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Considering moving Springs to safety...

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Old 01-26-2007, 10:45 AM   #31
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

I think Rogers will be okay. I think there was a serious breakdwon in our coaching this year, I don't care what anyone says. If you have one guy down, and your defense can't adjust, that's a coaching and a scheming issue to me.

On a lot of the big plays we gave up this year, it seems that guys were constantly way out of position or nowhere near the ball. Taylor was often chasing people down from behind, when Archuletta did play, he was typically pursuing from behind, same with Rogers. I just refuse to believe that this group of talented guys have fallen off that much in, what, two years.

That being said, I'll put those dropped interceptions squarely on Rogers. But even still, I don't feel like they utilized him to the best of his ability. For instance, why do you play a guy with his speed that far off the receiver? Why not develop that shutdown mentality?

My only knock on Williams is that it seems like he played it safe all year long and it killed us. Getting turnovers are a result of letting guys play and taking risks. For all the good things Gregg Williams has done and for all the praise he gets, it just seems that one elment, the turnover factor, has seemed to be missing since he arrived here.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:10 AM   #32
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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My favorite Rodgers interview was the one after the Tampa Bay game, when they asked him about the play where Joey Galloway burned him on that slant for a touchdown. This is not verbatim, but he said something like, what did you expect? They ran a play action and I had single coverage against "the fastest guy in the NFL," what was I supposed to do? At this point, my opinion about him kinda changed, who says something like that? Ha, even Carlos admits he can't cover people when he doesn't have help. You're a professional, Carlos, man up and make a freakin play boy.
Please, explain to me WHAT Rogers could have done on that play. There's nothing you can do in single coverage vs a slant, especially someone with that type of speed. I remember talking to gmanc during the game, we both agreed that Rogers wasn't put in a position to make a play. That's nearly an impossible play for a DB to make.

Maybe this is why the Redskins don't draft. One of the hardest positions in the NFL to play, and our top pick of only two years ago, should be playing like an all-pro? It takes time to learn, get used to the NFL, etc. We need to give our draft picks time to adjust and learn how to play, and I think Rogers will be our #1 corner in a few years and will be great.

Rogers is a very solid player and will only get better. We all talked about Jason Campbells rookie mistakes, why isn't Rogers who was drafted in the same year allowed to have them.

No pass rush, very little help from the safeties and even the other corner. Put this guy in a position to break up plays, etc and he'll get them. Answer me this: what other DB even got in position to make INTs this year. The answer is none.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:23 AM   #33
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

some of the play making corners jump the slant route, either intercepting the pass, or at least knock it down. but i am not ready to give up on rogers, just yet. if he has another season like this years, then i start to worry
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:37 AM   #34
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

The only legitimate complaint you can make about Rogers are his brick hands. The nice thing about the ball hitting his hands so often, though, is the fact that he's there to make some sort of play on the ball rather than be 5 yards away or on his butt. A CB is going to get burnt, no doubt. What's an acceptable amount of plays in which the CB does get burnt in a season? 4? 5? I'd say 4 that leads to a score (TD or ensuing FG)
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:42 AM   #35
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

I was hoping to see a little more improvement from Rogers this year but at the same time with the total collapse of the D in general it's tough to point fingers at individuals.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:43 AM   #36
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

Right, because can you seriously say ANYONE played stellar on the defensive side of the ball?
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:48 AM   #37
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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Right, because can you seriously say ANYONE played stellar on the defensive side of the ball?
Nope.

Nobody played consistently well all season.
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Old 01-26-2007, 12:28 PM   #38
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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Please, explain to me WHAT Rogers could have done on that play. There's nothing you can do in single coverage vs a slant, especially someone with that type of speed. I remember talking to gmanc during the game, we both agreed that Rogers wasn't put in a position to make a play. That's nearly an impossible play for a DB to make.

Maybe this is why the Redskins don't draft. One of the hardest positions in the NFL to play, and our top pick of only two years ago, should be playing like an all-pro? It takes time to learn, get used to the NFL, etc. We need to give our draft picks time to adjust and learn how to play, and I think Rogers will be our #1 corner in a few years and will be great.

Rogers is a very solid player and will only get better. We all talked about Jason Campbells rookie mistakes, why isn't Rogers who was drafted in the same year allowed to have them.

