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Missing Champ Bailey...

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Old 07-29-2004, 03:31 PM   #31
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Champ didn't play up to his reputation last year. He clearly looked at times like he didn't want to be here. I can't blame him considering the coaching staff, but I'm glad we didn't pay him what he wanted, and I'm thrilled to have Portis. I think Smoot and Springs will hold up fine.
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Old 07-29-2004, 03:33 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by smootsmack
I think Springs will see a revival in his career now that he's playing back in his hometown.

well, it is his home town, but he did grow up here as a cowboys fan becuase of his dad... we'll have to make sure he got rid of those feelings.
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Old 07-29-2004, 03:35 PM   #33
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Taylor is a bum? come on now. Well why did holmgrem get rid of him and get Taylor? they upgraded that position is the conventional wisdom on that subject
the conventional wisdom is that he wanted to get rid of an injury prone player for one that isnt. Taylor is a solid corner, he does his job. But hes not a top ten corner by any means. He had one great year last year, for some reason made the probowl, and then he went to get his last big paycheck at the end of his career.
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Old 07-29-2004, 03:45 PM   #34
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I'm glad about the trade, and what we got in return for Champ. Given a choice between the two players, I take Portis in a heartbeat.

I've also been saying for several years now that Champ is overated. He's a GREAT corner, no doubt, but I don't even know if I'd label him a legitimate "shutdown" corner. If given the choice, based soley on talent, I would rather take C Mac from Baltimore. Don't get me wrong -- I'd rather have Champ than not, but I cannot understand why the sports media is all over this dudes jock. Consider how telling it is that last year when facing his former coach, who drafted him no less, Norv repeatedly went AFTER Champ time after time with the game on the line -- and succeeded seemingly at will. I could point out more examples, but will stop there for now. Of course, our crappy d-line has to share some of the blame for Champs performance last season. But bottomline, he didn't want to be here, so our FO did a hell of a job getting a player like Portis out of the whole situation.

"Thanks for the memories Champ, good luck in Denver. Now get your ass outta here..."
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Old 07-29-2004, 05:07 PM   #35
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I was just reading on ESPN.com a quote from Champ Bailey about the trade. " You've got a guy in Portis who has done alot of great things on the feild, but you dont know if hes gonna last as long as I am. Its hard to find Corners, or at least a great one. When You've got a good corner, you've got a good defense." - Broncos DB Champ Bailey.

EASSSY Champ, I dont have a problem with that quote until he says , when you've got a good cornder, you've got a good defense. Please. I think all this corner-back stuff is overratted. I will take 1500 yards from Portis over having Bailey here any day of the week. His presence is not going to change our defense as a whole, not one bit. Having Portis, a good running back on offense, is the key to having a good offense. Sorry, Champ, but our defense sucked last year, and you were on our team. One position alone will not make a defense good. I feel about a 100 times better going in with what we have, personel wise, than I did last year defensivley. That dosent even include the coaching factor. I'm glad we have Portis on our team.
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Old 07-29-2004, 05:37 PM   #36
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Reading the article actually made me respect Champ a little more... whether he really meant that he wanted to stay in Washington is something we'll never know, but I understand a little more where he's coming from. Guys, we've grown up being Skins fans- been through all of the ups and downs. Champ went to UGA and was drafted during the Norv years. He went through the a multitude of defensive coordinators during his years here- how can we expect him to have the same passion for the Skins when he doesn't even know the stability of a single defensive scheme? His entire career here, he not only went through different coordinators, but also different players around him (moreso than most teams' turnover ratio), as well as different playbooks nearly every year. The context from what we know about Redskins tradition and history was probably never seen from Champ's perspective.

Yes, LaVar went through the same things and he's stayed loyal to the Skins. But let's not be quick to forget the phat contract extension he received that bolstered his loyalty a little bit to. Yes, we also gave Champ a more than fair offer... but compare what Denver offerred him and tell me it's not a significant difference. We're not talking pennies- he was offerred way more money for less years. In this case, the system worked for him b/c his agent/himself knew what he could fetch on the open market. The Skins had a choice to make in deciding who to give franchise money to- and it went to LA. I'm not saying it was wrong (in fact, I'm happy we kept LaVar), but if Champ requires the same amount more power to him if he gets it.

I do sense that he really has more of a sense of loyalty a stronger sense to win than most athletes- the article mentioned him saying that he was real sad to see the Skins let Davis and Johnson go. The thing that caught me was that he wasn't even down to get traded straight up for LaDainian Tomlinson (even though that's an awesome trade)... but he saw a chance to win in Denver and that's why he went there. He was tired of losing in DC. So are the fans right? But the difference is- we, as fans, know what Gibbs brings to the table after so many years of losing... Champ was just tired of seeing wholesale changes every year and continuing to lose as a player on the field.

