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Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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Old 12-11-2006, 11:35 AM   #46
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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Originally Posted by The Zimmermans View Post
I think Jason had his most promising game this weekend. He made some throws that I wasn't sure he was capable of making. We were 4-8 coming into this game, so a victory would not have helped us in any way at all in the end (although I would have thoroughly enjoyed one). I saw flashes of brilliance outta jason, and that is all that matters to me. To throw two picks and then stage a comeback and put us in a position to win is very impressive. And I loved the JC Randle El connection. We converted many third downs that brunell would not have converted, which kept the eagles O off the field. Good stuff from JC in the second half.
Bingo. We're building something here. Trotting a new mediocre QB in here every two years has proven not to be a very good strategy. Considering our strong RB play and that we have a good corps of WR's and TE's, I think chemistry, reps, and solid line play are all we need to start turning this thing around.

The defense, on the other hand, needs to close out the year strong. I have no idea what's going on there, but we've looked embarrassingly bad this year to the point where even our good players seem to be regressing.
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:24 PM   #47
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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Irish...

Theres a significant difference between making scouting errors and poor cap management...and having no idea what you are doing. The latter is a commonly used exaggeration of the former. You seem to be treating it as fact.

When scouting error and poor personell decisions have been going on for 10+ years its a sign of an organization not knowing what its doing.
Gibbs and co. are inexpierenced at front office work when it comes to salary cap management and personel management. Inexpierenced and mistake prone, not stupid. There's a difference.

OBC was inexperienced in pro football ways, Gibbs is not. Gibbs is a terrible personell evaluator and when he was successful in the long past he had a GM, he needs one now.

Also, I wouldn't say that a plan is "clearly not working" when 13 games ago, said team was in the playoffs. We really don't know why the defense is playing so poorly, but the NFL is a 16 game season. Games are decided almost completely randomly (case in point-Sunday's game. We were the better team, and Philly won), and things don't necessarily even out over the season. So I don't think a 13 game sample is enough to say that what we are doing isn't working with any degree of certainty.

13 games ago this team was in the playoffs but Gibbs decided he was not good enough and fired himself and brought in AS to rebuild the O. As usual, this team never builds upon anything, its rebuild, rebuild....

Again another sign of an organization that does not know what it is doing.


The team is 4-9, its not working.


I think we can all agree on the fact that giving away all our draft picks was a mistake, but only because the vets we signed were unable to produce a championship.I think we can all agree on the fact that OBC could have been a good pro coach had his team won more games. It didnt happen and neither did your scenario, again poor player evaluation, back to an organization in a mess.
See above in blue.
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Old 12-11-2006, 01:21 PM   #48
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

In a season in which our FA strategy has backfired & once again made us a laughing stock, why are some Skins fans starting to question what looks like JG's best move in the draft since he came back - trading to get JC. Gibbs clearly was thinking about the future of the team, don't even try to compare JC to the Ramsey/Brunell situation.
JC looked good after a tough 1st half yesterday, to be expected. You have to give him credit for having such a good attitude & resolve when he's taking over during a miserable time. Morale on the team has been low, speculation has been rampant & we were losing before he took over.
This is Gibbs' guy & he's gonna stick w/him next year even if JC has some tough times. It WILL pay off, this kid is for real!!
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:08 PM   #49
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

Like the goober I am, I spent quite a bit of time reviewing and grading Campbells performance against the Eagles. I wanted to do it to really look at what his issues were, and not get caught up in my own general opinions that can be influenced by the overall success of the team. I graded him based on the quality of his throws, the quality of his decisions, the type of defensive set, the quality of the line protection, and whether or not the reciever helped or hurt his cause.

What I expected to find was that the line was a major source of his problems, but the line protected amazingly well on Sunday, in fact, I only graded them poor on two of the pass plays(plays where a pass was actually thrown). What I ended up learning, and you guys have probably talked about it to death here, was pretty interesting.

