Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Redskins Locker Room


View Poll Results: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended
Zero Games 35 23.18%
Four Games 9 5.96%
Eight Games 19 12.58%
Season 88 58.28%
Voters: 151. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-19-2007, 06:58 PM   #106
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
If the option is there for him to take leave without pay, do you think that would be the best option for him, the team, and the league?
Without pay you say? For an entire season? What for? So I can drown on my own sorrow? No one but fans think about what's best for the team. I mean, you don't go into work everyday and think to yourself "by god, I'm going to do what's best for the team."

Sure, if you have TB you probably would, and rightly should, think of others first but when it comes down to your paycheck, your team and your employer it's all about you. It's all business. Pay me to sit at home if you want me to "take unpaid time off" otherwise see you tomorrow Bob.
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 07-19-2007, 06:58 PM   #107
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I wonder if your employer should be free to suspend you if you're accused of a hit-and-run with your car.
If there is a dead guy, on top of your car, which is sitting in your garage, I think a suspension is warranted. To think that Vick is innocent of the charges is almost crazy. How a guy doesn't know that he has several buildings painted black on his property with dozens of dead dogs in his yard escapes me. If he's not guilty of running a dog-fighting ring, he's guilty of being one of the dumbest guys on the face of the earth.

Besides, as others have noted, the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" applies to criminal proceedings. A person can be held civilly liable for misconduct if a jury simply decides that it is more likely than not that the person committed the tortious act. For example, OJ was NOT convicted of a crime, but was held civilly liable.

Moreover, employers can suspend or fire employees based on hearsay or other types of evidence that a jury would never hear. Employers need not conduct mini-trials or await criminal convictions before firing an employee for inappropriate conduct. People do and should get fired all the time for sexual harassment, racist remarks, etc. even though no trial was held. I'm not sure why we have elevated the "right" to play in the NFL above what it is.....a job.

I don't think many Vick supporters would be happy if some jerk at work who made racist remarks or who exercised his right to free speech by bearing a swastika tat on his forehead had to be convicted of a crime before an employer could fire him.
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:03 PM   #108
Wildcard Bitches
 
RobH4413's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Bethesda, MD
Age: 29
Posts: 2,496
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I wonder if your employer should be free to suspend you if you're accused of a hit-and-run with your car.
According to the newest policy-

If your past history of hit-and-runs has damaged the reputation of the company, then yes, you should be suspended.
__________________
This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps!
RobH4413 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:11 PM   #109
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
If there is a dead guy, on top of your car, which is sitting in your garage, I think a suspension is warranted. To think that Vick is innocent of the charges is almost crazy. How a guy doesn't know that he has several buildings painted black on his property with dozens of dead dogs in his yard escapes me. If he's not guilty of running a dog-fighting ring, he's guilty of being one of the dumbest guys on the face of the earth.

Besides, as others have noted, the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" applies to criminal proceedings. A person can be held civilly liable for misconduct if a jury simply decides that it is more likely than not that the person committed the tortious act.

Moreover, employers can suspend or fire employees based on hearsay or other types of evidence that a jury would never hear. Employers need not conduct mini-trials or await criminal convictions before firing an employee for inappropriate conduct. People do and should get fired all the time for sexual harassment, racist remarks, etc. even though no trial was held. I'm not sure why we have elevated the "right" to play in the NFL above what it is.....a job.
I highly doubt Vick is innocent but I don't like the notion that we convict someone before he's convicted in court (civil and criminal). It would set an unbelievable precedence to have people convicted by their employer merely for being indicted/investigate.

No doubt, your employer will want you out if you're under suspicion for a criminal act but they don't terminate you right there and then. You reach an agreement and part company amicably.

Sure, they can fire you at will but the truth is there is no such thing when you know your rights. If you're unjustly terminated you have recourse through the court system. Bob, meet my lawyer. His name is John Payme and he likes to get paid and so do I Bob.
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:12 PM   #110
Registered User
 
hesscl34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,782
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
If the option is there for him to take leave without pay, do you think that would be the best option for him, the team, and the league?
The reality is this isn't just about him, it's about the NFL players as a whole. They seem to be getting into trouble more and more and more, and I hate to say it but something needs to start happening now if not for any other reason than to make it clear to players that if they are even considering criminal activity, think twice. People in the public eye are made examples of all of the time. Conviction or no conviction he was indicted and I think that deserves action by the NFL. He needs to be suspended.
hesscl34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:12 PM   #111
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobH4413 View Post
According to the newest policy-

If your past history of hit-and-runs has damaged the reputation of the company, then yes, you should be suspended.
OK, are any of Vicks past transgression comparable to his current one?
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:20 PM   #112
Registered User
 
hesscl34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,782
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
I highly doubt Vick is innocent but I don't like notion that we convict someone before he's convicted in court (civil and criminal). It would set an unbelievable presence to have people convicted by their employer merely for being indicted/investigate.

No doubt, your employer will want you out if you're under suspicion for a criminal act but they don't terminate you right there and then. You reach an agreement and part company amicably.

