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Have we discussed???

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Old 04-16-2007, 12:56 PM   #1
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Have we discussed???

Last year, we lost too many games, and this is something we all know. Since I've joined this site (not that long ago) I have learned and heard just about every reason we didn't pull out more wins last year. One thing I haven't seen discussed is how we couldn't hold on to a lead in the second half, or score/hold the oppenents on key drives. Our discussions have been about free agents, trades, and the draft. I'm pretty concerned about this and I wish I had the figures to back up my thread, but I'm not any good at getting stats together.

Do you think we have addressed these problems? I don't think this is something we can fix just through the draft and free angency alone.
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Old 04-16-2007, 01:14 PM   #2
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Re: Have we discussed???

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Originally Posted by hagams View Post
Last year, we lost too many games, and this is something we all know. Since I've joined this site (not that long ago) I have learned and heard just about every reason we didn't pull out more wins last year. One thing I haven't seen discussed is how we couldn't hold on to a lead in the second half, or score/hold the oppenents on key drives. Our discussions have been about free agents, trades, and the draft. I'm pretty concerned about this and I wish I had the figures to back up my thread, but I'm not any good at getting stats together.

Do you think we have addressed these problems? I don't think this is something we can fix just through the draft and free angency alone.
Well, Hagams, I see where you are coming from, but try looking at it from this angle:

Each football game that's ever been played is unique in and of itself. One of the great things about the sport is that a lot of crazy, fun stuff can happen, and for no good reason. A lot of what goes on in football games is just random functions of dumb luck, and the unlucky team just has to overcome. Such is the world of football, and all sports even.

Were their occurences where we gave up a lead last year? Certainly. Did we usually fail to score when we needed it and also fail to hold our oppenents when we needed it? Of course. Does this mean we have an inherent team issue with either of these things? Not at all.

A football season is only 16 games long, so its tough to say the luck will even out. We certainly overcame Dallas and Jacksonville in dramatic fashion, and got some timely luck against Carolina and New Orleans. So it wasn't all bad. Just give it 16 more games. I promise the chances of 2006 repeating itself for us are astronomical.

Just because something happened once or twice does not give us reason to expect it will ever happen again.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:06 PM   #3
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Re: Have we discussed???

Yeah I think we could say that we had trouble holding a lead at times, but there were also plenty of other games where we had trouble coming from behind. The 21-19 loss to Philly sticks out in my mind. With about 6 minutes left and down 21-16, we have 3rd & goal on the Eagles' 8 yard line. Jason Campbell takes a sack and a loss of 8 yards, we settle for a field goal, and lose as the Eagles never gave the ball back to us.

That game embodies a lot of what went wrong for us last year. You could say we weren't very efficient with red zone offense, as Campbell failed to get us a TD on that possession against Philly. But our Red Zone problems existed in the first 3 quarters of the game just as much as in the 4th quarter. You could say we were horrible at stopping the run, which was embodied by the Eagles pounding us to run the last 5 minutes off the clock. But we all know we couldn't stop the run at any point in the game (Tiki, anyone?).

Remember when Archuleta got torched by Witten at the end of the Dallas game, which by all rights the Cowboys should have won? That doesn't mean we have problems with our coverage in the clutch. We just had problems with our coverage, period. You certainly remember that.

We didn't have a problem with sucking in the 4th quarter. We had a problem with sucking, period. GW needs some schematic adjustments, we need some healthier players, we need better completion % from Campbell, we need to run more effectively in the red zone, we need to be stronger up front against the run. We have a lot of deficiencies, but it has nothing to do with what quarter it is.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:14 PM   #4
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Re: Have we discussed???

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We didn't have a problem with sucking in the 4th quarter. We had a problem with sucking, period. GW needs some schematic adjustments, we need some healthier players, we need better completion % from Campbell, we need to run more effectively in the red zone, we need to be stronger up front against the run. We have a lot of deficiencies, but it has nothing to do with what quarter it is.
Well said as usual.

We also need better blocking in power on power running situations, we have a tendency to lose those.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:19 PM   #5
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Re: Have we discussed???

I have always felt that one of Gibbs biggest problems on his return is being too passive when it comes down to it. He feels like two scores is enough to start running the ball three times and punting. In this league even two touchdowns in the 3rd quarter isn't near impossible to come back on. We seem to always try to make our defense hold the other team rather than scoring and making it that much more difficult.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:21 PM   #6
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Re: Have we discussed???