#1 He has got to stop taking such big drops.
He has a big problem with this. He takes 5-7 step drops on most every play and it is hurting him. He often finds himself dropping so far back that he backs out of the pocket and then has to scramble. He needs to stop and step up, not keep falling back. This is not be design either. You can see that it breaks up the rhythm of the play and is not a design element. More importantly, it adds distance to every throw and disrupts timing. It reminds me of watching a newbie play Madden. They just keep backing up so it will take longer for the line to get to them and they can read the receivers longer, but it really is hurting them.

#2 He stares down receivers badly.
This is obvious to everyone, but he really does an awful job of this. The second interception Sunday was a good example. He was staring at Cooley from the snap and never looked anywhere else. On top of that, it was a slant and the ball placement was bad(he did not lead him over the middle, but rather put it on his shoulder to close to the break). The combination of too factors like that mean that your recievers have to make great catches just to avoid disasters.

#3 He fails to pull the trigger.
They can say what they want about him shaking off mistakes, but he didn't on Sunday. Those two picks rattled him, and it got worse throughout the game. In the NFL, you have got to deliver the ball before the break. You cannot wait to see the break and see if your receiver is open. If you do that, then the guy will be coming into a new coverage zone by the time you get the ball there. The ball must be delivered on time so that the break creates the separation you need. You have just got to trust your receivers and make an accurate throw. In the second half it got worse. He would wait to see guys open by several steps before making a throw. Now, he was smart enough to often realize that he had waited too long and that it would be unwise to throw it, and so he had to pull it down and run or look for the dump off, but that doesn't cut it. Those recievers weren't blanketed, the plays were there, he just lacked the heart to make the throws.

Conclusions
There were some other small problems too, but these are the major issues. When you put all three of those things together, you aren't going to get very many games where you play four good quarters. The good news is, every one of those mistakes is correctable. The bad news is, they are the kind of mistakes that become habits, and those habits will keep you from becoming the kind of QB you can be. I hope he can correct some of these problems. His ability to move around can be a nice asset if he can get the rest of his game worked out.
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:26 PM   #50
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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If PR wasnt Gibbs' guy from the start then why did he say he was? Dont say anything or say something about competition at QB but dont say a guy is your guy when he's not. That's why I keep saying that we cant really believe anything Gibbs says. Which is my point.

Maybe something better wont come along but if it does (especially based on this organizatiuons recent history) then JC is done.
If you believe all that your saying about this teams owners, coaches , front office etc how can you root for them?
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Old 12-12-2006, 06:33 PM   #51
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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If you believe all that your saying about this teams owners, coaches , front office etc how can you root for them?
I always kind of find statements like that funny. Most people who are true fans are fans of the franchise, of the legacy, of the history, of the team itself. The people who buy it, run it, coach it and manage it are just custodians of that. You can hate everything those guys do and still love the franchise. Loyalty does not have to be blind to those that are screwing it up.
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:30 AM   #52
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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Originally Posted by munny View Post
Like the goober I am, I spent quite a bit of time reviewing and grading Campbells performance against the Eagles. I wanted to do it to really look at what his issues were, and not get caught up in my own general opinions that can be influenced by the overall success of the team. I graded him based on the quality of his throws, the quality of his decisions, the type of defensive set, the quality of the line protection, and whether or not the reciever helped or hurt his cause.

What I expected to find was that the line was a major source of his problems, but the line protected amazingly well on Sunday, in fact, I only graded them poor on two of the pass plays(plays where a pass was actually thrown). What I ended up learning, and you guys have probably talked about it to death here, was pretty interesting.

#1 He has got to stop taking such big drops.
He has a big problem with this. He takes 5-7 step drops on most every play and it is hurting him. He often finds himself dropping so far back that he backs out of the pocket and then has to scramble. He needs to stop and step up, not keep falling back. This is not be design either. You can see that it breaks up the rhythm of the play and is not a design element. More importantly, it adds distance to every throw and disrupts timing. It reminds me of watching a newbie play Madden. They just keep backing up so it will take longer for the line to get to them and they can read the receivers longer, but it really is hurting them.

