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Old 12-27-2006, 04:45 PM   #31
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

So, after this showing against the Rams, doesn't it say that the performance we saw against the Saints was more due to the Saints having a bad day?
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Old 12-27-2006, 04:50 PM   #32
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

Our defense is horrible and lost us at least 4 games just by themselves. Anyone who can't see that isn't paying close enough attention. Just because the offense didn't go out and score 35 points every game doesn't make it their fault. The defense has to be able to maintain field position, stop teams on 3rd down, stop teams at the end of the game and create some turnovers. We basically didn't do any of those things. I think it is not a stretch to say that if our defense was even middle of the road this year our offense probably averages 4 or 5 more points a game simply because of field possession and time of possession.

Our offense was OK and our defense was horrid. That adds up to 5-10.

Plus this team is predicated on relying on our D based on the last 2 years. The whole offensive "tweaking" was made thinking that our D would keep us in games as we adjusted early on. Too bad that didn't work out.
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Old 12-27-2006, 05:00 PM   #33
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

This got me thinking about a specific play versus the Rams. Rocky was playing outside and I think someone motioned for him at the last minute to play the middle to stop the run. He got there just as the ball was snapped and dove forward stopping Stephen Jackson from getting the conversion. Nice play but it underlined the fact that a lot of our guys look like they don't know what they are supposed to be doing out there. Pierce was great at getting his guys into position and barking out his observations to his teammates to get them ready for the current play. Who does that for us now?
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Old 12-27-2006, 06:39 PM   #34
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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Originally Posted by Beemnseven View Post
So, after this showing against the Rams, doesn't it say that the performance we saw against the Saints was more due to the Saints having a bad day?
I think it was a combo of the Saints being off that day and our D actually played well for a change. We seemed to have a great game plan that day and everyone was flying to the ball. But those days have been few and far between.
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Old 12-27-2006, 08:52 PM   #35
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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Originally Posted by dblanch66 View Post
It is definitely due to the loss of such players as Pierce, Smoot, Ryan Clark, Arrington (hate to say). Despite being better players at their positions than what we have now, they also had fire, attitude and leadership qualities. We all have bitched and moaned about Lavar's attitude ad naseum, but I remember when he was the spirit of the team. When that fades and ultimately becomes acrimonious, the team will suffer and it has. The Redskins have absolutely NO identity on defense. On offense, we had Santana and Clinton. But with CP's injury, we lost the lynch pin and spirit of the O. There is more to the game than just physical talent. The Redskins have no IDENTITY. That's what needs to change in order to have success next year.
Dallas Sucks.

The defense played very well last year (9th overall) without Pierce, Smoot, and very little by way of contribution from LaVar for the last two seasons. Lemar Marshall was an overachiever at the MLB position, and this season played after having offseason shoulder surgery. The loss of Pierson Prioleau and Ryan Clark, coupled with the injuries to Shawn Springs really hurt the secondary, but not to the extent we go from 9th in the league to last. The defense this year did not play with the same disposition it did the past two seasons. They were not attacking the ball in the same fashion which in many ways explains their lack of take-a-way's. I'm inclined to agree with Phillip Daniels when he said he felt it was overconfidence. "We thought we could just roll our helmets out there and get a win".
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Old 12-27-2006, 08:58 PM   #36
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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Originally Posted by mheisig View Post
We're 2nd best in the league for giveaways with 15 (1 more than San Diego). Unfortunately we're worst in the league in takeaways.

Means the offense has done an excellent job NOT turning it over, and that's with a young, inexperienced QB and a backup RB. The defense, on the other hand, can't force a turnover to save it's life.
That has to also prove that Betts is not the fumbler that people are saying that he is
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Old 12-27-2006, 09:07 PM   #37
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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That has to also prove that Betts is not the fumbler that people are saying that he is
He also didn't have very many carries in the first part of the year.

The term "fumbler" means different things to different people. Earnest Byner was not a "fumbler", but he is probably best known for fumbling in the 1987 AFC Championship game against Denver. He might have put the ball on the ground one or two other times for the rest of his career.

Stephen Davis on the other hand, and to a certain extent, Gerald Riggs were fumblers. I'd say if you fumble it two times or more in the same season, you've earned the label. Betts did it against Tampa Bay and against the Rams (that I can think of). That's not as agregious as say, Tiki Barber - who was also known as a notorious fumbler before Coughlin started coaching him - but it does start to raise the eyebrows.

