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Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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Old 04-07-2007, 05:45 AM   #31
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

I really think this is not just a pick on the D line this year but a high one in next years draft as well. So if I am right who is the best DE or DT to take in this draft and if we need to get the other next year so be it! Of the DE and DT is the best fit for us?
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:48 AM   #32
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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I don't see what's so wrong with recognizing what he did down the stretch, he really did play well.
And the reason I think that you have to recognize that is becasue he was playing in a different position for the 49ers. I took him a while to readjust, learn the system, and get comfortable. I think that Carter is the player we saw down the stretch, not early on.

Also, why does everyone complain that he is bad against the run? I think he is pretty good against the run considering he is primarily a pass rusher. Better LB play is what is needed behind him to fix the run on that side. (Remember how much better things got when Lavar replaced Holdman?)
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:59 AM   #33
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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Doesn't this seem like it could be a problem to you? I'm not sure I'd cite the Colts defense as the standard for excellence in the NFL.
i was more talking about their ends. they still get their sacks. i think their problem is more in the middle. i think D.T. is the answer, but i see branch as the second coming of big daddy, and that didnt work once before
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Old 04-07-2007, 02:41 PM   #34
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

I would like to see Gaines Adams here, thats if we cant make a move for Calvin Johnson. Im not a fan of Jamaal Anderson at all, I would rather us pick Amobi Okoye or Laron Landry before we pick Anderson. I think we could be looking at some serious trade offers though because it looks like Quinn and Peterson will both fall to us, but we cant move back to far and screw ourselves out of an elite player. I think we would be fine with a Dline of:

Carter
Golston
Griffin
Adams
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:27 PM   #35
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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i was more talking about their ends. they still get their sacks. i think their problem is more in the middle. i think D.T. is the answer, but i see branch as the second coming of big daddy, and that didnt work once before
I suppose two great pass rushers would make our pass rush a little better, but I can't imagine our defense getting better overall.

If we drafted Gaines Adams, I'd put him behind Carter on the DC and make him earn his way onto the field. I wouldn't play both on the same line though. At least not in Adams' rookie year.
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:35 PM   #36
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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I would like to see Gaines Adams here, thats if we cant make a move for Calvin Johnson. Im not a fan of Jamaal Anderson at all, I would rather us pick Amobi Okoye or Laron Landry before we pick Anderson. I think we could be looking at some serious trade offers though because it looks like Quinn and Peterson will both fall to us, but we cant move back to far and screw ourselves out of an elite player. I think we would be fine with a Dline of:

Carter
Golston
Griffin
Adams
Fine until Brandon Jacobs puts up 250 on us. I have an idea, why dont we put Springs at DT? He's quick.

I think Adams would be a good pick, but we can't force him into a role his skills aren't adept for. Two speed rushers are pretty easy to nullify in this league if the QB is smart enough to step up. Adams has to replace Carter if he wants to play.

Adams' isn't a better end than Carriker, IMO. I would take Carriker even with adams available.

I still don't understand why so many people are latched on to Calvin Johnson's nuts. Sure, he very well could turn out to be the next Larry Fitzgerald, but with Moss on the roster already, why is that so exciting?

If you wanted a receiver that bad, why not suggest that we trade the 6th to Arizona for Fitzgerald and their 2nd? I know it's a bad deal, but at least its a better deal than trading up to get Johnson, not to mention that Fitzgerald DOESN'T have bust potential anymore (unlike CJ).
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:16 PM   #37
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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Fine until Brandon Jacobs puts up 250 on us. I have an idea, why dont we put Springs at DT? He's quick.

I think Adams would be a good pick, but we can't force him into a role his skills aren't adept for. Two speed rushers are pretty easy to nullify in this league if the QB is smart enough to step up. Adams has to replace Carter if he wants to play.

Adams' isn't a better end than Carriker, IMO. I would take Carriker even with adams available.

I still don't understand why so many people are latched on to Calvin Johnson's nuts. Sure, he very well could turn out to be the next Larry Fitzgerald, but with Moss on the roster already, why is that so exciting?

If you wanted a receiver that bad, why not suggest that we trade the 6th to Arizona for Fitzgerald and their 2nd? I know it's a bad deal, but at least its a better deal than trading up to get Johnson, not to mention that Fitzgerald DOESN'T have bust potential anymore (unlike CJ).

Oh yes, I can really see Brandon Jacobs putting up 250 against us. Seriously, lets go ahead and draft a DT who cant rush the passer, then we can stop the run, yet we still give up huge pass plays all game because our DB have to cover for 10-15 seconds, its the same situation as last year. Take the bears for example, two really good DT, they stopped the run in the superbowl, but they couldnt get to Peyton Manning and he torched them. Larry Fitzgerald is a possesion reciever, Calvin Johnson is not, hes tall and very fast, runs great routes and can go up after the ball, hes the complete package as far as recievers are concerned, thats why everyone is on his nuts, as you so wonderfully put it.
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Old 04-07-2007, 07:19 PM   #38
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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I suppose two great pass rushers would make our pass rush a little better, but I can't imagine our defense getting better overall.

