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RI: Collins is the no. 2

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Old 09-06-2007, 05:31 PM   #61
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

It would definitely make the opposition's game planning and prep difficult.

I don't think the option would work in the NFL though. Defenders are too fast for it, at least it wouldn't work as an offense like in college, it could work if run just occasionally.
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:40 PM   #62
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
So who should be the backup then?
We should have addressed it in the draft a long time ago, as the great evaluator Bobby Beathard used to do, if Gibbs had the fore sight we could have been developing a backup for the last 2 years who would be ready to step in if Campbell went down, perhaps he wouldn't be great, but he could be adequate, as well he could also bring trade value down the road.

We have no idea what Palmer has because Gibbs is scared to death to give the kid any playing time in the pre season, he saw the field once! Can someone please explain why you can't get your rookie QB at least 2 series a game in the pre-season? Gibbs acts as if the world will come to an end if a rookie QB gets some much needed experience in the pre-season, that little peek in the pre-season could provide valuable info on needs come next draft, and whether or not Palmer has real potential, or just a successful big brother.
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:44 PM   #63
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

Palmer was a project pick anyway and no real threat to even make the team. I think the hope was he would show enough to be worth sticking on the practice squad and he proved to not even be worth that.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:13 PM   #64
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

I would just like to know one thing. Since Collins, has replaced the "prayer mongering" Brunell, does that mean Joe2 and Collins are attending Choir practice together now?
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:24 PM   #65
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

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I would just like to know one thing. Since Collins, has replaced the "prayer mongering" Brunell, does that mean Joe2 and Collins are attending Choir practice together now?
What does religion have to do w/ this? :confused:
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:28 PM   #66
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

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Palmer was a project pick anyway and no real threat to even make the team. I think the hope was he would show enough to be worth sticking on the practice squad and he proved to not even be worth that.
Unfortunately I believe your right.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:44 PM   #67
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

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What does religion have to do w/ this? :confused:
Apparently, you are not up to speed on the usual BS as to why Brunell was still the starter last season? To answer your question, religion has nothing to do with any of it. Many people here did not seem to understand that.
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Old 09-06-2007, 07:51 PM   #68
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

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Originally Posted by offiss View Post
We should have addressed it in the draft a long time ago, as the great evaluator Bobby Beathard used to do, if Gibbs had the fore sight we could have been developing a backup for the last 2 years who would be ready to step in if Campbell went down, perhaps he wouldn't be great, but he could be adequate, as well he could also bring trade value down the road..
What an incredibly inane statement. For the last two years WE HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING CAMPBELL. In case you forgot, we drafted him in 2005. Although I haven't looked back, I'm betting you were one who blasted the pick b/c it meant that Gibbs was gonna let your boy Patrick go.

As for drafting developmental QB's - since 2000 we have drafted the following QB's:

2000 - Todd Husak (6th Round)
2001 - Sage Rosenfels (4th Round)
2002 - Patrick Ramsey (1st Round)
2003 - Gibram Hamdan (7th Round)
2005 - Jason Campbell (1st Round)
2007 - Jordan Palmer (6th Round)

The Skins consistently pick up young QB's in hopes one will develop. Throw in Casey Bramlett and that's a lot of young developmental QB's. The fact that they did not pan is not entirely Gibbs fault. The QB position is almost impossible to hit on. Take a look at this: NFL Draft History: Full Draft - by Position

In the year 2000, six QB's were chosen before Tom Brady including such notables as Giovanni Carmazzi, Chris Redman and Tee Martin.

Take a look at the classes of:
2001 (Michael Vick's year) - 11 QB's chosen, one current starter (two including Vick - who would be a starter but for, well you know...)
2002 (Ramsey, Harrington, Carr): 15 QB's chosen - one starter (David Garrard).
2003: (Carson Palmer): 13 QB's chosen - two starters (R. Grossman) and some second tier guys (Leftwich, Boller, Simms)
2004 (Manning, Rivers, Rothlesberger): 17 QB's chosen, 4 starters (M. Schaub - starting for a team that DIDNT DRAFT HIM).

