Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-11-2007, 12:02 PM   #46
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 35
Posts: 8,293
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
They are not going to revolt. What are they not going to show up for work and cash their large paychecks? Boycott becasue Dock didn't get paid? I don't think so. I'm sure they will be disappointed but they realize that this is business. Guys come and go all the time. Look at the guy that left Seattle for Minn? It's all about who's going to pay me the most money. If Dock can't get the deal he wants here, and someone overpays for him, then let him walk. He's a good player buy not the best and he should not be paid like the best.
Not a revolt in the sense that they'll boycott practice and all that kind of crap. But a revolt in the sense that they'll get all pissed off at the front office, and we'll have guys complaining anonymously to Tom Friend about how the front office just pays lip service to retaining "Core Redskins."

If Gibbs is going to toss around this "Core Redskin" stuff, he better make sure that the players feel like it means something to be a "Core Redskin." The perception is growing amongst the players that the front office values outside free agents over home grown players - and I can't blame them for it. It's hard to run through a wall for your coach when you are feeling like you're not valued as much as an equal guy out on the market.

Player perceptions of your coaching structure should not be discounted, they have an impact on the locker room. The trouble we have is that Gibbs is GM and coach all wrapped into one. So if the players have a problem with how the 'Skins are valuing their homegrown talent, they have a problem with Gibbs. (Probably the biggest reason why the coach needs to stick to coaching, and GMs need to stick to contract negotiation. We could use a separate GM.)

Gibbs may have to make a tough decision. Overpay a little bit for Dockery, or risk losing standing in the minds of the offensive line - probably the most valuable and most respected unit on the team. Plenty of players are already frustrated at him for letting Clark go and signing crappy Archuleta for a pile of money. Same with Antonio Pierce. Let's not repeat the same mistakes.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 01-11-2007, 12:37 PM   #47
Karma Chameleon (I come and go)
 
jdlea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Annapolis, MD
Age: 29
Posts: 3,087
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim21Reaper View Post
Portis set the franchise record and they went to the playoff's in Rabach's first season.
I didn't say they sucked, I was merely pointing out they had some growing pains...didn't they have some issues in pass protection early? I actually don't remember anymore, but I thought they were shaky in pass coverage early, could be wrong.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack
Albert Connell is perhaps the worst Redskin I ever had the misfortune of meeting. He's the kind of guy that makes media people covering their favorite team growing up no longer like that team
jdlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 12:44 PM   #48
Playmaker
 
SouperMeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Leesburg, VA
Age: 50
Posts: 3,075
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
I smell trouble on this one, a whole heap of trouble.

Gibbs has a way of digging in his heels, insisting that Marcus Washington was better than Antonio Pierce, so Pierce should not have been paid more than Marcus. I'm guessing they're thinking along those lines for Randy Thomas and Dock. I'll bet Dock is asking for Randy T money, and Gibbs/Snyder and company won't budge.

...
Using that logic, I suppose that Gibbs thought Archuleta would be a better player than Sean Taylor.
SouperMeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:01 PM   #49
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 35
Posts: 8,293
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouperMeister View Post
Using that logic, I suppose that Gibbs thought Archuleta would be a better player than Sean Taylor.
That's exactly what annoyed the players so much. The 'Skins apply that relative salary logic to their homegrown players, but they'll blow open the pay scale for outside free agents.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:08 PM   #50
I like big (_|_)s.
 
TheMalcolmConnection's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lexington, Virginia
Age: 32
Posts: 17,486
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Speaking of Clark, I've been talking with some people on AIM and wondering what the likelihood would be for him to come back.
__________________
Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.
TheMalcolmConnection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:14 PM   #51
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

I really wonder how much say Gibbs has when it comes to $$. I know he said those things about Smoot & Washington, but from all I've read, Gibbs doesn't get into negotiations, just personnel. For all we know there could've been a serious disconnect between he & Vinny/Danny in the signings of AA, Loyd & Carter. Gibbs may have said let's sign em, but not at those prices.
If this is an issue, it will certainly have to surface publicly at some point, even if a few years down the road.
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:15 PM   #52
Fight for old DC!
 
Redskins_P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Falls Church, VA
Age: 36
Posts: 4,085
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection View Post
Speaking of Clark, I've been talking with some people on AIM and wondering what the likelihood would be for him to come back.
Well, are there rumors of the Steelers cutting him? I think it would be a no-brainer to bring him back....if he's available.
Redskins_P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:26 PM   #53
I like big (_|_)s.
 
TheMalcolmConnection's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lexington, Virginia
Age: 32
Posts: 17,486
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

I think someone mentioned it on the radio maybe?
__________________
Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.
TheMalcolmConnection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:35 PM   #54
Franchise Player
 
skinsfan69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arlington, VA.
Posts: 9,443
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Not a revolt in the sense that they'll boycott practice and all that kind of crap. But a revolt in the sense that they'll get all pissed off at the front office, and we'll have guys complaining anonymously to Tom Friend about how the front office just pays lip service to retaining "Core Redskins."

If Gibbs is going to toss around this "Core Redskin" stuff, he better make sure that the players feel like it means something to be a "Core Redskin." The perception is growing amongst the players that the front office values outside free agents over home grown players - and I can't blame them for it. It's hard to run through a wall for your coach when you are feeling like you're not valued as much as an equal guy out on the market.

