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Old 01-27-2007, 02:42 PM   #16
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Re: NFC East Champ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davy View Post
Right now only a blind optimist would predict anything other than a last place finish in the division next year.
Well, let's take a look at some division winners in 2006 and see where they finished in 2005

NFC East: Eagles (2005 finish-last place in the division)
NFC South: Saints (2005 finish-last place in the division)
AFC North: Ravens (2005 finish-tied for last place in the division)

Not to mention the Jets who jumped from 4-12 and the cellar to 10-6 and a wild card spot.
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Old 01-27-2007, 06:31 PM   #17
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Re: NFC East Champ?

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Originally Posted by TAFKAS View Post
Well, let's take a look at some division winners in 2006 and see where they finished in 2005

NFC East: Eagles (2005 finish-last place in the division)
NFC South: Saints (2005 finish-last place in the division)
AFC North: Ravens (2005 finish-tied for last place in the division)

Not to mention the Jets who jumped from 4-12 and the cellar to 10-6 and a wild card spot.

All very good points. I loved the Jets this year. They just came out and surprised the living **** out of everyone and I like that. Next year WILL be good, I dont care if its supposed "blind-optimism" or not. Its kinda hard not to be a little optimistic about next year after you look at the big picture. We are going to be in a great postion next year to come out and rock the NFC East, and after that....ok, I'll shut up now. Maybe next month I'll say it....:-)
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Old 01-27-2007, 09:57 PM   #18
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Re: NFC East Champ?

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Originally Posted by davy View Post
Right now only a blind optimist would predict anything other than a last place finish in the division next year.
I didn't know I was blind, but I'm an optimist! Worst to first next season!
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Old 01-28-2007, 02:36 AM   #19
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Re: NFC East Champ?

I think we have to be looked on as a likely playoff team. Lets say the Bears, Panthers, Eagles, and Rams win their respective divisions next year. Who would you expect to be the wildcards? New Orleans? We beat them pretty good in their house in the midst of a horrid year. Atlanta? How unsettled is that offense? The Seahawks? A league average schedule would have cost this team about 3 more losses. Arizona? Still no line play. San Francisco? Probably a year away. Any non Bears team in the North? Giants? Cowboys? Cowboys? Cowboys?

It's not a weak conference as much as it is a parity laden conference. The AFC seems to be far more top heavy by comparison. So even if we don't win our division, we have a good shot at 9 or 10 wins and the wild card. A lot of teams could be good, but we are certainly one of those teams, and probably the best bet as is.

This team isn't a Super Bowl contender, but they could find themselves playing in January for sure.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:14 AM   #20
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Re: NFC East Champ?

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Originally Posted by davy View Post
Right now only a blind optimist would predict anything other than a last place finish in the division next year.
I haven't really sat down and looked at everything closely so I reserve the right to do a 360 on this one at any time. However, my knee-jerk, off-the-cuff reaction is that we (Skins fans as a group) are falling in to a familiar trap: other teams in the division have major issues + the Redskins occasionally flashed promise in the later half of the season + they have the offseason to tweak problem areas = Washington is definately a contender next year. I'm not buying this time around.

The rest of the NFC East may well have issues, but they did all make the playoffs, and the Redskins were 1-5 against this bunch.

There are indeed some reasons for optimism, Jason Campbell's continued development being the single largest one. On the whole, though, I see no reason to expect a dramatic improvement from Washington. From this year's soggy 5-11 finish, 8-8 would seem like a reasonable goal. I have stated before that increasingly it is my belief that this orgainzation is fatally flawed from a structural perspective- not just the on the field product but the appraoch to building it - and that the five game push to close 2005 looks more and more like an anaomolly. I would LOVE to have egg on my face about this later on, but until I see demonstrably better play on the field- not here and there but on a week-to-week basis -I will be skeptical that Gibbs II is on the right path.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:50 AM   #21
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Re: NFC East Champ?

Every year it is we have to be the favorite, look at our team, every one else stinks.. blah blah blah. where are the realistic Redskin fans, or the ones that obviously can see things objectively. we finished last, again. 2 out of 3 years in the Gibbs comeback. How you can say we are favored to win the division is crazy. the 3 teams ahead of us were in the freaking playoffs. And Philly didn't even have their #1 guy running the team. Dallas is going to be better no matter who they have running the team. Giants are going to be just as good and Philly, well we all know they are going to be good. Lets not forget, they have basically all their draft picks to improve the team. we have 4 picks, 1st then nothing until the 5th. So, how can anyone of you think we have an inside track to anything is just looney!! Be realistic people.
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Old 01-28-2007, 11:49 AM   #22
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Re: NFC East Champ?

