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Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

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Old 08-16-2007, 04:11 PM   #61
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

And then there's this take:

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Old 08-16-2007, 04:24 PM   #62
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmek25 View Post
can someone explain to me why i can go out on the street and sell drugs, and walk away with a citation. but if i fight dogs, i do jail time? something doesnt seem quite right with that picture
The generalities of your comparison make it hard to compare and contrast the two situtations.

Each crime (dogfighting v. selling drugs) has various degrees. What Vick did appears to be at the most eggregious end of the dogfighting crimes. If you were the financier of a drug ring, you would probably walk away from the situation with more than "a citation". On the other hand, if you were fought your dog one time at an illegal dog fighting event, you probably would not do jail time.

Why jail time for one and not the other? Penalties are set out by statutes and within them certain ranges are given. Sentencing guidelines are developed and then followed by the Judges - subject to review by the appellate courts. Any time courts develop guidelines that offend the public or seem improper, the laws can be modified to address them. Based on the sentencing range, prosecutors develop guidelines as to appropriate settlement offers. Courts are not bound by the prosecutors recommendation reached after a plea agreement (Regardless of the offer by the prosecutors, the court could reject it and substitute a longer, or shorter, as long as it is within the courts sentencing guidelines).

Thus, the laws set out the penalties and a certain level of judicial/prosecutorial discretion comes into play depending on the severity of the crime w/in its general category. (first degree murder > second degree murder > manslaughter).

The bottom line is that, if the public doesn't like the categories, then the public can change the penalties.

If the most time Vick could have done for the indictment, as I read it, was 6 years, I am not seeing anything out of line. In fact, given the coordinated and broad deceptions involved and the brutal nature of his actions towards animals in his care, or the care of those operating in partnership with him, I think that a maximun of six years is low.

If you believe penalties for "selling drugs" should be stiffer and require a minimum jail time in all cases, feel free to lobby for such a change. Many will agree with you.

Many will also agree with me that the abusive nature of dogfighting warrants MUCH stiffer penalties than the minimal jail time involved for extremely abusive behavior (Dogfighting is a bloodsport that requires its participants to attack and maim or kill their opponent and is done for the pleasure or profit of those who care for the participants. To me requiring living beings in your care to subject themselves to injury and/or death for your personal fun and profit is abusive).

Thus, while you may not see dogfighting as inately abusive, I would suggest that a majority of Americans would consider it worse then small time drug dealing.
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:27 PM   #63
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

Eh It depends on how big the dog fighting operation was. Mike Vick was hosting a HUGE dog fighting operation in his back yard. He should have 6 years MINIMUM. That's beyond cruelty to animals there.
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Old 08-16-2007, 04:39 PM   #64
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

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Originally Posted by mlmpetert View Post
Honestly a year is way to much. He has never been convicted of anything before. How is fighting some dogs (personal property) worth getting a YEAR is prison? Poor guy. No way he should accept.
How did I miss the 110 posts you had before this? One would think the lunacy would stand out.

I said it before. Pretend he wasn't maiming, killing, and abusing dogs. Pretend they were having fingerpainting contests. But understand that those fingerpainting contests were the center of a gambling ring where tens of thousands of dollars were gambled every night illegally with no taxes being declared on those winnings, in the presence of criminals, and that these fingerpainting contests were part of an interstate illegal fingerpainting ring.

I'm still trying to find a fingerpainting metaphor for "rape stand" and for all the illegal narcotics that were stored for the fighting dogs, but you get the picture.
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:11 PM   #65
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrudLee View Post
How did I miss the 110 posts you had before this? One would think the lunacy would stand out.

I said it before. Pretend he wasn't maiming, killing, and abusing dogs. Pretend they were having fingerpainting contests. But understand that those fingerpainting contests were the center of a gambling ring where tens of thousands of dollars were gambled every night illegally with no taxes being declared on those winnings, in the presence of criminals, and that these fingerpainting contests were part of an interstate illegal fingerpainting ring.

I'm still trying to find a fingerpainting metaphor for "rape stand" and for all the illegal narcotics that were stored for the fighting dogs, but you get the picture.
I couldn't have had a better response BrudLee...thank you...and my dog thanks you!
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:14 PM   #66
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrudLee View Post
How did I miss the 110 posts you had before this? One would think the lunacy would stand out.

I said it before. Pretend he wasn't maiming, killing, and abusing dogs. Pretend they were having fingerpainting contests. But understand that those fingerpainting contests were the center of a gambling ring where tens of thousands of dollars were gambled every night illegally with no taxes being declared on those winnings, in the presence of criminals, and that these fingerpainting contests were part of an interstate illegal fingerpainting ring.

