how are you going to judge a wideout? Yds per catch? 20 yd plays? 40 yd plays? TDs? I'll take Johnson with the "rookie" qb over Moss this year, I just think he's a better player. The only proof I have is the aforementioned stats, unless of course you think there's a better way to judge players.


All that said, even though Coles is going to be the star in our offense, ala Gary Clark, I think Gardner is going to be great. I think he has good hands and his down year last year was due more to our qbs having no time to throw and SS being disenchanted with him. I think Gardner will benefit from the new coaching staff more than any other player. I think he will be a pleasant surprise, he's a first round player and it's about time he showed his first round ability.
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Old 06-25-2004, 07:07 PM   #26
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Chad Johnson seems like another Terrell Owens in the making, and Moss seems like another Coles. I don't think you can go wrong with either one, right now I'd take Johnson though.
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