Like it or not, in this league if you fumble it more than once in a season, and have demonstrated a history of it -- your a fumbler. Plain and simple.
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Old 12-27-2006, 09:21 PM   #38
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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He also didn't have very many carries in the first part of the year.

The term "fumbler" means different things to different people. Earnest Byner was not a "fumbler", but he is probably best known for fumbling in the 1987 AFC Championship game against Denver. He might have put the ball on the ground one or two other times for the rest of his career.

Stephen Davis on the other hand, and to a certain extent, Gerald Riggs were fumblers. I'd say if you fumble it two times or more in the same season, you've earned the label. Betts did it against Tampa Bay and against the Rams (that I can think of). That's not as agregious as say, Tiki Barber - who was also known as a notorious fumbler before Coughlin started coaching him - but it does start to raise the eyebrows.

Like it or not, in this league if you fumble it more than once in a season, and have demonstrated a history of it -- your a fumbler. Plain and simple.
MORE THAN ONCE IN A SEASON!!! ...You are kind of hard on a running back aren't you? I am sure that all or the majority of the starting running backs have more than one fumble therefore all have to be labled fumblers right?...I may be wrong but if you can give me a starter that has not fumbled more than once this year please do so and I will, gladly, eat my words.

LT and LJ and Steven Jackson has 2 so they are fumblers also right?... Tiki Barber 3..Shaun Alexander ....4...Willie Parker and Frank Gore 5 ...fumblers?

Why don't all these guys be benched they are awful backs!!!
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Old 12-27-2006, 09:39 PM   #39
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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...I may be wrong but if you can give me a starter that has not fumbled more than once this year please do so and I will, gladly, eat my words.
When did I say anything about Betts getting benched? And yes, 5 fumbles in one season most definitely gets you the fumbler identity in my book.

Anyhoo, as to your challenge, get ready to eat up...

Minimum 75 rushes, running backs in '06 without any fumbles:

Marion Barber (DAL)
Clinton Portis
Jerius Norwood (ATL)
Cedric Benson (CHI)
Lamont Jordan (OAK)

Those with just one in '06:

Joseph Addai (IND)
Brian Westbrook (PHI)
Thomas Jones (CHI)
Maurice Jones-Drew (JACK)
Julius Jones (DAL)
Warrick Dunn (ATL)
DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Lawrence Maroney (NE)

The list goes on and on. Again, the term means different things to different people. "Fast" Willie Parker has 5 fumbles for the year. And there were many RBs that had 2 or 3 fumbles. To me, Betts just hasn't had enough carries over his career to be labelled either way, but I think he's getting there.

Is he the worst fumbler ever? No. Does he fumble? Yes. Take that any way you want.
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Old 12-27-2006, 09:56 PM   #40
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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When did I say anything about Betts getting benched? And yes, 5 fumbles in one season most definitely gets you the fumbler identity in my book.

Anyhoo, as to your challenge, get ready to eat up...

Minimum 75 rushes, running backs in '06 without any fumbles:

Marion Barber (DAL)
Clinton Portis
Jerius Norwood (ATL)
Cedric Benson (CHI)
Lamont Jordan (OAK)

Those with just one in '06:

Joseph Addai (IND)
Brian Westbrook (PHI)
Thomas Jones (CHI)
Maurice Jones-Drew (JACK)
Julius Jones (DAL)
Warrick Dunn (ATL)
DeAngelo Williams (CAR)
Lawrence Maroney (NE)

The list goes on and on. Again, the term means different things to different people. "Fast" Willie Parker has 5 fumbles for the year. And there were many RBs that had 2 or 3 fumbles. To me, Betts just hasn't had enough carries over his career to be labelled either way, but I think he's getting there.

Is he the worst fumbler ever? No. Does he fumble? Yes. Take that any way you want.
LOL...out of all those guys that you named only about 5 are starters so besides those 5 the rest of the league starters are fumblers in your opinion? ....NO he has not been starting all year but he has probably the most carries of almost anyone in the past 6 weeks. Carrying the load with absolutely no pass offense is not as easy as it may seem defenses knows that he is going to be THE guy.
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Old 12-27-2006, 10:25 PM   #41
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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This is sarcasm, right??

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Old 12-27-2006, 10:28 PM   #42
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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How much worse would the D have to be for you to place the majority of the blame on them for this miserable season??

The D has hit rock bottom. They have been gashed by just about every back they've faced, and they've given up a ton of big plays in the passing game. Outside of about 2-3 solid performances they've been downright awful, the worst overall D we've seen here in years.