If we drafted Gaines Adams, I'd put him behind Carter on the DC and make him earn his way onto the field. I wouldn't play both on the same line though. At least not in Adams' rookie year.
So what do you say we do then, we have to use the 6th pick on someone, and Geez why are you on Carrickers nuts so much?
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Old 04-07-2007, 08:04 PM   #39
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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Oh yes, I can really see Brandon Jacobs putting up 250 against us. Seriously, lets go ahead and draft a DT who cant rush the passer, then we can stop the run, yet we still give up huge pass plays all game because our DB have to cover for 10-15 seconds, its the same situation as last year. Take the bears for example, two really good DT, they stopped the run in the superbowl, but they couldnt get to Peyton Manning and he torched them. Larry Fitzgerald is a possesion reciever, Calvin Johnson is not, hes tall and very fast, runs great routes and can go up after the ball, hes the complete package as far as recievers are concerned, thats why everyone is on his nuts, as you so wonderfully put it.
Why don't we draft a player without a painfully glaring weakness, like Amobi Okoye?

The Chicago Bears have better defensive ends than a Carter/Adams combination for sure. Ogunleye and Brown can both rush the passes and defend the run, and Mark Anderson is the prototype for situational pass rusher.

Secondly, the Bears' best DT Tommie Harris, maybe the best DT in the NFL, did not play in the super bowl. The commentators only said this a half billion times.

Thirdly, Peyton Manning torches everyone. We've been over this.

Fourth and finally, you are only talking about one game here.

Defend your position that Larry Fitzgerald is a possession receiver, please.

Also, according to you, the only things that matter for a receiver are that he's tall, fast, runs great routes, and can go up after the ball. So lets pass on Calvin Johnson and get Koren Robinson--A.K.A. the complete package--on the phone.

All wonderful reasons to immortalize a player prior to draft day.
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Old 04-07-2007, 08:09 PM   #40
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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So what do you say we do then, we have to use the 6th pick on someone, and Geez why are you on Carrickers nuts so much?
Draft Amobi Okoye with the sixth pick.

I haven't suggested that Carriker is a can't miss prospect nor that we should trade up for him, as people (you among them) have suggested we do for Calvin Johnson. As far as I'm concerned, being "on [player's] nuts" refers to suggesting to make great sacrifces to acquire such a player. This draft doesn't have a player who is deserving, at least for the Redskins.

Both Okoye and Carriker compliment what we have on the DL already. That's why they are the best possible picks for this team. Adams works, but not only doesn't complement Carter, just creates a sitation where one stays (Adams) and one goes (Carter).
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Old 04-07-2007, 08:47 PM   #41
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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Why don't we draft a player without a painfully glaring weakness, like Amobi Okoye?

The Chicago Bears have better defensive ends than a Carter/Adams combination for sure. Ogunleye and Brown can both rush the passes and defend the run, and Mark Anderson is the prototype for situational pass rusher.

Secondly, the Bears' best DT Tommie Harris, maybe the best DT in the NFL, did not play in the super bowl. The commentators only said this a half billion times.

Thirdly, Peyton Manning torches everyone. We've been over this.

Fourth and finally, you are only talking about one game here.

Defend your position that Larry Fitzgerald is a possession receiver, please.

Also, according to you, the only things that matter for a receiver are that he's tall, fast, runs great routes, and can go up after the ball. So lets pass on Calvin Johnson and get Koren Robinson--A.K.A. the complete package--on the phone.

All wonderful reasons to immortalize a player prior to draft day.

As far as Koren Robinson is concerned, hes actually a pretty good player when he can stay on the field, he just has to many off the field problems, his talent has never been his problem. I have no problem with Okoye, I actually like him as a prospect, I just like Gaines Adams more, would i be upset if we pick Okoye, absolutely not. And im not trying to be a prick, I just would like to know your criteria for a guy being a good reciever if those dont fit the bill. I was using the bears as an example because O-gun and Alex Brown are both small speed rushers, actually i believe both are smaller than Andre Carter and Gaines Adams, which ever way we go in the draft, we will never be able to fix this defense with one draft, its going to take time.
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Old 04-07-2007, 09:03 PM   #42
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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As far as Koren Robinson is concerned, hes actually a pretty good player when he can stay on the field, he just has to many off the field problems, his talent has never been his problem. I have no problem with Okoye, I actually like him as a prospect, I just like Gaines Adams more, would i be upset if we pick Okoye, absolutely not. And im not trying to be a prick, I just would like to know your criteria for a guy being a good reciever if those dont fit the bill. I was using the bears as an example because O-gun and Alex Brown are both small speed rushers, actually i believe both are smaller than Andre Carter and Gaines Adams, which ever way we go in the draft, we will never be able to fix this defense with one draft, its going to take time.
I don't worry too much about a receiver prospect physically. The best prospects are intelligent, and well experienced at the NCAA level. I think route running would be one of my top criterias, but outside of that, I want the guy who can turn the short catch into the long play. That skill takes a player who understands defenses like the back of his hand, knows where his man is going to be almost instinctively, and makes his move accordingly.