While it is surely overly optimistic to claim that we have the inside track, it is equally absurd to say we have no shot or no realistic hope of winning the division. Anyone who has watched the NFL these past few years know that, with the exeption of the Patriots, Colts, and Texans, few teams can stay on top or on the bottom for long.


I simply think that any record (1-15 or 15-1) is fair game for the Redskins next season. While I tend to think we should probably end up with more wins than losses, who knows? Perhaps there are resident Nostradamuses here on thewarpath.net, but I am not one of them.
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Old 01-28-2007, 02:50 PM   #23
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Re: NFC East Champ?

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
While it is surely overly optimistic to claim that we have the inside track, it is equally absurd to say we have no shot or no realistic hope of winning the division. Anyone who has watched the NFL these past few years know that, with the exeption of the Patriots, Colts, and Texans, few teams can stay on top or on the bottom for long.


I simply think that any record (1-15 or 15-1) is fair game for the Redskins next season. While I tend to think we should probably end up with more wins than losses, who knows? Perhaps there are resident Nostradamuses here on thewarpath.net, but I am not one of them.
I agree that all teams have a "realistic hope" in this day and age, in that a "worst-to-first" scenario isn't as unheard of as it was in the 70s or 80s. But what the Redskins can hope for and what the best eductaed guess is based on the last few years are two different things.

With the exception of a sudden upswing at the end of 2005- the only surge of its type the last three years - Gibbs II has been sub .500 football the whole way (win one, lose two, win two, lose three, and so on). The 2007 team could be notably better than the 2006 edition and still miss the playoffs.

I'm not trying to be a downer and would love to be proven wrong- I've just been down this road two many times. Washington and Gibbs are going to have to show me their back among the contenders before I believe it.

Last edited by The Huddle; 01-28-2007 at 08:33 PM. Reason: clipped sentence in second paragraph
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Old 01-28-2007, 03:07 PM   #24
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Re: NFC East Champ?

We have as much talent as anyone in the division, especially offensivley. There should be no reason we cant put up 4 touchdowns a game with the offense we have.

Defensivley, its a huge question mark, i mean its very hard to gauge this team right now.

Philadelphia I would say looks the most stable out of any of the 4, so i'd think they are the favorites as well.
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Old 01-28-2007, 04:18 PM   #25
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Re: NFC East Champ?

#56fanatic:

I hope I fit your description as someone who can look at the team situation objectively. If you went to Las Vegas right now and got the sportsbooks there to post a line on the Redskins winning the NFC East, the Skins would not be even-money. They'd be a long-shot.

The Skins have limitations but they are not insurmountable. The problem here is that far too many fans buy into the "simple/quick fix is all we need" mentality that infests the front office. The fix is not simple and the team needs more than one of them. And here's a news flash: There isn't a "Football Fairy Godmother" who will magically appear and wave a wand and turn a pumpkin into an All-Pro. It'd be nice if there were, but ...

Here are four areas where the Redskins MUST improve next year to get out of the NFC basement. If they significantly improve all four, they might actually win the NFC East. The probability that they will do so is far less than 50/50.


1. The wide receivers have to do a whole lot better. Moss' season was disappointing to be polite and significantly below the worst that could have been expected from him to be more honest. Lloyd is a loser and a locker-room problem waiting to happen. Patten was AWOL for the second year in a row. Randle-El is a third down receiver and a good return man. Frankly, I think their second best receiver this year was James Thrash when you consider his blocking for the running game.


2. The linebacking has to get at least 100% better than it was this year. They need to get a middle linebacker who can actually play middle linebacker without the luxury of a huge DT or two in front of him to keep every blocker on the planet off him. And unless Rocky Boy uses the off-season to figure out what the hell he's supposed to be doing in that defense, they need to find an outside linebacker too because neither Holdman nor Rocky Boy were productive last year. And before anyone talks about Rocky's "potential" let me remind everyone that "potential" means he hasn't done jack-sh*t yet.


3. They must acquire a safety who can cover pass recievers in the middle of the field because they do not have anyone on the roster at the moment who can do this reliably for an entire game. Without that change, the Skins will continue to lead the league in "big plays given up" - and that's a formula for a losing season not a division championship.


4. The current roster has one - as in ONE - defensive lineman who is above average at his position. Unless they change that, they will have the ball run down their throats by the good running teams and they will give up huge gobs of passing yards to the good passing teams. They'll contain the teams who have bad offenses to begin with - - but once again that's not the formula for a division championship.