Sure, they can fire you at will but the truth is there is no such thing when you know your rights. If you're unjustly terminated you have recourse through the court system. Bob, meet my lawyer. His name is John Payme and he likes to get paid and so do I Bob.
again.. I think this is not as simple as an employer/employee relationship. He is a public figure, and that does make a difference in how you handle these things.. and it will also send a message to the young players out there watching how the NFL responds. As a pro athlete he has a responsibilty to the public, as an individual at work you do not. He didn't respect his role in life, or his priviledge of being who he is.... All that god given talent that he has, and he made a choice to be "involved" in this..and you think he should get away with this because he's a paid employee? It's not right.
hesscl34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:39 PM   #113
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hesscl34 View Post
again.. I think this is not as simple as an employer/employee relationship. He is a public figure, and that does make a difference in how you handle these things.. and it will also send a message to the young players out there watching how the NFL responds. As a pro athlete he has a responsibilty to the public, as an individual at work you do not. He didn't respect his role in life, or his priviledge of being who he is....
So you think public figures should be held to a higher standard and when they falter we should make an example out of them? The NFL is the parent, Vick is the older child, and younger players and the public are the younger children? Do I have it right?

You think too highly of public figures. They are people just like the rest of us. They're only responsible for themselves, their family, and to people they care about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hesscl34 View Post
All that god given talent that he has, and he made a choice to be "involved" in this..and you think he should get away with this because he's a paid employee? It's not right.
Were did I say that?
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:42 PM   #114
Registered User
 
hesscl34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,782
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
So you think public figures should be held to a higher standard and when they falter we should make an example out of them? The NFL is the parent, Vick is the older child, and younger players and the public are the younger children? Do I have it right?

You think too highly of public figures. They are people just like the rest of us. They're only responsible for themselves, their family, and to people they care about.



Were did I say that?
No, they are not only respnosible for themselves. Not when they have thousands of young kids looking up to them.

And I wasn't talking about "you" saying that.. just over all.
hesscl34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:45 PM   #115
Franchise Player
 
Sheriff Gonna Getcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 35
Posts: 8,317
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

All fair points Saden. We merely differ in our opinions as to what the NFL should be able to do here, regardless of the outcome of US v. Vick. I also agree that celebs like Vick are people just like you and me and should be held to the same standard (not higher or lower).
Sheriff Gonna Getcha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:55 PM   #116
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 45,107
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Without pay you say? For an entire season? What for? So I can drown on my own sorrow? No one but fans think about what's best for the team. I mean, you don't go into work everyday and think to yourself "by god, I'm going to do what's best for the team."

Sure, if you have TB you probably would, and rightly should, think of others first but when it comes down to your paycheck, your team and your employer it's all about you. It's all business. Pay me to sit at home if you want me to "take unpaid time off" otherwise see you tomorrow Bob.
Whoops major typo on my part. I meant "with pay"
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 07:59 PM   #117
Registered User
 
hesscl34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,782
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
All fair points Saden. We merely differ in our opinions as to what the NFL should be able to do here, regardless of the outcome of US v. Vick. I also agree that celebs like Vick are people just like you and me and should be held to the same standard (not higher or lower).
It the case of a celeb, I would agree, I think.. but he's really a rold model for young athletes by being an NFL star. It comes with being who he is... It's not like he's Paris Hilton.
hesscl34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 08:01 PM   #118
Registered User
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,069
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hesscl34 View Post
No, they are not only respnosible for themselves. Not when they have thousands of young kids looking up to them.

And I wasn't talking about "you" saying that.. just over all.
Ah, role model for this kids argument. We have to show the kids how bad of a man he is? That'll teach them a valuable life lesson not to do as he did.

What if Vick is not convicted? What's the lesson there? Money talks bullshit walks? Become a pro athlete and you can get away with anything?
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 08:10 PM   #119
Registered User
 
hesscl34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Germantown, MD
Posts: 2,782
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

Quote:
Originally Posted by saden1 View Post
Ah, role model for this kids argument. We have to show the kids how bad of a man he is? That'll teach them a valuable life lesson not to do as he did.

What if Vick is not convicted? What's the lesson there? Money talks bullshit walks? Become a pro athlete and you can get away with anything?
Let's be realistic here. We all know he was involved.. if he gets off, then good for him (for having a smart lawyer), but at the end of the day he WAS involved, and that is enough I think for the NFL to take action. They have tape of him telling one of the owners to kill a dog... how is that not involved? If I were in his shoes I'd be thankful for the gift of my talent, I wouldn't be throwing it away for some thug dog fighting ring. The NFL needs a serious "clean up" in my opinon. Give these kids something to strive for, to have a better life.... don't turn a blind eye and let them be criminals AND pro athletes.
hesscl34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2007, 09:22 PM   #120
MVP
 
12thMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: washington, D.C.
Posts: 11,458
Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

I think we've had some very well thought out posts and good arguments on both sides of the fence.

In my opinion the best and most reasonable way for the NFL to handle this is to remove themselves from trying to determine whether or not Vick is actually guilty of a crime or not; They need to, and I believe they will, make their decision independent of the courts, the judge, or what any lawyer provides. The NFL would do themselves an injustice, in my opinion, of attempting to play the role of lawyer or judge.

Goodell's intention is to clean up the image of the NFL. Period. And sometimes that involves hardcore evidence and guilt beyond reasonable doubt and sometimes it doesn't. If Goodell makes his decision based on Vick's criminal involvement or lack thereof, then justice, according to the NFL, may not run truly run its course. Because it's the image and the perception of the league that the Commish is trying to restore. And on that basis, I think Vick will be, at the very least, suspended for several games, if not the entire season.

Now if the court of law later determines that Vick is actually guilty of said crimes, then obviously the NFL must submit to the higher authority and either extend Vick's suspension indefinetely or ban him from the league all together.

My 12 cents.
12thMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.44179 seconds with 10 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25