#2 He stares down receivers badly.
This is obvious to everyone, but he really does an awful job of this. The second interception Sunday was a good example. He was staring at Cooley from the snap and never looked anywhere else. On top of that, it was a slant and the ball placement was bad(he did not lead him over the middle, but rather put it on his shoulder to close to the break). The combination of too factors like that mean that your recievers have to make great catches just to avoid disasters.

#3 He fails to pull the trigger.
They can say what they want about him shaking off mistakes, but he didn't on Sunday. Those two picks rattled him, and it got worse throughout the game. In the NFL, you have got to deliver the ball before the break. You cannot wait to see the break and see if your receiver is open. If you do that, then the guy will be coming into a new coverage zone by the time you get the ball there. The ball must be delivered on time so that the break creates the separation you need. You have just got to trust your receivers and make an accurate throw. In the second half it got worse. He would wait to see guys open by several steps before making a throw. Now, he was smart enough to often realize that he had waited too long and that it would be unwise to throw it, and so he had to pull it down and run or look for the dump off, but that doesn't cut it. Those recievers weren't blanketed, the plays were there, he just lacked the heart to make the throws.

Conclusions
There were some other small problems too, but these are the major issues. When you put all three of those things together, you aren't going to get very many games where you play four good quarters. The good news is, every one of those mistakes is correctable. The bad news is, they are the kind of mistakes that become habits, and those habits will keep you from becoming the kind of QB you can be. I hope he can correct some of these problems. His ability to move around can be a nice asset if he can get the rest of his game worked out.
#1) I really find it hard to believe he's going against the play design in his dropbacks. With his level of inexperience I think they are having him drop back further so he has more time to go through his reads. He simply doesn't have the experience level yet in this offense to take a short drop, make a quick read and get the ball out.

#2) Yes he stares down his WRs and so does pretty much any QB with the limited experience level he has.

#3) I don't think he was rattled after the 2 picks at all, in fact he played a great second half going 7 of 12 for 100 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:33 AM   #53
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

In the second half it got worse. He would wait to see guys open by several steps before making a throw....

What about that throw he made to El for a TD... that throw wasn't late, in fact there was barely any seperation on the play. It was just a perfect throw, right outside the CB's shoulder. On the money
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:57 PM   #54
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

I remember one play early on which, IMO, was one of those flashes of good things to come.

It's third down - Eagle blitz two on the left side, only one blitzer is picked up and one is running unabated to Campbell. He shuffle steps to get a lane and zings an eight (or so) yard pass for a first down into the area vacated by the second blitzer.

I remember thinking that the play would have been a sack if Brunell had been under center.

I just like this kid more and more each game. Of course, that's usually the kiss of death for a player (I really liked Ramsey and thought he was going to be a perfect Gibbs type QB - ooops).
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:29 PM   #55
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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the way the snyder era has progressed I would not be surprised one bit if campbell was not the starter next yr,it wouldnt surprise me if brunell was here next yr,gibbs says campbell will be the starter,brunell will be backup,but first game,campbell gets sacked hard,brunell goes in,campbell doesnt see the field again till brunell has run the team into the ground
i agree, accept i think brunell should be out of the league...at a min off our team...i don't want the temptation.

i think we sign a vet in the off-season, open training camp with campbell penciled in as No. 1...then slowly hear rumblings of the Vet's great leadership and throws in practice...then Gibbs opens a "competition" for the starting job which campbell will lose...we open next season with a vet QB unless jason starts winning...these turnovers are killing gibbs, and you know this, man!!
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Old 12-13-2006, 01:51 PM   #56
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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I'd say his timetable is by the end of next year. I think we gave Patrick 3 years, Rivers is great after 3, Lil Manning is good after 3, Smith is pretty good after 2, Palmer was great after 3, Rothlessberger was good after 1, Leinart/Young look at least decent after 1, and Cutler looks IMO better than Campbell after 1.
I would say the only one that has played consistent this year is Rivers. Cutler looks sooooooo lost right now. But Young looks almost scary.
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Old 12-14-2006, 03:38 PM   #57
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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#1) I really find it hard to believe he's going against the play design in his dropbacks. With his level of inexperience I think they are having him drop back further so he has more time to go through his reads. He simply doesn't have the experience level yet in this offense to take a short drop, make a quick read and get the ball out.

