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Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

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Old 12-06-2006, 03:42 PM   #1
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Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

Throughout the season we’ve been debating Gibbs or Saunders. Can their philosophies coexist? Do their personalities clash? Should Gibbs take tighter control of the offense? Should we give Saunders his walking papers?

But let me throw this out here, are we talking about the wrong offensive coaches? Little things, like dropping passes, running tight routes, blocking, these are problems on a lower level of the offense. This is the stuff the position coaches should be working on right? This isn’t about scheme really this is about basic fundamentals.

So I guess my question is do our coaching problems really lie with coaches like Bill Lazor, Earnest Byner, and Stan Hixon and not the big picture guys (Saunders and Gibbs)

Anyway, just some food for thought
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:10 PM   #2
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

I think when stuff starts rolling down hill (ie. 4-8) there is a higher percentage of things like dropped passes and blocking.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:11 PM   #3
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

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Originally Posted by TAFKAS View Post
Throughout the season we’ve been debating Gibbs or Saunders. Can their philosophies coexist? Do their personalities clash? Should Gibbs take tighter control of the offense? Should we give Saunders his walking papers?

But let me throw this out here, are we talking about the wrong offensive coaches? Little things, like dropping passes, running tight routes, blocking, these are problems on a lower level of the offense. This is the stuff the position coaches should be working on right? This isn’t about scheme really this is about basic fundamentals.

So I guess my question is do our coaching problems really lie with coaches like Bill Lazor, Earnest Byner, and Stan Hixon and not the big picture guys (Saunders and Gibbs)

Anyway, just some food for thought
This kinda goes back to the Friend Article - If the assistants aren't doing their jobs whose fault is that. If the proper emphasis is not being put on fundamentals, that's gotta be on the coordinators and, ultimately, the head coach. If they aren't tackling - then drill'em on it. Make sure that the position coaches ARE doing their jobs.

With that said, I bet we see some significant willowing and possibly consiladation in the coaching ranks next year.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:13 PM   #4
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

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Originally Posted by TAFKAS View Post
Throughout the season we’ve been debating Gibbs or Saunders. Can their philosophies coexist? Do their personalities clash? Should Gibbs take tighter control of the offense? Should we give Saunders his walking papers?

But let me throw this out here, are we talking about the wrong offensive coaches? Little things, like dropping passes, running tight routes, blocking, these are problems on a lower level of the offense. This is the stuff the position coaches should be working on right? This isn’t about scheme really this is about basic fundamentals.

So I guess my question is do our coaching problems really lie with coaches like Bill Lazor, Earnest Byner, and Stan Hixon and not the big picture guys (Saunders and Gibbs)

Anyway, just some food for thought
That's just it. You're talking about "the basics" and technique which is taught by those coaches. I think you may be onto something there. And that is why I have said all along, to look at the big picture...all the parts! Not just to lay blame at the head coach and be done with it.

Who were the position coaches during Gibbs I? Or did they have position coaches back then?
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:18 PM   #5
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

Like someone already said, if the position coaches aren't getting it done, the guys above them need to step in.

Perhaps this all goes back to the too many chefs in the kitchen theory?
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:33 PM   #6
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

I think the lost of DeWayne Walker can't be under estimated, that's for sure.

Essentially, I think everything has to be on the table after the year is over.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:36 PM   #7
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

Gibbs would be to blame ultimately if his coaching staff is not getting their job done. Maybe he was trying to take more of a hands-off approach and let the coaches do their thing which with some people doesn't work. All of the coaches have talented players at every position. I wonder if they feel they can slack off a bit because they think their players are coached well enough as it is. A stretch, I know, but sometimes when you think you've got something good you don't pay as much attention to detail until you're already behind and struggling to catch up to everyone else.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:38 PM   #8
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

These players are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS, the coaches can only do so much. The players have to perform. It’s not like route running and catching the ball is new to them.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:38 PM   #9
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

Nice try at a diversion from the Gibbs hating.

All of the players on this team are pros and most have played organized football since the age of 6. These guys would have never made it on their High School Football team if they were unable to “master” the basics.

The lack of tackeling, blocking and catching would be due to lack of performance. If you are suggesting these assistant coaches are not motivating their players, then I would suggest you look at Gibbs mannerisms on and off the sidelines.

Gibbs look likes a deer caught in the head lights. He shows no emotions either positive or negative.

The entire team (including coaches) is a reflection on how Gibbs conducts himself.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:47 PM   #10
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

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Nice try at a diversion from the Gibbs hating.