No pass rush, very little help from the safeties and even the other corner. Put this guy in a position to break up plays, etc and he'll get them. Answer me this: what other DB even got in position to make INTs this year. The answer is none.
Maybe it's a tough play to defend, and the receiver does have the advantage, but it can still be done. I see corners jump slant routes often enough to believe that it's not too inconceivable. What do I think Rodgers should have done on that play? Not given the "fastet guy in the NFL" a ten yard cusion, and let him get up to full speed. There's one thing I can think of.
I agree with you in the fact that the odds were against him on making a play on that ball, but I think it was ridiculous that he told the media that there was nothing he could do about it. He just sounded so nonchalant when he said it. Yeah man, no big deal, my man burned me for a TD, but hey, there's nothing I could do about that one. His reaction to the play is what really bothered me, not so much that he let up the TD. I just think he woulda sounded a little more classy if he said something like, Joey put a good move on me, I gotta work on jumping those slant routes in practice next week. Not, there's nothing I can do about it, that just sounds like a bad attitude to me.
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Old 01-26-2007, 12:32 PM   #39
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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Maybe it's a tough play to defend, and the receiver does have the advantage, but it can still be done. I see corners jump slant routes often enough to believe that it's not too inconceivable. What do I think Rodgers should have done on that play? Not given the "fastet guy in the NFL" a ten yard cusion, and let him get up to full speed. There's one thing I can think of.
I agree with you in the fact that the odds were against him on making a play on that ball, but I think it was ridiculous that he told the media that there was nothing he could do about it. He just sounded so nonchalant when he said it. Yeah man, no big deal, my man burned me for a TD, but hey, there's nothing I could do about that one. His reaction to the play is what really bothered me, not so much that he let up the TD. I just think he woulda sounded a little more classy if he said something like, Joey put a good move on me, I gotta work on jumping those slant routes in practice next week. Not, there's nothing I can do about it, that just sounds like a bad attitude to me.

I think his response about nothing he could do about it, perhaps, had something to do with "me doing what I'm taught to do" more than "me not actually being able to something to prevent it."

Have you ever wondered why we play our corners so far off the receiver?
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Old 01-26-2007, 12:47 PM   #40
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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I think his response about nothing he could do about it, perhaps, had something to do with "me doing what I'm taught to do" more than "me not actually being able to something to prevent it."

Have you ever wondered why we play our corners so far off the receiver?
Well, I still don't like it, not matter what the circumstances are. I guess it's just my opinion. I just feel like you can always make a play. What if we were playing the Chargers and LT got into the secondary on a run, and Rodgers was one on one with him, and needs to make the tackle or he scores at touchdown, and he can't bring him down and LT scores. Is it ok if he tells the media, hey, I'm just a cornerback, trying to tackle the best running back in the league, nothing I could do about it. IMO, no way. I don't think he'd get blamed for not making the tackle, but still, you always have a chance.
As far as that huge cussion goes. I'm really don't think that anyone knows for sure if Williams is telling him to do that, or if he does that by himself. djnemo65 wrote "Williams went out of his way to say that Rogers had not been coached to give up the huge cushion he was giving." Talking about after the Carolina game. So, I don't know that answer. Djnemo65, where did you hear that?
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Old 01-26-2007, 12:50 PM   #41
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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Well, I still don't like it, not matter what the circumstances are. I guess it's just my opinion. I just feel like you can always make a play. What if we were playing the Chargers and LT got into the secondary on a run, and Rodgers was one on one with him, and needs to make the tackle or he scores at touchdown, and he can't bring him down and LT scores. Is it ok if he tells the media, hey, I'm just a cornerback, trying to tackle the best running back in the league, nothing I could do about it. IMO, no way. I don't think he'd get blamed for not making the tackle, but still, you always have a chance.
As far as that huge cussion goes. I'm really don't think that anyone knows for sure if Williams is telling him to do that, or if he does that by himself. djnemo65 wrote "Williams went out of his way to say that Rogers had not been coached to give up the huge cushion he was giving." Talking about after the Carolina game. So, I don't know that answer. Djnemo65, where did you hear that?

I think it is by Williams' design that they give that huge cushion. But to your point, it is disturbing to hear a defender respond like that about not making plays.
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Old 01-26-2007, 01:32 PM   #42
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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Thank you TAF. You know I'd have to weigh in since it burns me deep in my soul when people fall into this "mob mentality" and instantly label someone as a bust just because other people are saying it. He had maybe 2-3 what I would call "bad" games this year. Sure, I definitely agree he HAS TO CATCH INTERCEPTIONS, and if he did, how many would he have, 5-6? More?

