Seven Steps to Redskins Renewal

hail_2_da_skins · 12-12-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

Seems to me you have some contradictions in here...more specifically,
3. Admit that the 2006 Washington Redskin organization has not put the team in the best position to win football games. and 7. Trust that Joe Gibbs and his staff will access the team's strengths and weaknesses and adjust in the offseason accordingly.

While we must trust them for the sake of continuity, i am VERY skeptical of their ability to work together- well, at this point. seems to me that this is the case study for the too many chiefs argument.

I wouldn't say that these two are contradictory. I think we can say that the organization made mistakes this year and did not put the team in a good position to win games but at year's end, they can access where the team stands and adjust accordingly. As fans, we have to trust that they know what they are doing.

skinsfan69 · 12-12-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Is Archuleta the only move he made? Did you mistrust him when we got Portis, Taylor, Cooley, Washington, Moss and jetissoned guys like McCants, Bowen, Gardner?

I mean yeah he's made mistakes. And chances are he will again. But it's not as if it's one bad move after another and I don't know anyone can say he can't be trusted or can't evaluate anyone

Those were good moves. Especially Cooley. But anyone can go get a bunch of FA's if you have an owner that will spend for bonuses. It doesn't take a brillant FO person to get FA's. And if you ask me the jury is still out on Taylor. He really must improve on coverage and being a more disiplined player. But the bad moves are so bad that it's not even funny. They are just horrible moves. The Duckett move was the last straw for me. How does someone who is away from it for 11 years all of a sudden come in off the street and have complete control over personel? Makes no sense. Just coach the team. He's having a hard enough time doing that. Dick Vermeil didn't get full control when he came back. And he was at least doing broadcasting. But where are the 3rd and 4th round gems? Where are Marcus Colston's? Where are the Demarcus Ware's? This is what Bobby B. was so good at. Bottom line is hire a GM and make that person have complete control over personel and leave Gibbs to coaching.

skinsfan69 · 12-12-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hail_2_da_skins

I wouldn't say that these two are contradictory. I think we can say that the organization made mistakes this year and did not put the team in a good position to win games but at year's end, they can access where the team stands and adjust accordingly. As fans, we have to trust that they know what they are doing.

I won't trust them until a legit proven GM comes in here. I'm not forking over anymore $for season tickets until I see something done. I'm not coming out to the stadium anymore and watch them loose to Tenn. at home. Under Snyder we have made the playoffs once. 99 does not count cause Casserly set that team up. So if he really wants to win he is going to have to bring in someone who really knows how to do it.

SmootSmack · 12-12-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Those were good moves. Especially Cooley. But anyone can go get a bunch of FA's if you have an owner that will spend for bonuses. It doesn't take a brillant FO person to get FA's. And if you ask me the jury is still out on Taylor. He really must improve on coverage and being a more disiplined player. But the bad moves are so bad that it's not even funny. They are just horrible moves. The Duckett move was the last straw for me. How does someone who is away from it for 11 years all of a sudden come in off the street and have complete control over personel? Makes no sense. Just coach the team. He's having a hard enough time doing that. Dick Vermeil didn't get full control when he came back. And he was at least doing broadcasting. But where are the 3rd and 4th round gems? Where are Marcus Colston's? Where are the Demarcus Ware's? This is what Bobby B. was so good at. Bottom line is hire a GM and make that person have complete control over personel and leave Gibbs to coaching.

Well, just about every team passed on Colston over and over again. And Ware wasn't exactly a midround steal. He was a first round pick.

But really, the most interesting point you bring up is Duckett. Because I think this is one case where Gibbs the coach is at fault, not Gibbs the President. The move to get Duckett was good. A young, powerful back who has proven he can play in the league and could spell Portis and be insurance should Betts test the market (which of course didn't happen)

For whatever reason though, Duckett barely saw the field but I really don't think Gibbs the President traded for him thinking Gibbs the Player had no place for him on the field.

skinsfan69 · 12-12-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Well, just about every team passed on Colston over and over again. And Ware wasn't exactly a midround steal. He was a first round pick.

But really, the most interesting point you bring up is Duckett. Because I think this is one case where Gibbs the coach is at fault, not Gibbs the President. The move to get Duckett was good. A young, powerful back who has proven he can play in the league and could spell Portis and be insurance should Betts test the market (which of course didn't happen)

For whatever reason though, Duckett barely saw the field but I really don't think Gibbs the President traded for him thinking Gibbs the Player had no place for him on the field.

Sorry but giving up a 3rd rounder for him is just absurd. When you have injuries back-ups come in and perform. You see it all around the league. Devry Henderson sure played well in place of Horn on Sun didn't he? Plus they could have used Sellers as a big back. He was running very well during the preseason. If you wanted to bring in Duckett fine. Bring him in after the season is over and get him for nothing. Plus, (and this is the big thing for me) Duckett does not play teams. If you are a back-up YOU MUST play teams. He is just not a versitile enough player that could justify a 3rd round pick. If we draft someone in the 3rd round chances are that player is going to play teams. Right? PLUS if Gibbs looked at the film he would have saw that Rock C. could run if needed. So that move was just a waste.

GTripp0012 · 12-12-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Sorry but giving up a 3rd rounder for him is just absurd. When you have injuries back-ups come in and perform. You see it all around the league. Devry Henderson sure played well in place of Horn on Sun didn't he? Plus they could have used Sellers as a big back. He was running very well during the preseason. If you wanted to bring in Duckett fine. Bring him in after the season is over and get him for nothing. Plus, (and this is the big thing for me) Duckett does not play teams. If you are a back-up YOU MUST play teams. He is just not a versitile enough player that could justify a 3rd round pick. If we draft someone in the 3rd round chances are that player is going to play teams. Right? PLUS if Gibbs looked at the film he would have saw that Rock C. could run if needed. So that move was just a waste.