The draft will not resolve all those problems and if history is any judge neither will the Redskins whirlwind free agency signings during the first week of March. The best thing to hope for is that the coaching staff works a lot harder on the draft this year and acquires several players who actually play and contribute next year on more than the punt coverage team for the entire season. And the second best thing to hope for is sound health for Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and EVERYONE on the OL for 16 games next year. The roster needs help and getting back-ups for those guys will not happen if the team focuses on its other imminent needs.
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Old 01-28-2007, 04:37 PM   #26
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Re: NFC East Champ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
#56fanatic:

I hope I fit your description as someone who can look at the team situation objectively. If you went to Las Vegas right now and got the sportsbooks there to post a line on the Redskins winning the NFC East, the Skins would not be even-money. They'd be a long-shot.

The Skins have limitations but they are not insurmountable. The problem here is that far too many fans buy into the "simple/quick fix is all we need" mentality that infests the front office. The fix is not simple and the team needs more than one of them. And here's a news flash: There isn't a "Football Fairy Godmother" who will magically appear and wave a wand and turn a pumpkin into an All-Pro. It'd be nice if there were, but ...

Here are four areas where the Redskins MUST improve next year to get out of the NFC basement. If they significantly improve all four, they might actually win the NFC East. The probability that they will do so is far less than 50/50.


1. The wide receivers have to do a whole lot better. Moss' season was disappointing to be polite and significantly below the worst that could have been expected from him to be more honest. Lloyd is a loser and a locker-room problem waiting to happen. Patten was AWOL for the second year in a row. Randle-El is a third down receiver and a good return man. Frankly, I think their second best receiver this year was James Thrash when you consider his blocking for the running game.


2. The linebacking has to get at least 100% better than it was this year. They need to get a middle linebacker who can actually play middle linebacker without the luxury of a huge DT or two in front of him to keep every blocker on the planet off him. And unless Rocky Boy uses the off-season to figure out what the hell he's supposed to be doing in that defense, they need to find an outside linebacker too because neither Holdman nor Rocky Boy were productive last year. And before anyone talks about Rocky's "potential" let me remind everyone that "potential" means he hasn't done jack-sh*t yet.


3. They must acquire a safety who can cover pass recievers in the middle of the field because they do not have anyone on the roster at the moment who can do this reliably for an entire game. Without that change, the Skins will continue to lead the league in "big plays given up" - and that's a formula for a losing season not a division championship.


4. The current roster has one - as in ONE - defensive lineman who is above average at his position. Unless they change that, they will have the ball run down their throats by the good running teams and they will give up huge gobs of passing yards to the good passing teams. They'll contain the teams who have bad offenses to begin with - - but once again that's not the formula for a division championship.


The draft will not resolve all those problems and if history is any judge neither will the Redskins whirlwind free agency signings during the first week of March. The best thing to hope for is that the coaching staff works a lot harder on the draft this year and acquires several players who actually play and contribute next year on more than the punt coverage team for the entire season. And the second best thing to hope for is sound health for Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and EVERYONE on the OL for 16 games next year. The roster needs help and getting back-ups for those guys will not happen if the team focuses on its other imminent needs.
I think its safe to say that we don't need to fix ALL those things to have a legit shot at the playoffs. You pretty much named all the unfixed problems with this team. I think we can attack a few of those problems this season, and become a contender.

This team is one year removed from being among the top 4 teams in the conference. Obviously the talent to get back to that point is still on the roster. The offense in 2007 and probably even kicking game will be the best we've had them since Gibbs took over. The key, of course, is the defensive unit. Where do we have to be to be a playoff team? Probably middle of the pack defensively. Our run D was already middle of the pack, we just had the 32nd ranked pass D. As any GM will vouch for, run defense is far more sustainable than pass defense. So yes, we can fix the issues with the pass D in one offseason.

This team isn't going to be a superbowl contender, but it should at least be in the playoff hunt.
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:30 PM   #27
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Re: NFC East Champ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
#56fanatic:

I hope I fit your description as someone who can look at the team situation objectively. If you went to Las Vegas right now and got the sportsbooks there to post a line on the Redskins winning the NFC East, the Skins would not be even-money. They'd be a long-shot.

The Skins have limitations but they are not insurmountable. The problem here is that far too many fans buy into the "simple/quick fix is all we need" mentality that infests the front office. The fix is not simple and the team needs more than one of them. And here's a news flash: There isn't a "Football Fairy Godmother" who will magically appear and wave a wand and turn a pumpkin into an All-Pro. It'd be nice if there were, but ...

