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Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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Old 07-26-2007, 07:36 AM   #61
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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Originally Posted by irish
I guess if you are looking for proof of lowered standards (from anything less than a super bowl win is acceptable) see post 24 of this thread. If that isnt a lowered standard I dont know what is. I honestly think I lot of fans think that way now because losing and mediocre play seems to have become endemic to this organization.
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Originally Posted by hesscl34 View Post
We made it to the second round of the playoffs two years ago, which is more than A LOT of teams have done. We do have what it takes.. I just think it takes time. The fans around here have such high standards. I'm not saying that's wrong, but there will be times when things are going our way and times they are not. It happens to EVERY team. There are teams that have never seen the Super Bowl. Be lucky you aren't their fans. Being able to watch players like ST, Portis, ARL, and Moss I think is a privilege. I get excited just thinking about what they are going to do out there. We don't always win, but there is almost ALWAYS a good show from someone. It's not boring!!!! HAIL! J
Wow - You take a perfectly reasonable, well-thought out post, stating a realistic point of view, that encourages an optimistic way to approach the upcoming season and finds the high points in the past 10 years and sh-- all over it. Clearly, you're the kind of person who, if given a pony, would say "look at all this crap I have to clean up".

Hess' post is not saying "Hey, we're losers but it doesnt matter". Rather, it merely points out that even in the losing years there are highpoints. Further, we have made it deep into the playoffs recently and there is hope that we can succeed again.

You seem to argue that, b/c the team is not a consistent play-off contender and because people are not miserably unhappy due to this fact, everyone has low standards. I disagree. This team is my passion and I am truly miserable after every loss. At the same time, since it is my passion and I refuse remain unhappy and will (as Hess points out) find the bright spots (last year's home game against the Cowboys for example).

Because I intend to enjoy my passion, I will continually root, cheer and find some shred of hope in the things done by this team and which I have no control over. Further, I will argue vociferously and, hopefully, intelligently when people give me crap about the Skins. They may shake their heads and laugh BUT I will consistently reinforce the positives so that when they do, inevitably, succeed, I can say "I told you so".

You seem to relish your decision to refuse to find positives about the team. Does that mean you have higher standards than Hess? No. It simply means you enjoy being a grumbling curmudgeon and she does not.
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Old 07-26-2007, 07:39 AM   #62
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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So because the Skins haven't won it all in a long time or haven't been a "good team" for many years we should stop supporting them? Isn't that the definition of a fairweather fan? When they start winning again, is it alright to start supporting them again? If so, we would be labled as bandwagon jumpers instaed of true fans that stuck it out durring tough times.

Any person who switches teams because their first isn't winning anymore was never a true fan in the first place.

I will watch the Redskins play for the rest of my life and believe they will win every game because this is my team. That isn't lowering my standards, thats being a true fan and supporting my team through thick and thin.

I will never accept losing. It hurts to see the team you love lose so often, but it does make seasons like '05 that much better because you did stick it out. Its all about loyalty, not lowering your standards
.
Excellent post and I thought the bolded part was particularly well said.

Up yours Irish! (chill - j/k)
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:22 AM   #63
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

All the things mentioned in post 24 are bright spots in those seasons and I dont recall where I said anyone should stop supporting the team. I have'nt. However when someone tells me I should be happy because the redskins went to the 2nd round of the playoff 2 years ago (he didnt mention it was only the 2nd time in like 15 years) and I should consider myself lucky I am not a fan of the Cards, Lions, etc. because they have sucked longer than the skins, I cant help but shake my head in sorrow.

The standard used to be playoff success every year and now it seems I should be thankful for a glimmer of sunshine twice in 15 years. Its about loyality and standards. Everyone on this board is loyal to the skins, I just dont let my loyality get in the way of my high standards for this organization.

In the end I guess we have to agree to disagree on this.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:48 AM   #64
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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I just dont let my loyality get in the way of my high standards for this organization.
And I wont let 15 years of failure get in the way of my love for the Redskins like you.
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:51 AM   #65
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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I wouldn't mind being lumped with the Saints based on what they did last year. But I know you like the 15 year look so I guess that's out.

You are missing the point - would you rather have a team like the Saints for example that make the playoffs once every 10-15 years - or a team that in that same 10-15 year span is competative and has winning seasons - may or maynot make the playoffs - but are expected to make the playoffs every year?

Personally - I'll take the team that is a consistant winner - expected to make playoffs every year than the team that blow everyone out of the water 1 year out of every 10
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:00 AM   #66
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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Well, according to ESPN nearly 54% think the Skins are going to the playoffs this year.

I would think in most people's eyes anything less would be a failure. I don't see Skins fans having low standards at all. If we had low standards I fail to understand why people would continue to go to the games or buy the merch. Wouldn't we have given up after 15 years of misery?? The high ticket prices and obstructed view seating doesn't even keep people away.

its amazing how when a survey or article goes against the skins it has no relavance, the person has no clue what they are talking about, but when its in the Skins favor all of the sudden it carries weight.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:09 AM   #67
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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Let me clarify that when I said "high standards" what I meant is that some of us fans don't give any room for failure and are very hard on the SKINS. All teams have their ups and downs.. and most fans here understand that. I think to be great you have to experiance humility first and learn from it. Joe Gibbs is one coach that understands this and I think we will all see progress in the very near future. Last year was a blind blessing .. and I think our team will benefit greatly from hard times in the long run...

aren't we all just a bit tired of saying this year in and year out. Every since 1999 its been, boy wait until next year. Next year its ours. I think I am just a bit tired of saying that. I want to be able to say we consistantly make the playoffs, make a superbowl run, and can pretty much count on playing in jan. Right now, not so much!
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:32 AM   #68
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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its amazing how when a survey or article goes against the skins it has no relavance, the person has no clue what they are talking about, but when its in the Skins favor all of the sudden it carries weight.
Don't be so quick to make such a broad generalization. Personally I don't dismiss all negative commentary regarding the team and praise everything that's positive.