Player perceptions of your coaching structure should not be discounted, they have an impact on the locker room. The trouble we have is that Gibbs is GM and coach all wrapped into one. So if the players have a problem with how the 'Skins are valuing their homegrown talent, they have a problem with Gibbs. (Probably the biggest reason why the coach needs to stick to coaching, and GMs need to stick to contract negotiation. We could use a separate GM.)

Gibbs may have to make a tough decision. Overpay a little bit for Dockery, or risk losing standing in the minds of the offensive line - probably the most valuable and most respected unit on the team. Plenty of players are already frustrated at him for letting Clark go and signing crappy Archuleta for a pile of money. Same with Antonio Pierce. Let's not repeat the same mistakes.
So what your saying is we should possibly overpay for him for the sake of the locker room? I would agree with you if we were 10 or 20 million under the cap. But is this team in a position to possibly overpay for someone when so many big bonuses have already been paid out? I think at this point we are three milllion over the cap. It looks like we are going to have to do a lot of slashing and restructuring. I hope he stays but at the right price.
skinsfan69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:47 PM   #55
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 35
Posts: 8,293
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinsfan69 View Post
So what your saying is we should possibly overpay for him for the sake of the locker room? I would agree with you if we were 10 or 20 million under the cap. But is this team in a position to possibly overpay for someone when so many big bonuses have already been paid out? I think at this point we are three milllion over the cap. It looks like we are going to have to do a lot of slashing and restructuring. I hope he stays but at the right price.
Three million over is a high estimate. I think the actual number is about $2 or $3 million under.

Secondly there is lots of room for restructuring. Players are due high base salaries this season which are easily renogotiated into lump sum signing bonuses. Win for the team (frees up space), win for the player (gets paid what the contract states, except gets it in one lump sum instead of spread out in game checks).

Even if we signed Dockery to a 6 year, $35 million deal, with a $10 million signing bonus, they would structure it so that he'd only cost us $2.5 million against the cap in 2007.

PS I'm not saying we should pay him that, but this is just to illustrate that whatever we sign him for, his 2007 cap hit should not be a problem for us.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:55 PM   #56
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 35
Posts: 8,293
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

And yes, I think the team should be willing to overpay a little bit in this instance. They need to build up a little bit more good will in the locker room, because players are friggin pissed.

Plus, it just makes sense. Dockery represents continuity. Keep him here, and Samuels doesn't have to adjust to someone else. Continuity and familiarity are key on the offensive line.

Dockery is the 2nd best guard available in free agency. Eric Steinbach is widely regarded as the top guard. But to us, I think Dockery is more valuable than Steinbach, because there will be no learning curve with him. We should feel comfortable stretching our budget on Dockery up to whatever Steinbach is worth in the open market.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2007, 01:57 PM   #57
Impact Rookie
 
Bill B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 721
Re: No progress in Dockery Negotiations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Three million over is a high estimate. I think the actual number is about $2 or $3 million under.

Secondly there is lots of room for restructuring. Players are due high base salaries this season which are easily renogotiated into lump sum signing bonuses. Win for the team (frees up space), win for the player (gets paid what the contract states, except gets it in one lump sum instead of spread out in game checks).

Even if we signed Dockery to a 6 year, $35 million deal, with a $10 million signing bonus, they would structure it so that he'd only cost us $2.5 million against the cap in 2007.
Schneed - I know you say win for the team but what about the dead cap hit in the future - wouldn't that be considered a "loss for the team" at some point in the future? At some point won't the team have to pay the piper for all the dead cap space on salary renegotiations - if I am correct isn't this what happened to the Titans and they had to basically release a bunch of good players like Samare Rolle and they had a dismal season?

I guess you can say that the cap will keep going up so we can keep renegotiating and Synder has the ATM machine cranking with bonuses to keep doing this, but if you were the GM wouldn't it be an issue to contain/minimize dead cap space as far as long range planning goes to avoid what happened to the Titans? Especially since the NFL has shortened the amount of years you can spread the bonus over (I believe it was 6 or 7 and it is now 4).
Bill B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 08:52 AM   #58
MVP
 
dmek25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: lancaster,pa
Age: 52
Posts: 10,515
Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....

does anyone know if there has been any movement on dockerys contract?
__________________
"It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
courtesy of 53fan
dmek25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 09:16 AM   #59
Playmaker
 
Defensewins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,847
Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....

I'm not worried about Dockery getting signed. There will not be huge demand for him in the FA market. HE is not a huge talent. He is just big, strong and slow. There are a ton of guys like Dockery out there.
I think some of you guys are reading way too much into continuity. Talent overcomes any continuity issues.
Look at the Chargers, they have a rookie Marcus McNeill playing tackle and two years ago they drafted a Tackle Shane Olivea (7th round) and center (3rd round), they started their rookies year and took them to the playoffs.
For those of you that are going to say they have LT at RB, well we have Portis. He is a top 5 RB in the NFL.
Defensewins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2007, 09:16 AM   #60
Special Teams
 
squrrelco3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norfolk
Age: 38
Posts: 429
Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....

Right now the 'skins are $2.891m over the 2007 NFL cap number of $109m*. I would not expect too much movement until after Jun 1 when the first round of cuts are made barring some form of major restructuring by other players such as Brunell etc.

*source CPND cap info center
__________________
I got nothin'
squrrelco3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.34270 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25