Of the 56 QB's choosen between 2001-2004, how many of the non-starters are even in the NFL? My rough estimate based on name recognition is about 10 with most of those from the more recent drafts. How many of the non-starters are actually back-ups for the teams that originally drafted them?? The only ones that I saw were Feeley and Chris Simms. There may be a couple more.

From 2002 to present we have had six developmental QB's (including Bramlett and Hamdan). Of which one is the current starter - which looks to me to be pretty much in line with the NFL ratio.

To say that we "should have addressed it in the draft a long time ago" ignores reality and is simply wrong.

BTW: Here are Beathard's QB's (78-89) with the Skins -
1981 - Tom Flick, 4th Round
1982 - Bob Holly, 11th Round
1983 - Babe Laufenberg, 6th Round
1984 - Jay Schroeder, 3rd Round
1986 - Mark Rypien, 4th Round
1988 - Stan Humphries, 6th round

Three starters, a career backup and two no-names. Pretty good odds and clearly way above the norm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offiss View Post
We have no idea what Palmer has because Gibbs is scared to death to give the kid any playing time in the pre season, he saw the field once! Can someone please explain why you can't get your rookie QB at least 2 series a game in the pre-season? Gibbs acts as if the world will come to an end if a rookie QB gets some much needed experience in the pre-season, that little peek in the pre-season could provide valuable info on needs come next draft, and whether or not Palmer has real potential, or just a successful big brother.
Did you watch the last half of the 4th preseason game?? Did you need to see more? He had a friggin month to prepare, it was his big chance and he f'ing stunk up the joint. AND it was pretty clear that his perfomance wasn't out of character for him - show me one report !ONE REPORT! that indicated he was solid practice squad material based on his training camp perfomance. EVERYTHING I read seemed to indicate that his performance in the preseason game was pretty much on par with his play in practice. What? we should take time/reps from QB's who may actually be required to play for us so that the guy who hasn't done anything to show differently can confirm his scrubbiness??

You only need to smell sh** to know what it is. You don't need to touch it and taste it too. I guess I'll go with the coach who won three superbowls with three different QB's when it comes to the analysis of an individual QB's potential.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:05 PM   #69
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

collins couldnt win a game for us if we played michigan.....
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:09 PM   #70
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

i think we could possibly sitting on one of the worst QB situations in the league and most of it is because we keep hanging on to this bum collins.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:31 PM   #71
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

From just a back up consideration and off the top of my head - I would take our back-ups over any of the following teams:

Cleveland
Oakland
Miami
Baltimore
Jacksonville
Seattle
Kansas City
Tampa
Atlanta
Minnesota
Detroit
New York Giants

While that still is in the bottom half, I don't know all the back-ups throughout the league and would bet their are a couplle more teams I could add to this list.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:37 PM   #72
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

So tell me, if you could switch our back-ups with any teams who would they be?
Not the specific QB's but the TEAMS and back-ups ONLY!
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:09 PM   #73
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
From just a back up consideration and off the top of my head - I would take our back-ups over any of the following teams:

Cleveland
Oakland
Miami
Baltimore
Jacksonville
Seattle
Kansas City
Tampa
Atlanta
Minnesota
Detroit
New York Giants

While that still is in the bottom half, I don't know all the back-ups throughout the league and would bet their are a couplle more teams I could add to this list.
I'll add Indy to that list. Unless there's something about Jim Sorgi we're just not seeing
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:15 PM   #74
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

In my opinion, I don't like it, but what do I know. I still think MB is a better option AFTER JC.
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:21 PM   #75
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Re: RI: Collins is the no. 2

I think much more important is to have depth on the O-Line. With 5 linemen versus just 1 QB on the field at any time, you're 5 times more likely to see a starting lineman go down. We need to make sure we have depth on the line to protect Campbell and not worry about Collins or Brunell.

And I think we've done a really good job building depth on the line.
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