If criticism is warranted that's fine with me, and I'm not beyond criticizing the team when I feel it's justified. I think what most people don't appreciate around here is ignorant or uneducated commentary on the team, which we seem to see more often than not from those in the national media.

I think the most educated and informed commentary regarding the team comes from those closest to it, local media, the fans, etc.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:36 AM   #69
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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You are missing the point - would you rather have a team like the Saints for example that make the playoffs once every 10-15 years - or a team that in that same 10-15 year span is competative and has winning seasons - may or maynot make the playoffs - but are expected to make the playoffs every year?

Personally - I'll take the team that is a consistant winner - expected to make playoffs every year than the team that blow everyone out of the water 1 year out of every 10
Actually you're missing my point. What's happened in the last 10-15 years doesn't have any effect on this season. That's my simple point, I don't see why we have to keep referring to the past when talking about what could happen this year. I doubt Saints fans are still crying about what happened in the distant past when talking about this upcoming season.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:57 AM   #70
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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Don't be so quick to make such a broad generalization. Personally I don't dismiss all negative commentary regarding the team and praise everything that's positive.

If criticism is warranted that's fine with me, and I'm not beyond criticizing the team when I feel it's justified. I think what most people don't appreciate around here is ignorant or uneducated commentary on the team, which we seem to see more often than not from those in the national media.

I think the most educated and informed commentary regarding the team comes from those closest to it, local media, the fans, etc.
I am wondering how fans can be some of the most educated and informed about a team when they can only get their information from the media? Fans are knowledgeable about what they read and see but they really have no inside access (as all media do) to what the players and coaches are doing. Even the media only knows what they are being told by the teams and that may not always be what is really going on.

Fans have lots of good commentary but its all conjecture based on what they read or see on tv.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:10 AM   #71
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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I am wondering how fans can be some of the most educated and informed about a team when they can only get their information from the media? Fans are knowledgeable about what they read and see but they really have no inside access (as all media do) to what the players and coaches are doing. Even the media only knows what they are being told by the teams and that may not always be what is really going on.

Fans have lots of good commentary but its all conjecture based on what they read or see on tv.
It's because we take in every nugget about the team possible... where as people who write about all 32 teams just don't have the time to digest every little fact about every team.

You said it yourself earlier in this thread that you pay more attention to the Skins vs. a team like the Cardinals, so your view on the Skins is going to be more critical since you are better informed about the Skins vs. other teams.

Regarding inside access, we probably have more inside access than you realize.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:30 AM   #72
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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It's because we take in every nugget about the team possible... where as people who write about all 32 teams just don't have the time to digest every little fact about every team.

You said it yourself earlier in this thread that you pay more attention to the Skins vs. a team like the Cardinals, so your view on the Skins is going to be more critical since you are better informed about the Skins vs. other teams.

Regarding inside access, we probably have more inside access than you realize.
What I am saying is those nuggests are fed to the fan by the media. Its second hand info that may or may not be accurate. Fans can be very knowledgeable but that knowledge has a high potential to be inaccurate. Unless that fan or media person is actually sitting in the team meetings (which they are not) they dont know for certain what the team is really doing.

Warpath fans have a level of inside access that non-warpath fans dont. That said, I think the average sam sixpack fan has no inside access and never had more conversation with a player or coach than "can I have your autograph".
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:33 AM   #73
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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Actually you're missing my point. What's happened in the last 10-15 years doesn't have any effect on this season. That's my simple point, I don't see why we have to keep referring to the past when talking about what could happen this year. I doubt Saints fans are still crying about what happened in the distant past when talking about this upcoming season.

the past has nothing to do with what COULD happen this season, your right. Nor does the past (3 super bowls rings) keep us from the continous media ripping we get for overpaying players and continually losing every season. My point is this : everyone, well most everyone, wants to put us on a platform same with the top teams in the NFL. We do not deserve that, I hope you understand that. You cant go into a season without looking over the past few years. We use to get more positive hype than anyone in the NFL over the 1st 2 or 3 seasons of Danny (meaning picked to win) after the media see's that Danny has no clue what he doing, and we over pay, over pay for people and continue to lose, this is why we are constantly made to look like fools. I am just tired of hearing people say we deserve better, when in fact we dont.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:36 AM   #74
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

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Then be a Colts fan.
why is it when some one with a different view of things, maybe not so positive toward the Skins, you tell them they aren't a fan, or root for someone else??

I have been a skins fan 33 years. that wont change. I reserve the right to critisize them if I want, as you do. just because I say something negative doesn't mean I love my team any less. Its not like i am making up the losing seasons, they seem to happen every year.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:37 AM   #75
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Re: Yahoo! Preseason POWER Rankings

And for the most part you can get a broader look at the team when you take into account every perspective. And given a little intelligent speculation, you get a real feel for what our team is all about. Now, what you pick up and believe based on other people's opinions is up to you. We prefer statistics here.

The reason forums like this survive, is we cant accurately predict an upcoming season's outcome. No one can, so we all try to work together to figure it out. With one goal in mind, being a more informed fan.
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