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Old 04-30-2007, 10:53 AM   #46
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Re: Wynn restructures

That could be said about any position on either side of the ball.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:55 AM   #47
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Re: Wynn restructures

I'd also like to say that I applaud the front office for their foresight at our linebacking situation. Who knows how Washington or McIntosh heal, so they actually got some "steals" in the later rounds.
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:55 AM   #48
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Re: Wynn restructures

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Just curious what you've been basing that on. Is it purely stats?

So what would give you the impression that he's been "solid" ??

You already said that his playing time was reduced due to the presence of Golston and Montgomery. So if that's the case, why are we keeping an 11-year veteran when 5th and 6th round picks offer more than he's able to give us?

Oh, I forgot -- he's a great "locker room leader."
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:56 AM   #49
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Re: Wynn restructures

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Because if you want to go that route, Marcus Stroud had only 19 tackles last year. John Henderson had 38 (only a few more than Wynn in what you call his "has-been" years).
In Beem's defense a DE should get more tackles than a DT.

In your defense, while Wynn had "only" 24 tackles in 2005, Dwight Freeney had 29.

In my defense, Justin Smith had 45 tackles in 2005 (50 in 2006)

Holla at ya boy Dmek!
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:59 AM   #50
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Re: Wynn restructures

For the record, Landry is probably the right pick.

Though I still wonder if Okoye will provide the type of help we could have used.

Marcus Stroud and John Henderson? They're starters. And I understand that sometimes, a player's contibution is his ability to tie up blockers while letting other guys make the tackle.

But I'd venture to guess that their playing time far exceeds anything Renaldo Wynn had -- so your comparison doesn't quite work does it?
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Old 04-30-2007, 10:59 AM   #51
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Re: Wynn restructures

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So what would give you the impression that he's been "solid" ??

You already said that his playing time was reduced due to the presence of Golston and Montgomery. So if that's the case, why are we keeping an 11-year veteran when 5th and 6th round picks offer more than he's able to give us?

Oh, I forgot -- he's a great "locker room leader."
The reason I get that impression is because I watched all those games in 2004, 2005 and 2006 much like I'm sure you did. I don't EVER recall Wynn being a scapegoat (as many players were) in those years. We never were like, "Man oh man, Wynn really screwed the pooch that game. We should cut him!" While he hasn't been an all-star by any means, there should not be any outcry with keeping someone as solid on the team for what is essentially vet minimum.

While I do agree we need more depth along the defensive line, I think the argument that you're presenting that we should cut Wynn nor show him any votes of confidence is a bit unfounded.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:00 AM   #52
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Re: Wynn restructures

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For the record, Landry is probably the right pick.

Though I still wonder if Okoye will provide the type of help we could have used.

Marcus Stroud and John Henderson? They're starters. And I understand that sometimes, a player's contibution is his ability to tie up blockers while letting other guys make the tackle.

But I'd venture to guess that their playing time far exceeds anything Renaldo Wynn had -- so your comparison doesn't quite work does it?
Actually it does. Stroud had only a couple more tackles than Wynn while starting and playing almost every down the ENTIRE YEAR? Most would think that supports what I'm trying to say.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:03 AM   #53
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Re: Wynn restructures

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Actually it does. Stroud had only a couple more tackles than Wynn while starting and playing almost every down the ENTIRE YEAR? Most would think that supports what I'm trying to say.

But again, you are forgetting that Stroud and Henderson are more likely tying up blockers.

TMC, let's not descend into the absurd -- are you really implying that Stroud and Henderson aren't any better than Renaldo Wynn?

It is my position that for whatever Wynn's cap space amounts to, we could have virtually any other player who might be able to contribute more, even in limited action.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:06 AM   #54
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Re: Wynn restructures

While I'm not comparing them to their abilities, your argument is founded solely on stats. I'm just saying that Pro Bowlers like Henderson and Stroud have similar stats. Wynn did the same thing they did, he tied up blockers.

And honestly, I would very much disagree that we could find someone to play as well or better for the money we're paying him. PRIOR to his pay cut, I would have agreed, but for now, I think he's a bargain.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:06 AM   #55
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Re: Wynn restructures

Seems that the simple point here is tackles don't mean squat when you are evaluating lineman.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:07 AM   #56
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Re: Wynn restructures

Right. I'm just going by what I've seen and what we've heard year-after-year from the coaches about his abilities.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:09 AM   #57
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Re: Wynn restructures

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I agree. As I said in another thread I think a lot of us got too focused on the defensive line and forgot that our secondary was pretty piss poor last year too. Landry will hopefully be what we thought AA was going to be. An in the box safety that will be stout against the run and will also be a serious blitz threat.
Exactly. I love that other people are starting to see the light too. You add Landry and noe we can send people from everywhere, both him and taylor can drop in coverage, blitz, and will hit the living Sh*t out of people.

Last year we only rushed three alot and dropped 8 back because we were so terrible in coverage. Now we can drop 4 or 5 and be just as effective if not more.

We have solid Depth all around the secondary and LB's. We even have solid depth at DT with Montgomery and Golston. We could use another DE for depth but i really think the defense will turn it around. Although our DL won't get the most sacks they will occupy blockers and watch for M. Washington to have about 8 sacks this year.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:11 AM   #58
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Re: Wynn restructures

No, my argument isn't based solely on stats. If he were the dominating force you describe him to be, Golston, Montgomery, and Daniels wouldn't have the playing time Wynn should be getting.

You think it would be impossible to find another player who could eclipse what Wynn could give us?
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:15 AM   #59
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Re: Wynn restructures

I don't think it would be impossible, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find one. I think that any team we could FIND one on, wouldn't be willing to part because of the deal they're getting themselves. Again, I'm only showing him this kind of allegiance because of the fact he is taking the very minimum a veteran can get.

If he had kept his current salary, I'm totally in agreement with you in the fact he needed to be cut.
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Old 04-30-2007, 11:22 AM   #60
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Re: Wynn restructures

The coaches want to keep Wynn. That should be enough. They see more film then you do and are on the field up close. Plus add all of the practice time they evaluate how each person performs in practice.
You can never judge defensive lineman on stats.
Last year Wyn lost his starting job, we brought in a pure pass rusher #99 and we got less sacks and our run defense went to hell. Are you blaming that on Wynn? Why aren't you blaming # 99 who is making more money than Wynn and in the first half of the season was pushed around like a little girl.
I would rather give up on the pass rush DE # 99 who got just a few sacks last year and than be one of the worst run defenses. #99 better improve his run stopping abilities or he will be cut. He is making too much money to be a pass rush only guy.
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