#2) Yes he stares down his WRs and so does pretty much any QB with the limited experience level he has.

#3) I don't think he was rattled after the 2 picks at all, in fact he played a great second half going 7 of 12 for 100 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT.
#1 - Believe it. A buddy of mine rooms with one of the Redskin scouts. So, we have a few beers last night and I asked him about this stuff. I was thrilled to find out that I hit this one dead on the head. He said they have been working with him every week to break the habit of taking two many steps on the drop. They want him to set up in the pocket, and he works it in practice, but reverts during the games.

#2 - Well, not all of them do it, but I certainly agree that this does not make him unique. But, this was a critique, and you can't leave that out, even if it is a common flaw against young qb's.

#3 - He made some good plays in the second half, but he made even more slow reads. You can't mistake good plays as an excuse for poor ones. My buddy also confirmed this point. The thing you love is that he does have the potential to make some nice plays. He just doesn't have the confidence to deliver the ball on time, every time. That is his toughest challenge I think.
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Old 12-14-2006, 04:39 PM   #58
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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#1 - Believe it. A buddy of mine rooms with one of the Redskin scouts. So, we have a few beers last night and I asked him about this stuff. I was thrilled to find out that I hit this one dead on the head. He said they have been working with him every week to break the habit of taking two many steps on the drop. They want him to set up in the pocket, and he works it in practice, but reverts during the games.

#2 - Well, not all of them do it, but I certainly agree that this does not make him unique. But, this was a critique, and you can't leave that out, even if it is a common flaw against young qb's.

#3 - He made some good plays in the second half, but he made even more slow reads. You can't mistake good plays as an excuse for poor ones. My buddy also confirmed this point. The thing you love is that he does have the potential to make some nice plays. He just doesn't have the confidence to deliver the ball on time, every time. That is his toughest challenge I think.
There is an article out today (i'll try to find it) that AS's sais the exact same thing. He drops back to far. There are other flaws that will have to be worked out in the offseason. They want to start w/ his feet and work their way up.
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Old 12-14-2006, 04:41 PM   #59
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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There is an article out today (i'll try to find it) that AS's sais the exact same thing. He drops back to far. There are other flaws that will have to be worked out in the offseason. They want to start w/ his feet and work their way up.
Yeah it's in the Washington Post. Basically saying Campbell needs to speed up everything
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Old 12-14-2006, 04:41 PM   #60
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Re: Jason Campbell..What's his time table?

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#1) I really find it hard to believe he's going against the play design in his dropbacks. With his level of inexperience I think they are having him drop back further so he has more time to go through his reads. He simply doesn't have the experience level yet in this offense to take a short drop, make a quick read and get the ball out.

#2) Yes he stares down his WRs and so does pretty much any QB with the limited experience level he has.

#3) I don't think he was rattled after the 2 picks at all, in fact he played a great second half going 7 of 12 for 100 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT.
Al Saunder's qoute in today's Post...

"You start with his feet and we've said that since training camp, and move up," said Saunders, who oversees the Redskins' offense. "His drops have got to be quicker, his rhythm has got to be quicker, his release has got to be more compact, his decision-making process has got to speed up. He's a victim of his own great physical ability. In high school, he could stand back and wait for a receiver to get open and the velocity of the ball would get there before a little guy who just came from chemistry class could go and break it up. And he played against Vanderbilt [in college], and he's flushed out of the pocket and throws downfield and the ball gets there before the nuclear physicist two years down the road can get there.
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