All of the players on this team are pros and most have played organized football since the age of 6. These guys would have never made it on their High School Football team if they were unable to “master” the basics.

The lack of tackeling, blocking and catching would be due to lack of performance. If you are suggesting these assistant coaches are not motivating their players, then I would suggest you look at Gibbs mannerisms on and off the sidelines.

Gibbs look likes a deer caught in the head lights. He shows no emotions either positive or negative.

The entire team (including coaches) is a reflection on how Gibbs conducts himself.
Not sure what you mean by "nice try at a diversion from the Gibbs hating" But anyhow, I agree that they should have mastered the basics at a young age. But I believe that even if you know it like the back of your hand, you still have to practice it repeatedly.

I understand that ultimately the responsibility lies with Gibbs, but he can't (nor can any coach on any team) realistically be expected to be involved in every aspect of every drill of every unit. He has to trust the position coaches to do their job on a daily basis throughout the week. I'm not saying they're not, I'm just saying what if the job there doing just isn't good enough.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:50 PM   #11
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

So TO is a reflection of how Andy Reid and Bill Parcell's conduct themselves? Please, some of these guys aren't trying to conduct themselves as professionals. They're relying on their natural god-given ability to play football. If given the chance to slack and make millions while doing, some will. Count on it.

Also, Gibbs does not look like a deer caught in the headlights. Wide-eyed and stock still? He seems pretty composed to me. Smart enough not to allow emotions dictate his decision making process.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:02 PM   #12
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

I'll say this in Gibbs' defense, there probably aren't more than five coaches in the entire NFL that work harder and grind like Joe Gibbs does.

I distinctly remember the week he returned he was if he ever considered coaching another team like Bill Parcells. He responded, "It never crossed my mind, I'm a Redskin....I couldn't see myself coaching anywhere other than Washington D.C."

That statement blew me away because coaches and players come out of retirement all the time or drag out their retirement with various teams all the time. But Gibbs chose to come back to his roots and risk failure and ridicule, which says a lot.

The reason I bring this up in this thread, is because I wonder if his 'lieutenants' have that same selfless spirit and mind set when it comes to turning this franchise around. To Joe Gibbs this isn't simply a vocation, but it's a calling. And I'm not sure that his supporting cast see it the same way.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:03 PM   #13
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

Here's a question about the "too many cooks" issue--do we have a much bigger staff than other teams? Or is it just that we pay the most, and give our assistants more powerful sounding titles--"assistant head coach offense" etc?

HOw differently are other teams structured?

I agree that fundamentals are lacking. But the coaches have an influence on that by how they manage and encourage, or rebuke, their palyers. Imagined what happened when you didn't do the fundamentals on a Vince Lombardi team. But clearly Gibbs knows how to get a team playing mistake free--his 80's teams were that way.

SO much of the game is mental, that when one thing goes wrong, it can snowball, as AB's NB pointed out. We're seeing a lot of that here.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:09 PM   #14
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

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Originally Posted by JWsleep View Post
Here's a question about the "too many cooks" issue--do we have a much bigger staff than other teams? Or is it just that we pay the most, and give our assistants more powerful sounding titles--"assistant head coach offense" etc?

HOw differently are other teams structured?

I agree that fundamentals are lacking. But the coaches have an influence on that by how they manage and encourage, or rebuke, their palyers. Imagined what happened when you didn't do the fundamentals on a Vince Lombardi team. But clearly Gibbs knows how to get a team playing mistake free--his 80's teams were that way.

SO much of the game is mental, that when one thing goes wrong, it can snowball, as AB's NB pointed out. We're seeing a lot of that here.
To add-on to that, do we have more than one coach giving instructions to the same guys at a particular position?
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:12 PM   #15
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Re: Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

Recoginizing that Gibbs cannot realistically oversee/micromanage every coach as they perform their job, I would hope that he does take the time to review the coach's performance both on the practice field and away from it in the various meetings. Yes, he has to trust he lieutenants but he also has to supervise them and, when appropriate, take them to task.

As for the players failing to perform the basics - that really is a tough one. To make that determination, you'd almost have to see how the practices are carried out. If the coaches are coaching and the players are practicing proper technique but failing to perform that which is practiced on game day - then it's on the players. If, however, the coaches aren't dedicating any time to reinforcing basic techniques, then I would say it's a coaching problem.

Given the complexity of the game these days, I would expect that most position coaches are reviewing and prepping the game plan for the following week and that any technique coaching is a one-one thing done in the course of the game-plan practice. I bet that, unless Gibbs mandates it, that the position coaches are not spending time on basic tackling/blocking drills.
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