I agree that the Duckett move was a bad move, but only because the back acquired was the wrong guy.

TAF's point is that Coach Joe Gibbs noticed a need for a quality running back, so he pulled the trigger on Duckett. But it was Team President Joe Gibbs who made the mistake. Some simple film study would have shown that Duckett doesn't run like a big back. He's timid, tiptoes, takes forever to get from the I to the line, and is best in open space. We already had Ladell Betts and Rock Cartwright who are both probably better runners than Duckett. And the 3rd was probably far too much to send for him. I think Gibbs was willing to pay for a name that defenses would respect if Portis couldn't play, but a 3rd could have bought a much better player than Duckett, a borderline bust.

Coach Gibbs was trying to fill a need. Someone should have been there to point out that Duckett wasn't going to fill our need.

Luckily for us, Betts stepped up and filled the need, so the only thing we are out is a 3rd round pick.

SmootSmack · 12-12-2006, 07:20 PM

I'm not even sure what my point was anymore. Basically, good move to go after another back (though I agree Sellers should have gotten more of a chance) but bad move in the use of the move

GTripp0012 · 12-12-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I'm not even sure what my point was anymore. Basically, good move to go after another back (though I agree Sellers should have gotten more of a chance) but bad move in the use of the move

I think if you are attributing the necessity for the move to Portis' injury, I think that is a fair point. Sellers doesn't have the rep that would make D's respect the run if Portis had to be IRed before the season. But TJ Duckett? That's the problem. Michael Bennett was available, as was Thomas Jones. TJ Duckett just isn't a good power back.

GTripp0012 · 12-12-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

If this was anyone else he would be run out of town.

But the point is that its not anyone else, its Joe Gibbs.

GTripp0012 · 12-12-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgack

He's accountable for it, but I'm not so sure he's responsible for it. There's a big difference.

Indeed. Couldn't have said it better myself.

dgack · 12-12-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But TJ Duckett? That's the problem. Michael Bennett was available, as was Thomas Jones. TJ Duckett just isn't a good power back.

I think the Bears realized what they had with Jones (who signed a monster contract right before they drafted Benson) once it became clear that Benson was unreliable. I'm sure they wouldn't have parted with him cheaply.

Mike "Chandelier" Bennett? No thanks. The last thing we need around here is another guy who breaks when you look at him sideways.

Remember that Duckett was Atlanta's version of Jerome Bettis at one point and was only forestalled from becoming the feature back there because Warrick Dunn keeps coming back each year and playing strong when by all accounts he should be reading his AARP subscription and playing shuffleboard. I think Duckett was a great "Gibbs back", I'm just puzzled why he wasn't thrown into the mix.

Of course I've said it before, the few times Sellers has gotten carries in the red zone I got dollar signs in my eyes. He's a bad man, and I have no idea why we haven't been using him in that capacity, either.

But then again, for as much as I love Joe, he admits now to something I thought odd a few years ago; namely completely misjudging how good of a back Betts is. So I guess it's entirely possible he just hasn't figured out yet that Sellers + red zone = paydirt (+ bonus punishment for any defenders unlucky enough to be between him and said paydirt).

skinsfan69 · 12-12-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But the point is that its not anyone else, its Joe Gibbs.

I understand but the past doesn't buy you anything. He has shown no ability to judge personel. Some of the teams w/ good GM's are just laughing at us. I mean Gibbs said Desmond Howard had no weaknesses.

dgack · 12-12-2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I understand but the past doesn't buy you anything. He has shown no ability to judge personel. Some of the teams w/ good GM's are just laughing at us. I mean Gibbs said Desmond Howard had no weaknesses.

He's flat out said his job is to bring in guys who have the intangibles and character we are allegedly looking for. This is why I suspect a lot of the player evaluation stuff is coming from other people who he's delegated to and trusts. Also why I say he's still accountable, but probably not ultimately responsible for a lot of the bad player evaluations.

Unfortunately the only way that problem gets solved is for whomever that trust/power/responsibility has been delegated to, to be removed, and it will take a lot of high profile screwups for that to happen.

skinsfan69 · 12-13-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgack

He's flat out said his job is to bring in guys who have the intangibles and character we are allegedly looking for. This is why I suspect a lot of the player evaluation stuff is coming from other people who he's delegated to and trusts. Also why I say he's still accountable, but probably not ultimately responsible for a lot of the bad player evaluations.

Unfortunately the only way that problem gets solved is for whomever that trust/power/responsibility has been delegated to, to be removed, and it will take a lot of high profile screwups for that to happen.

I assume Williams signed off on having Clark and Pierce leave. I guess he also thought AA, LM and AC were solid replacements. However Gibbs side of the ball is offense. IMO there was no need bring in two WR's. ARE would have been just fine. Thrash can play the 3rd wideout. Plus Thrash plays teams. Could have used the 3rd or 4th rounder we spent on LLoyd on a big wr and o-line or d-line depth.

Citizens for 81 · 12-13-2006, 06:11 AM

I thought this tread was a 12-step program to help me get over my addiction to football teams that suck (2006 redskins).

12-12-2006, 07:20 PM	#37
SmootSmack Mad Men Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,102	Re: Seven Steps to Redskins Renewal I'm not even sure what my point was anymore. Basically, good move to go after another back (though I agree Sellers should have gotten more of a chance) but bad move in the use of the move __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

12-13-2006, 06:11 AM	#45
Citizens for 81 Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 39 Posts: 410	Re: Seven Steps to Redskins Renewal I thought this tread was a 12-step program to help me get over my addiction to football teams that suck (2006 redskins). __________________ "At night there is no such thing as an ugly woman." Ovid (43 B.C.- A.D. 17)

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