I'm still trying to find a fingerpainting metaphor for "rape stand" and for all the illegal narcotics that were stored for the fighting dogs, but you get the picture.
You shouldnt edit my post if you gonna quote me.
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:22 PM   #67
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlmpetert View Post
You shouldnt edit my post if you gonna quote me.
I don't see where he edited your post
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Old 08-16-2007, 05:29 PM   #68
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

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I don't see where he edited your post

You're right, I miss read - Sorry brudlee
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:03 PM   #69
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

either way i think he should be banned for life from nfl. after lying to the commish about ever going to the house and that he had no dealings in this, i would consider his playing days in the NFL are over. or atleast hope the commish sees that and ban him. Seems like vick always has some excuse to try and get out of the situation at hand. If hes even thinking about the plea says hes involved in it and has been busted which to me says hes thinking "hey ill get off with only 1 yr and still have a life after and still be rich instead of fighting this and getting 20yrs and have no career or anything after i get out."
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Old 08-16-2007, 07:17 PM   #70
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
The generalities of your comparison make it hard to compare and contrast the two situtations.

Each crime (dogfighting v. selling drugs) has various degrees. What Vick did appears to be at the most eggregious end of the dogfighting crimes. If you were the financier of a drug ring, you would probably walk away from the situation with more than "a citation". On the other hand, if you were fought your dog one time at an illegal dog fighting event, you probably would not do jail time.

Why jail time for one and not the other? Penalties are set out by statutes and within them certain ranges are given. Sentencing guidelines are developed and then followed by the Judges - subject to review by the appellate courts. Any time courts develop guidelines that offend the public or seem improper, the laws can be modified to address them. Based on the sentencing range, prosecutors develop guidelines as to appropriate settlement offers. Courts are not bound by the prosecutors recommendation reached after a plea agreement (Regardless of the offer by the prosecutors, the court could reject it and substitute a longer, or shorter, as long as it is within the courts sentencing guidelines).

Thus, the laws set out the penalties and a certain level of judicial/prosecutorial discretion comes into play depending on the severity of the crime w/in its general category. (first degree murder > second degree murder > manslaughter).

The bottom line is that, if the public doesn't like the categories, then the public can change the penalties.

If the most time Vick could have done for the indictment, as I read it, was 6 years, I am not seeing anything out of line. In fact, given the coordinated and broad deceptions involved and the brutal nature of his actions towards animals in his care, or the care of those operating in partnership with him, I think that a maximun of six years is low.

If you believe penalties for "selling drugs" should be stiffer and require a minimum jail time in all cases, feel free to lobby for such a change. Many will agree with you.

Many will also agree with me that the abusive nature of dogfighting warrants MUCH stiffer penalties than the minimal jail time involved for extremely abusive behavior (Dogfighting is a bloodsport that requires its participants to attack and maim or kill their opponent and is done for the pleasure or profit of those who care for the participants. To me requiring living beings in your care to subject themselves to injury and/or death for your personal fun and profit is abusive).

Thus, while you may not see dogfighting as inately abusive, I would suggest that a majority of Americans would consider it worse then small time drug dealing.
Well thought out Joe, couldn't agree any more! Nice Post.
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Old 08-16-2007, 08:25 PM   #71
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

Vick better take the deal, if he has any brain cells left........(Which is highly unlikely)
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Old 08-17-2007, 08:04 AM   #72
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

If it has not already been posted, on the Mike and Mike show this a.m. They are quoting a source as stating the Fed deal is believed to be 1-2 years on the table until 9 a.m. this morining.
Apparently in a Federal deal, there is not as secure a guarantee of leniency as in an offense against the state.
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:34 PM   #73
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

he needs to take the deal,sit his ass in jail,train like hell,and be ready to play next season.maybe by then things will have calmed down a little by then!
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:26 PM   #74
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

Well now one of the co defendents says Vick was killing dogs or at least present at the killings. If he actually killed dogs, that might be more charges to nail him with. I year in jail is totally laughable at this point. The prosecution is letting him off the hook. Too much money to be lost by the NFL if a star is in the slammer more than a year. If I was the prosecutor I would know I had this guy by the balls and nail his ass for the 4-6. If Vick was some poor schmoe running the ring from his basement in Detroit, his ass would get the maximum time. I don't know what the NFL is thinking, this guy is damaged goods, and highly overrated as a QB to boot. I say good riddance.
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Old 08-17-2007, 09:36 PM   #75
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Re: Vick Offered Minimum One Year Prison Sentence as Part of Plea Deal

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Thus, while you may not see dogfighting as inately abusive, I would suggest that a majority of Americans would consider it worse then small time drug dealing.
I see it as murder! I treat my dogs as family members. I will spend major $$$ on surgeries or whatever they need to have a healthy life. It is an inhumane act that should never be tolerated or taken lightly.

People will turn their backs on you, but a dog will love you no matter how bad you treat him. All he/she asks for is food, water, and shelter....and you have a friend for life.
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