Here are four areas where the Redskins MUST improve next year to get out of the NFC basement. If they significantly improve all four, they might actually win the NFC East. The probability that they will do so is far less than 50/50.


1. The wide receivers have to do a whole lot better. Moss' season was disappointing to be polite and significantly below the worst that could have been expected from him to be more honest. Lloyd is a loser and a locker-room problem waiting to happen. Patten was AWOL for the second year in a row. Randle-El is a third down receiver and a good return man. Frankly, I think their second best receiver this year was James Thrash when you consider his blocking for the running game.


2. The linebacking has to get at least 100% better than it was this year. They need to get a middle linebacker who can actually play middle linebacker without the luxury of a huge DT or two in front of him to keep every blocker on the planet off him. And unless Rocky Boy uses the off-season to figure out what the hell he's supposed to be doing in that defense, they need to find an outside linebacker too because neither Holdman nor Rocky Boy were productive last year. And before anyone talks about Rocky's "potential" let me remind everyone that "potential" means he hasn't done jack-sh*t yet.


3. They must acquire a safety who can cover pass recievers in the middle of the field because they do not have anyone on the roster at the moment who can do this reliably for an entire game. Without that change, the Skins will continue to lead the league in "big plays given up" - and that's a formula for a losing season not a division championship.


4. The current roster has one - as in ONE - defensive lineman who is above average at his position. Unless they change that, they will have the ball run down their throats by the good running teams and they will give up huge gobs of passing yards to the good passing teams. They'll contain the teams who have bad offenses to begin with - - but once again that's not the formula for a division championship.


The draft will not resolve all those problems and if history is any judge neither will the Redskins whirlwind free agency signings during the first week of March. The best thing to hope for is that the coaching staff works a lot harder on the draft this year and acquires several players who actually play and contribute next year on more than the punt coverage team for the entire season. And the second best thing to hope for is sound health for Shawn Springs, Marcus Washington and EVERYONE on the OL for 16 games next year. The roster needs help and getting back-ups for those guys will not happen if the team focuses on its other imminent needs.

I for one have always been against the quick fix mentality of our franchise. I would prefer solid drafts, with the addition of maybe 1 to two players at the most that will put us over the top. You look at past winners, that is exactly what they have done. Patriots did it with corey dillon the first super bowl. Eagles with TO. Saints add Drew Breese.

I believe we have the talent on the offensive side of the ball. I have a hard time giving up on lloyd. I know he stunk, but how much of that was brunell unwillingness to throw deep, which is pretty much the routes he ran all year. The few times they did throw to him, on Randel El threw to him, he drew PI penalties. I believe with Campbell working this offseason, and the preseason as the #1, we will be a lot better in that area. Plus with Portis and Betts, teams will have to pay more attention to that area, leaving open the possibility of Lloyd, Randel El, Cooley working 1 on 1 with safeties or #2 corners.

Defensively, I agree with the MLB. I have never been a fan of Marshall. Rocky may be a player, who knows. but he has to be given a fair shot. Dline could be solid, Golsten, Montgomery, Carter, Griffen are good players. We may need another DE, but Daniels is a run stopping end, which is what I like about him. Face it, no one on that D played worth a damn, so the whole unit looked bad. Arch has to be given a shot to play. GW wanted him, then they need to spend the time with him, get him to understand what he is doing, so he reacts naturally and doesn't have to think so much on the field. Springs moving to safety, not so sure. I think he will be injured more than he is. Safeties have to hit, have to blitz up the middle and I just dont know at his age if he can take the beating.

Corner wise, that is where I would go get someone. Clemmons from the Bills. that is the only signing I would agree with. Corners are such a crap shoot in the draft. I would trade the #6 for a later first, 2nd, and maybe 5th through 7th, what ever we could get. There are quality players out there to be had.
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Old 01-28-2007, 06:34 PM   #28
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Re: NFC East Champ?

#56Fanatic, I broke your post down into paragraphs. It just makes it a lot easier to read. You had some good points, and I'd hate for people to just gloss over it because of the format.
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:21 PM   #29
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Re: NFC East Champ?

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Consider the state of coaching in the East. Dallas-no coach (maybe JJ). NYG-coach they don't like, and in turmoil. The division is up for grabs again this year. It might actually be a better oppurtunity for the Skins than 2006. They should be able to get stoked up about it, and get this ship righted. We'll see

Your thoughts?
Eagles have McNabb coming back as well as Kearse. They are the favorites.
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:35 PM   #30
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Re: NFC East Champ?

kearse is a non factor. guaranteed to be hurt at some point of the season
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