I have no problem saying they are the main reason we are 5-10. No problem at all.
Allow me to join the not-quite-consensus-but-growing-mob who also have no problem saying the D is the reason we are 5-10.
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Old 12-27-2006, 11:33 PM   #43
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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How much worse would the D have to be for you to place the majority of the blame on them for this miserable season??

The D has hit rock bottom. They have been gashed by just about every back they've faced, and they've given up a ton of big plays in the passing game. Outside of about 2-3 solid performances they've been downright awful, the worst overall D we've seen here in years.

I have no problem saying they are the main reason we are 5-10. No problem at all.
Okay, you don't have a problem saying the defense is the main reason the team is 5-10. I don't have a problem with you saying it either, even if I don't think it's entirely true.

I have acknowledged the the defense has been awful. It's certainly part of the equation...but come on. The Redskins have failed to score at least 20 points 9 times this season, and it would have been 10 if not for a garbage time touchdown against the Colts. That's bad, but what's worse is that they lost 7 of those 9 games. In three of them (first Giants game, first Cowboys game, first Philly game) the offense didn't score a touchdown. In two others, they only scored one.

This is the NFL. 20 points per game isn't a good offense, it's an average one. Now if you want to get into reasons why the offense hasn't been consistantly effective- Portis, Campbell, Saunders, poor execution, inept playcalling, whatever you like- that's an entirely seperate matter. But the bottom line is that week after week, drives have stalled and critical points have been lost.

Is the defense awful? Sure- but I'm still not buying the idea that this team's woes are due to the defense any more than the offense.
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Old 12-27-2006, 11:41 PM   #44
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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This is the NFL. 20 points per game isn't a good offense, it's an average one. Now if you want to get into reasons why the offense hasn't been consistantly effective- Portis, Campbell, Saunders, poor execution, inept playcalling, whatever you like- that's an entirely seperate matter. But the bottom line is that week after week, drives have stalled and critical points have been lost.

Is the defense awful? Sure- but I'm still not buying the idea that this team's woes are due to the defense any more than the offense.
We're 5 or potentially 6 games worse than last year, and yet, with 1 game to go, are only 500 yards below last season's offensive output. We have put up ~40 yards less than the 13-2 Chicago Bears.

I just don't buy your argument. Of course we don't have a juggernaut offense this year. Didn't have one last year, either. Neither does Chicago have one. The big difference is that this year we don't have a defense that can make plays to help the offense. That IS a legitimate way to win in the NFL. I think you'll find a nearby team proved that strategy successful in 2000, with an offense just as average as this one.
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Old 12-27-2006, 11:51 PM   #45
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Re: Worst Defense in the NFL

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The defense played very well last year (9th overall) without Pierce, Smoot, and very little by way of contribution from LaVar for the last two seasons. Lemar Marshall was an overachiever at the MLB position, and this season played after having offseason shoulder surgery. The loss of Pierson Prioleau and Ryan Clark, coupled with the injuries to Shawn Springs really hurt the secondary, but not to the extent we go from 9th in the league to last. The defense this year did not play with the same disposition it did the past two seasons. They were not attacking the ball in the same fashion which in many ways explains their lack of take-a-way's. I'm inclined to agree with Phillip Daniels when he said he felt it was overconfidence. "We thought we could just roll our helmets out there and get a win".
You are right there was definitely a change in the defense this year. Earlier in the year we would blitz AA constantly and he was not getting anywhere near the QB and when we did not blitz him he was getting burned on deep passes. His partner Sean Taylor, who has the same talents as a Ed Reed, Palamalou and Roy Williams, does not know when and when not to go for the big hit so often times he whiffs and the receiver/ running back that he is trying to kill is running untouched down the field. Carlos Rogers can not defend a #1 receiver so he is better when Springs is not hurt...

Linebackers: The past couple of years I could almost count on Washington or Marshall to make a big play in a game but this year it was not happening and Warrick Holdman was just taking up space on the field.

Defensive Line: Andre Carter was probably our best aquisition this year and I think that his great play will carry over to next year. Golston played well early in the year but I think that he hit a rookie wall or something and he did not produce in the back part of this season but I think that he and Salave'a can do alright at the tackle positions ( I love Salave'as' aggresiveness when he is not hurt) but the other DE position has to be addressed in the offseason, neither Daniels nor Wynn is going to make this defense any better.

all and all we have lots of work to do to this squad
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