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Originally Posted by hagams View Post
Last year, we lost too many games, and this is something we all know. Since I've joined this site (not that long ago) I have learned and heard just about every reason we didn't pull out more wins last year. One thing I haven't seen discussed is how we couldn't hold on to a lead in the second half, or score/hold the oppenents on key drives. Our discussions have been about free agents, trades, and the draft. I'm pretty concerned about this and I wish I had the figures to back up my thread, but I'm not any good at getting stats together.

Do you think we have addressed these problems? I don't think this is something we can fix just through the draft and free angency alone.
I think that what you are saying is true, and what the cause was a lack of depth defensively and a lack experience offensively. Primarily, we struggled when our defense field units without Springs, Griffith, Salavea, or Washington. Most of the time, at least 2 of the 4 were out or playing hurt. Combine that with the bad luck of having every turnover bounce right to the other team and you have a recipe for disaster. Without the injuries and turnovers I can easily see us winning the Minnesota, Tennessee, Atlanta, and 2nd Giants game. Except for the Giants game, the others were all lost in the second half.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:22 PM   #7
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Re: Have we discussed???

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I have always felt that one of Gibbs biggest problems on his return is being too passive when it comes down to it. He feels like two scores is enough to start running the ball three times and punting. In this league even two touchdowns in the 3rd quarter isn't near impossible to come back on. We seem to always try to make our defense hold the other team rather than scoring and making it that much more difficult.
Maybe the coaching is fine. Maybe the defense just sucks and gives up big leads with ease?

Is Gibbs also telling his RB's to not get the first downs with the lead? Is he also telling his QB to not complete passes so that they can stop the clock and be forced to punt?
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:23 PM   #8
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Re: Have we discussed???

We had too many quick 4th down situation last year, especially with mark brunell.
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Old 04-16-2007, 02:25 PM   #9
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Re: Have we discussed???

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We had too many quick 4th down situation last year, especially with mark brunell.
We had a lot more three and outs with Campbell. Like, near double.
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Old 04-16-2007, 04:30 PM   #10
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Re: Have we discussed???

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Maybe the coaching is fine. Maybe the defense just sucks and gives up big leads with ease?

Is Gibbs also telling his RB's to not get the first downs with the lead? Is he also telling his QB to not complete passes so that they can stop the clock and be forced to punt?
I think the thought is that Gibbs in many ways seems more conservative in his philosophy.

There were times when we were either clinging to a slim lead or trailing just before halftime and Gibbs would call draw plays with more than a minute left and a couple of time-outs left. Or going for field goals when he should have gone for it on fourth down.

Certainly Gibbs doesn't call for incomplete passes or running plays that fail to reach the down-marker. No one's implying that. But there is a clear difference in his overall game time decision-making that is not now what it used to be.
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Old 04-16-2007, 04:58 PM   #11
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Re: Have we discussed???

What I'm saying is this, Gtripp: Joe Gibbs is ultra conservative, and that doesn't fly anymore. Greg Williams has consistently proven himself as quite a great defensive coordinator. I will take his recent track record over anyone elses. I see this year as the exception, not the rule. Especially seeing as how he couldn't do what he likes to do thanks to early injuries to our secondary.

Winning games shouldn't be put squarely on our defenses shoulders every week. Sometimes we need to grow some balls, man up, and try to put more points up. Have you not seen in the 4th quarter up by a touchdown the skins touch the ball 2-3 times on offense and easily go 3 and out each time. I mark this up to overall coaching and game management. Sometimes you have to rely on your defense, but sometimes you need to put points up. In '05 I saw our defense ripped on this board for being forced, every week, to try to save the game for the Redskins.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:53 PM   #12
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Re: Have we discussed???

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I have always felt that one of Gibbs biggest problems on his return is being too passive when it comes down to it. He feels like two scores is enough to start running the ball three times and punting. In this league even two touchdowns in the 3rd quarter isn't near impossible to come back on. We seem to always try to make our defense hold the other team rather than scoring and making it that much more difficult.
I seem to remember this past season, Saunders got away from the run when we should have stuck with it, and it seemed as if our offense didn't establish an identity. In turn, that hurt our offense more than being "ultra conservative." When this team did start to turn to the run more, our offense started to improve. Scoring points can have as much to do with the defense not holding the other team as it can the offense scoring those points.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:10 PM   #13
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Re: Have we discussed???

