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In a Perfect World: A Look Back at the 'Skins Major Offseason Moves

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View Poll Results: Which would have been better, "my plan" or how things actually worked out?
Ramseyfan's plan (yes I know hindsight is 20/20) 3 9.68%
Dan Snyder/Joe Gibbs' plan (how the offseason actually played out) 28 90.32%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-23-2004, 12:22 AM   #31
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Ramseyfan I cast a vote for you because I liked the fact that you did more than the standard "the cap will kill us" "we need a GM" argument without offering any sort of solution. The fact that you took the time to provide alternatives merits a vote.

I think sometimes though you have to pounce an opportunity instead of waiting it to maybe come to you. We had the opportunity to get Brunell early and have him learning our offense and participating in our mini-camps from day one. Yeah we lost a third-round draft pick, but I think having security at QB early on is worth it. I don't want to be settling for Tim Couch (no offense Couch fans) in late June.

As for the draft, I would tend to make the same argument for getting Brunell. We could pile up on draft picks and risk what we've been going through with Sean Taylor, in terms of wondering will he be in camp on time. What we've done with our picks is use them as leverage for young proven players (i.e. Coles). We're getting young, proven players who are already signed and ready to go from day one.
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Old 07-23-2004, 12:22 AM   #32
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If there is anyone else out there who agrees with anything I say, please let me know because I feel like I am getting pounded harder than Tracy Lords in a frat house.

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Old 07-23-2004, 12:44 AM   #33
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its just hard to argue with gibbs at least ou've thought it through and can defend your choices, but I think the last couple years have been good. I think drafting is much more cap friendly, but until cap hell happens or the FAs turn into busts, its hard to argue against FAs like coles and portis.

I agree we should draft more and not overpay, but the redskins always look so good in august that its hard to say they've done anything wrong. Its much easier in a disappointing december.
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Old 07-23-2004, 12:54 AM   #34
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We'll, I'm glad you're back. Thinks are not the same without your carefully considered and balanced comments added with a mild dash of incandescent fury.

Don't work too hard.
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Old 07-23-2004, 12:54 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy
its just hard to argue with gibbs at least ou've thought it through and can defend your choices, but I think the last couple years have been good. I think drafting is much more cap friendly, but until cap hell happens or the FAs turn into busts, its hard to argue against FAs like coles and portis.

I agree we should draft more and not overpay, but the redskins always look so good in august that its hard to say they've done anything wrong. Its much easier in a disappointing december.
Well put. We disagree, but I agree with this post if that makes any sense.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
Easy Hogskin, relax, this is a friendly discussion.
Hmmmmmm. Not sure what I did said that was "unfriendly" LOL. I thought I was merely presenting an opposing point of view... Hope that's not unacceptable here. I will try again, and try to be very careful not to offend you.

You said that I believe in building a team through free agency (as opposed to you). That is not what I believe at all, and I don't think I ever said anything that indicated that. I believe in using both, as the Redskins are doing now. Everything in my post was in direct response to your initial theory, and was intended to demonstrate the flaws in it - nothing more. Actual statistics on the success rate of draftees makes a one-year draft-only rebuilding plan virtually impossible. That is the point I was attempting to make.

As far as their past history of free agents, I agree they have made many bad decisions. But draft decisions are even more difficult to get "right" than free agent signings. The difference this season is Gibbs (especially in free agent signings - his real area of expertise).

Again I will offer my challenge. Repost your original statement in this thread after week 10, and let's look at its validity then. In fact, repost my initial response also - if I am wrong, have at it and I will be here to take it on the chin and eat crow (both friendly and unfriendly).

P.S. Your Tracy Lords comment was the best I have seen anywhere on this board!!!! LMAO
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:05 AM   #37
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The way I see it is we have a good mixture of players on the team.Some young proven players,Good cap friendly draft picks,and vets who have seen it all.So I cant really say that I am at all disappointed in this offseason.I do agree that Williams isnt going to be able to hide our weak d-line.All we can hope is that he can be creative enough to keep teams off balance by changing the personel and schemes around.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:15 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogskin
Hmmmmmm. Not sure what I did said that was "unfriendly" LOL. I thought I was merely presenting an opposing point of view... Hope that's not unacceptable here. I will try again, and try to be very careful not to offend you.
Perhaps I misinterpreted the tone of your post, in which case no harm no foul. Of course opposing viewpoints are acceptable here; in fact they are encouraged. As many people here may know, I don't believe half of the things that I say, I just post viewpoints that I think are being neglected or "go against the grain." It would be boring if we all agreed on everything. Bouncing ideas off each others' heads improves everyones' knowledge of the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogskin
You said that I believe in building a team through free agency (as opposed to you). That is not what I believe at all, and I don't think I ever said anything that indicated that. I believe in using both, as the Redskins are doing now. Everything in my post was in direct response to your initial theory, and was intended to demonstrate the flaws in it - nothing more. Actual statistics on the success rate of draftees makes a one-year draft-only rebuilding plan virtually impossible. That is the point I was attempting to make.
Again, I may have misunderstood you. It may be a matter of degrees that we are talking about. I'm a very draft-oriented guy and you are more free agency-oriented. I don't forget about free agency and you don't forget about the draft, but we have different priorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogskin
As far as their past history of free agents, I agree they have made many bad decisions. But draft decisions are even more difficult to get "right" than free agent signings. The difference this season is Gibbs (especially in free agent signings - his real area of expertise).
IMO, while it might be easier to screw up a draft pick than a free-agent pickup, the costs associated with screwing up a free-agent pickup are a lot higher since the contracts tend to be much larger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogskin
Again I will offer my challenge. Repost your original statement in this thread after week 10, and let's look at its validity then. In fact, repost my initial response also - if I am wrong, have at it and I will be here to take it on the chin and eat crow (both friendly and unfriendly).
I can tell you that by Week 10, you will be right. As I said in my initial post I think Brunell will lead us to the playoffs this season and definately next season. But I'm evaluating this offseason's moves in terms of its long-term impact as in 2-3 years from now.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:19 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
If there is anyone else out there who agrees with anything I say, please let me know because I feel like I am getting pounded harder than Tracy Lords in a frat house.