Is this something that CJ is good at? Possibly. Can we expect him to be as good at it as Santana Moss? That's a tall order. Consequently, I think he would be hard pressed for CJ to be better than Moss anytime between now and 2010.

The main point of contention is whether or not CJ brings something to the table that we haven't seen before. Obviously he doesn't. Tall receviers run 4.3 all the time, its an impressive feat, but not a deal breaker. If we fix the DL now, I'd be more open to considering a receiver with a high pick next year when inevitably there will be someone who will be dubbed the greatest receiver since Rice.

Beware of the hype. It surrounds the players who leave college early. Remember, these players passed up a final chance to better their game prior to their inception into the NFL. Essentially speaking, they are 3/4ish the player they would have been at the NFL level had they stayed another year. That doesn't invalidate talent, but when it comes to underclassmen receivers, such as Johnson, you can almost be certain that the hype will far exceed their potential. Johnson doesn't have any red flags to make me think he will bust out, but then again, neither did David Terell or Koren Robinson.
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Old 04-07-2007, 09:16 PM   #43
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

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I don't worry too much about a receiver prospect physically. The best prospects are intelligent, and well experienced at the NCAA level. I think route running would be one of my top criterias, but outside of that, I want the guy who can turn the short catch into the long play. That skill takes a player who understands defenses like the back of his hand, knows where his man is going to be almost instinctively, and makes his move accordingly.

Is this something that CJ is good at? Possibly. Can we expect him to be as good at it as Santana Moss? That's a tall order. Consequently, I think he would be hard pressed for CJ to be better than Moss anytime between now and 2010.

The main point of contention is whether or not CJ brings something to the table that we haven't seen before. Obviously he doesn't. Tall receviers run 4.3 all the time, its an impressive feat, but not a deal breaker. If we fix the DL now, I'd be more open to considering a receiver with a high pick next year when inevitably there will be someone who will be dubbed the greatest receiver since Rice.

Beware of the hype. It surrounds the players who leave college early. Remember, these players passed up a final chance to better their game prior to their inception into the NFL. Essentially speaking, they are 3/4ish the player they would have been at the NFL level had they stayed another year. That doesn't invalidate talent, but when it comes to underclassmen receivers, such as Johnson, you can almost be certain that the hype will far exceed their potential. Johnson doesn't have any red flags to make me think he will bust out, but then again, neither did David Terell or Koren Robinson.

I think what sold me on CJ was his after the catch runs against Virginia Tech, the hokies who happen to be my favorite college team had the top ranked defense in the nation and he absolutely torched them, I dont let his forty time or his measurables fool me in any way, I like ACC football and got to see him play alot and he dominated with a horrible QB (Reggie Ball), thats the main reason i like him, but like i said I would not be bothered at all if we took Okoye, I wouldnt mind us taking Laron Landry either, although i would like to see what Reed Doughtys got.
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Old 04-07-2007, 09:18 PM   #44
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Re: Defensive End - How Big is Our Need?

Generally, their comes a point in a guy's college career where no more experience could make him better at that level. NFL scouts generally call these prospects "NFL ready". But just because they have reached the pinnical of the college game does NOT mean they are as ready for the NFL as they are ever be.

Every players' game would benefit from extra time in DI college football, even if the results aren't apparent on the field. Calvin Johnson would be a much more impressive prospect to me had he stayed in school one more year. Had he, he very well might have lived up to the hype.

With the hype at the level it is now, I don't think he has a chance in hell to live up to it.
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Old 04-07-2007, 09:22 PM   #45
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I think what sold me on CJ was his after the catch runs against Virginia Tech, the hokies who happen to be my favorite college team had the top ranked defense in the nation and he absolutely torched them, I dont let his forty time or his measurables fool me in any way, I like ACC football and got to see him play alot and he dominated with a horrible QB (Reggie Ball), thats the main reason i like him, but like i said I would not be bothered at all if we took Okoye, I wouldnt mind us taking Laron Landry either, although i would like to see what Reed Doughtys got.
I think Johnson did reach the pinnical of the college game, a game where physical skills often overshadow mental acuity. But he's still going pro with a lot to learn. He can't ever make up this lost EXP in the NFL, he's going to be on the same learning curve as his entire class now.

I think the only first round WR who will live up to the hype surrounding him will be Dwayne Bowe of LSU.

It wouldn't shock me if Bowe had a better career than Johnson, despite the sizable gap in talent.
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