Sorry if I'm sounding like i'm trying to hard to defend him- in all honesty we're a much better team after the trade for Portis, drafting Taylor, the FA pickups, and the new coaching additions. But I remember him being one of my favorite players while he was a Skin, never complaining during the offseason upheavals, during the season, and most importantly always putting himself out on the field. BTW- every corner in this league gets burned at one point or another... you put your best corner on the best wideout every game and it's going to happen eventually. Champ's still the man at his position though.
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Old 07-29-2004, 05:45 PM   #37
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That being said though, I think we need to look at the bigger picture. And Springs, Portis is better than say Champ and Trung. And like Hogskins points out, let's not underestimate Gregg Williams. He'll make good things happen with this defense.[/QUOTE]
I think you said it all right there.
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itvnetop
BTW- every corner in this league gets burned at one point or another... you put your best corner on the best wideout every game and it's going to happen eventually. Champ's still the man at his position though.
Of course. I wasn't trying to say that BECAUSE he got burnt he sucks. As I said, I'd rather have him on my team than not. That being said, he got burned REPEATEDLY last year -- and by repeatedly, I mean time after time after time.

Just think for a moment about what I said regarding the Dolphins game.
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:32 PM   #39
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Am I the only one who remembers Champ not exactly being a tackling machine? I know that there are a lot of corners out there that are not enamored with hitting people but he was too Deion-esque for my tastes. I'm curious if anyone knows how Springs is against the run? Champ was horrible in that regard.
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Old 07-29-2004, 06:59 PM   #40
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Am I the only one who remembers Champ not exactly being a tackling machine? I know that there are a lot of corners out there that are not enamored with hitting people but he was too Deion-esque for my tastes. I'm curious if anyone knows how Springs is against the run? Champ was horrible in that regard.

From what I heard Springs is supposed to be pretty good against the run. He's got good size and he's physical. Our corners will be fine. I'm expecting Smoot to have a good year and Springs, let's hope can stay healthy and be effective.
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Old 07-29-2004, 09:00 PM   #41
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LT for champ isn't an awesome trade at all from champ's perspective... and being on a losing team means more change, and less chance to settle down and shine, which in turn, means his next big check wont be so hot.
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Old 07-29-2004, 10:14 PM   #42
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LT for champ isn't an awesome trade at all from champ's perspective... and being on a losing team means more change, and less chance to settle down and shine, which in turn, means his next big check wont be so hot.
if that trade was actually possible I would have gone into shock, cuz as much as I like the trade for Portis, LT is by far the most talented rb in the league right now and is only 22 or 23 I think and a trade for him after Gibbs coming back would just be too much for my mind to handle,lol.
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Old 07-30-2004, 07:54 AM   #43
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yeah, the only way it'd be possible is if we offered our entire secondary or something though

SD has much more pressing needs than one good CB at $65 mill (or whatever it was).
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Old 07-30-2004, 10:49 AM   #44
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It's obvious the trade is beneficial to both teams, my hope is that we meet them in the Super Bowl soon and settle it on the field.

As far as the debate about who is the more talented corner, I'd say Ty Law is probably the best just because he always seems to be making plays. That said, I think changing systems every year has severely stunted Champ's growth, and LaVar's as well. It takes time to foster trust and to really understand the point that coaches are trying to make, witness LaVar's statements about Marvin Lewis playing him at end. I can respect Champ wanting to leave the Skins because there's no way he can have the same passion that we fans do about the team because for him it is his real life and career. When Gibbs came back all of us welcomed him with open arms because we believe that Snyder finally has brought us stability. But it's a lot easier to judge from the outside looking in. From Champ's perspective things must look a lot differently, he witnessed a lot of turnover and this last move might seem brilliant to all of us but to him it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. No matter.

In the end, we do lose a great corner but we pick up a darned good one in Springs. And we also get a great back in Portis, so I'll take my chances with CP.
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Old 07-30-2004, 11:31 AM   #45
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right, people keep trying to figure out who got the better end of the deal, but honestly, I think both teams came out ahead.

champ was NOT going to stay here, so we got a top five running game out of it... something we desperately needed, and something gibbs would hate to be without. Champ was replaced by extensive secondary depth which should counteract his loss.

denver got an improved secondary so its no longer the sad excuse it was... they gave up a big back who was (rightfully) a bit miffed about earning minimum wage... they lost him, but already had good depth at RB and a good O-line to help out.
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