:smashfrea
Ramseyfan, I think the big thing here is, that Gibbs has probably been the most successful coach in Redskin history, and one of the best ever in the NFL. And right now there is an unbelievable wave of good feelings about his return, and a strong belief that he will do the right things for our team. So when you criticize his entire approach, and do it before training camp has even opened, you are certain to be met with overwhelming opposition. Now, you had the guts to present an opposing theory to "God", with absolutely no basis. If the team starts out 3-7, and your draftees are all stars, and you re-present this, you are a genius. EVERYONE will jump on your bandwagon!!!
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:23 AM   #40
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it makes perfect sense ramseyfan we'll see how the current class ends up doing this season (and long term)... i agree that barrow and brunell aren't going to be around too long, but this season has much more promise than the last two... (after i saw spurrier win the preseason two years back, i knew we were in trouble).
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:30 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramseyfan
I can tell you that by Week 10, you will be right. As I said in my initial post I think Brunell will lead us to the playoffs this season and definately next season. But I'm evaluating this offseason's moves in terms of its long-term impact as in 2-3 years from now.
Well, I did not merely mean that the Redskin record would show the validity or lack of it. I also meant that by week 10, there will be SOME clue as to the future of your draft selections. I would predict (based just on past statistics), that of your 5 picks (leaving Cooley out, who we got anyhow), At least one will no longer be in the NFL, and not more than 2 will have any significant impact whatsoever. Of course it will take longer for definitive results, but this would be a pretty good indication.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:37 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogskin
Well, I did not merely mean that the Redskin record would show the validity or lack of it. I also meant that by week 10, there will be SOME clue as to the future of your draft selections. I would predict (based just on past statistics), that of your 5 picks (leaving Cooley out, who we got anyhow), At least one will no longer be in the NFL, and not more than 2 will have any significant impact whatsoever. Of course it will take longer for definitive results, but this would be a pretty good indication.
Okay, fair enough....I'll take you up on that.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:39 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by That Guy
it makes perfect sense ramseyfan we'll see how the current class ends up doing this season (and long term)... i agree that barrow and brunell aren't going to be around too long, but this season has much more promise than the last two... (after i saw spurrier win the preseason two years back, i knew we were in trouble).
We definately have a lot more hope than we have had since Gibbs left. Unlike other years, I think this year's hope is well founded.

Last year (before the season began) I thought we'd go 7-9 but this year I think we'll be 10-6.
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Old 07-23-2004, 01:43 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogskin
Ramseyfan, I think the big thing here is, that Gibbs has probably been the most successful coach in Redskin history, and one of the best ever in the NFL. And right now there is an unbelievable wave of good feelings about his return, and a strong belief that he will do the right things for our team. So when you criticize his entire approach, and do it before training camp has even opened, you are certain to be met with overwhelming opposition. Now, you had the guts to present an opposing theory to "God", with absolutely no basis. If the team starts out 3-7, and your draftees are all stars, and you re-present this, you are a genius. EVERYONE will jump on your bandwagon!!!
Again, I'm a skeptic so I look for our weak spots even while I'm cheering hard for the team. In 2002 I was highly skeptical of Spurrier and my doubts proved well founded. Last year I was one of the most pessimistic Warpathers when I said we'd go 7-9 and our dline would be a huge weakness. I'm not trying to say I'm always right; God knows I'm wrong as often as I am right. But, I think I'm right about how this offseason will affect us down the road.

This year I think we'll go far (we'll get kicked out of the first round of the playoffs), but I am skeptical about how this offseason will affect our team over the course of the next 3 years.
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Old 07-23-2004, 07:17 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by offiss
The biggest prob. I have with what we did in the draft this year, was giving that 2nd rd pick for Portis, I think if we stuck to our gun's we would have pulled that deal off straight up for Champ, other than that I was very happy, RF, your plan leaves us week in the secondary, I don't know if I would have taken all the same player's, but I thought you did a fairly credible job with your pick's, on the other hand, I was prob. the first guy to start screaming Taylor, the day I found out we held the #5 pick, I just love this kid as a player, he could go down as an all time great, and I wouldn't give that up, I still feel he's the best player in a very deep draft, I know a lot of people where worried about signing Taylor on time, well look at the trouble jackson is giving the Ram's in that dept., and by the way, I like jones better than Jackson.
The problem with that is that Portis was not OFFERED straight up for Champ. Our front office talked with them for days, and that was the best deal we could get. Remember, there was a time issue with Champ, and we were the big loser if no deal was cut to move him. I think the deal will prove to be absolutely spectacular!! And in addition to that, don't forget about the new "enforcement" that is going into place this year that will handcuff the DB's and open up passing games. Let's see how many WR's champ can shut down in the new environment.
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