Again, Kenny Wright covering the opposing team's starting receivers was our problem in the secondary, not Rogers. Once Springs was back in the starting lineup, things starting looking pretty damn good back there.
Thank you TheMalcolmConnection. That is the only reason I got involved in this link.
In one link people talk big about core Redskins and loyalty, then in the next link they trash a player for a few bad games over the course of an entire BAD season.
The bad play of the defense was not all Roger's fault. If the entire defense played well/great and it was only Rogers getting burned then bench and bash him. But the entire defense played like crap. Sean Taylor even looked bad last year, but HE is still a great player.
Another thing to keep in mind is CB's play on an island. It is so easy to see their mistakes and their mistakes are usually magnified by the result, usually a big play(TD) and then it is repeated a millions times in the highlight reels of a WR/QB. If a DT, DE, LB or OG makes a mistake, you might not even realize it and it might not even cost the team much.
Rogers is a very young player that has made mistakes on the field. Big deal, 90%-95% of young players look bad at the beginning of their careers. Some of them overcome this and become solid pros.
I am for giving him another chance to redeem himself. He will come back hungry and hopefully the rest of the defense will improve as well.
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Old 01-26-2007, 02:47 PM   #43
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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C. Rogers ran a 4.31 at the NFL combine which is what elevated him to top half of first round.
Here is link: NFL.com - NFL News

Which said, "In 2005, 11 defensive backs ran their 40-yard dash in times of 4.40 and under. Of the 11, six ran for times of 4.35 and under. Of those six, Carlos Rogers (4.31) and Fabian Washington (4.31) moved up into the first round.

People have every right to say C. Rogers has dissappointed. However I think he will work his way out of his inconsistant play. Playing CornerBack in the NFL is one of the toughest positions to play in any sport. With all of the new rules it is impossible to shut down a great receiver. Our pass rush from the front four has been a greater weakness for many years and leads to coverage problems. You can only cover a WR for so long.
I say lets give him another chance and not boo him. He is a good kid that works very hard, he deserves another chance. I bet if our front seven stops the run better and improves on the pass rush, all of our Db's confidance and coverage will also improve greatly. Out entire defense will improve. It all starts up front and this last year our front seven FAILD.
Correct. The push that opposing lines got against us in the run game was unbelievable. I think our production against the pass speaks for itself. With ends like Andre Carter, we can't afford to bench our great tackling corners, like Rogers. No one tries to run up the middle against us, everything is off tackle or outside the end.

Because of good tackling on the outside, we were league average vs. the run. We had a low ranking, but the rankings were skewed by teams like the Jets and the Colts being so much worse than anyone against the run.

Against the pass, GW was running a questionable coverage scheme, but also our linebackers just didn't get the job done. Most of the completions happened underneath our DBs for first downs. ST got beat deep every now and then due to overaggressiveness, but its got to be frusterating to watch an offense move the chains with ease, because the secondary is playing conservative, and the linebackers aren't a factor in the play.
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Old 01-26-2007, 04:11 PM   #44
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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Correct. The push that opposing lines got against us in the run game was unbelievable. I think our production against the pass speaks for itself. With ends like Andre Carter, we can't afford to bench our great tackling corners, like Rogers. No one tries to run up the middle against us, everything is off tackle or outside the end.
Excellent point. GW's scheme relies on the tackling ability of corners to stuff the run - hence Smoot's departure to Minnesota. Smoot missed more tackles/sacks than anyone I've ever seen don the burgundy and gold and when he did make a tackle he usually went to the sidelines with a stinger or something.
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Old 01-26-2007, 10:13 PM   #45
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Re: Considering moving Springs to safety...

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My favorite Rodgers interview was the one after the Tampa Bay game, when they asked him about the play where Joey Galloway burned him on that slant for a touchdown. This is not verbatim, but he said something like, what did you expect? They ran a play action and I had single coverage against "the fastest guy in the NFL," what was I supposed to do? At this point, my opinion about him kinda changed, who says something like that? Ha, even Carlos admits he can't cover people when he doesn't have help. You're a professional, Carlos, man up and make a freakin play boy.
I remember that play. Galloway ran a slant and was gone. Where was a safety? That wasn't all Rogers fault the scheme was just as much to blame. It wasn't like Galloway juked a safety, he got some space on the slant and that was it. Slants are supposed to be a guaranteed 5-10 yards. When you throw to TO or Rice you may be able to think TD but last year's version of Galloway? Um no. The scheme of that play had just as much to do with the TD.
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