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What I'm saying is this, Gtripp: Joe Gibbs is ultra conservative, and that doesn't fly anymore.
That logically is incorrect. Gibbs' offense was ran in his second year back (in 11 years I might add) when the Redskins went to the playoffs and advanced. Heck, the Redskins fired off 5 or 6 wins in a row because they went to the run game more. Looking back at it this year...you have Al Saunders calling his offense, and G. Williams' defense collapsing. That has nothing to do with Joe Gibbs' offensive philosophy. By looking at the facts, it isn't Joe Gibbs being ultra conservative, it is the whole picture with a new guy calling plays and the defense letting us down.


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Greg Williams has consistently proven himself as quite a great defensive coordinator. I will take his recent track record over anyone elses. I see this year as the exception, not the rule. Especially seeing as how he couldn't do what he likes to do thanks to early injuries to our secondary.
The same could be said for Joe Gibbs. He has consistently proven himself as a Head Coach, something Gregg Williams has yet to do. If we use this past year as an exception, then why not apply the same for Joe Gibbs and this run? Gibbs had injuries as well on the offensive side of the ball? Heck, Joe Gibbs has already proven himself able to lead a consistently bad team to the playoffs in this day and age.
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Old 04-16-2007, 06:51 PM   #14
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Re: Have we discussed???

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That logically is incorrect. Gibbs' offense was ran in his second year back (in 11 years I might add) when the Redskins went to the playoffs and advanced. Heck, the Redskins fired off 5 or 6 wins in a row because they went to the run game more. Looking back at it this year...you have Al Saunders calling his offense, and G. Williams' defense collapsing. That has nothing to do with Joe Gibbs' offensive philosophy. By looking at the facts, it isn't Joe Gibbs being ultra conservative, it is the whole picture with a new guy calling plays and the defense letting us down.
Where did I say don't run? I think our line and team is built to pound the rock, and I love a solid running game. I don't think running up the middle three times is a good strategy, but we need to run. And right, it has nothing to do with his offensive philosophy, notice I said game management. Gibbs is the one telling these guys roughly how he wants the game to go. If you want to look back since GIbbs has been back it's been the same thing as last year.

I'm not blaming Saunders or Gibbs for the offense last year. It takes time to get a new philosophy in and implemented, especially with the type of turn over we have over the typical year. The defense this year was subpar, but since GWilliams has been here he's done nothing but put an amazing product on the field, even before he came here his defenses have often been top 10.

Quote:
The same could be said for Joe Gibbs. He has consistently proven himself as a Head Coach, something Gregg Williams has yet to do. If we use this past year as an exception, then why not apply the same for Joe Gibbs and this run? Gibbs had injuries as well on the offensive side of the ball? Heck, Joe Gibbs has already proven himself able to lead a consistently bad team to the playoffs in this day and age.
As you said yourself, Gibbs was gone for 11 years. And Joe Gibbs HAD a pass for two years before I really started being critical. Yes, we all know what he did in the 80s, that's great, you know my feeling on that. As far as consistently proven himself? I haven't seen anything of that sort in his latest stint. You're still living in the glory days, look at Gibbs 2.0 for face value, he's not in the top half of NFL coaches right now. Are you saying that the offensive injuries were even close to the defensive ones? I can't see that at all! Greg Williams has one bad year in how many years in the league? Gibbs could win in the 80's, it's still yet to be seen in the 2000's.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:16 PM   #15
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Re: Have we discussed???

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Originally Posted by hagams View Post
Last year, we lost too many games, and this is something we all know. Since I've joined this site (not that long ago) I have learned and heard just about every reason we didn't pull out more wins last year. One thing I haven't seen discussed is how we couldn't hold on to a lead in the second half, or score/hold the oppenents on key drives. Our discussions have been about free agents, trades, and the draft. I'm pretty concerned about this and I wish I had the figures to back up my thread, but I'm not any good at getting stats together.

Do you think we have addressed these problems? I don't think this is something we can fix just through the draft and free angency alone.

the real reason that we didnt win more games is because we didnt score more points than the opposition did in 11 out of 16 games
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