Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-27-2007, 12:10 PM   #61
Playmaker
 
jdlea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Annapolis, MD
Age: 30
Posts: 3,102
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

The problem for me isn't that the system "won't" work, it's more that it's not. As far as why it isn't, I have a lot of opinions, I won't get into all of them in this post, but I think that much of the struggles in the past years have been a function of the quarterback. I don't know that I blame Gibbs for the offense not stretching the field before because that was certainly part of the gameplan the first time around. It would be a relatively run focused gameplan and then they would stretch the field. That's what I see this team evolving into. I think if Gibbs stays next season, this team could be amazing.

However, I think my main issue with a lot of the playcalling is that there were so many short passes. As I stated previously, I believe that was largely a function of the QB not throwing the ball down the field. Were they calling different plays with Brunell in then they are with Campbell? Possibly, I'm not sure. However, I think that for a run first team to be successful, the threat of the deep ball needs to be there. My main complaint from Sunday wasn't so much that the playcalling, as far as pass - run ratio was wrong, it was more th passes they were calling. I didn't like seeing so many play action passes when the G Men were getting some pretty good pressure on Jason, I'd rather him be able to come away from center looking downfield.

Sunday aside, however, I think that a lot of people look at teams like the Colts, Patriots, and last year's Saints (and this year's Cowboys) and see that a team who is predominately a throwing team, winning games they want that because it's "sexier." I agree with that notion, but most of those teams have good balance. I think that was the problem with Gibbs 2.0 under Brunell, while there was a decent pass - run balance, the pass was never that much of a threat because it wasn't downfield, so it didn't back anyone off. Because of that, the run was less effective. With a qb who can stretch the field when teams put 8 in the box, the gameplan can be successful, it just needs to be well executed.
jdlea is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 09-27-2007, 12:23 PM   #62
Camp Scrub
 
redskins159's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rockton Il.
Posts: 36
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

I think the major problem is that the really successful offenses of the nfl in the last 10 years are teams that can spread the field and exucte quick plays and shay away from the power game. For instance the colts have been masterminds of spreading defenses out and putting up huge numbers. They attack vertically, and can dink and dunk all the way down the field. They rarely use a fullback and most of the runs are in multiple reciever sets. If you even look at Clinton Portis in Denver...he was utilized as a one cut back relying on speed in multiple reciever formations. If you look at the best offenses of the last ten years they all have one thing in common, spreading the field. The Vikings did this with Randy Moss/Chris Carter in the late 90's. The Rams did it with Tory Holt, Issac Bruce and Marshall Faulk at the beginning of 2000. The Colts and Patriots have been doing it for years. Luckily our defense has been good enough to keep us close in many games. But it hasnt been as good as teams like the Ravens or Steelers who can win games on their own.The main problem is that we have not been able to put up enough points to win games. The power run game will keep us close in most cases but usually will not lead to a winning record...just look at our recent win/loss record. I think we have plenty of players that can stretch the field, Moss, Randle El, Cooley, Portis, even Betts. I would like to see more single back sets and more quick hitting run plays because scoring 18 points a game will not lead to many victories.
redskins159 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 12:48 PM   #63
Playmaker
 
GhettoDogAllStars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Denver
Age: 33
Posts: 2,761
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by angryssg View Post
Look at the teams that are winning right now. Indy, Dallas, NE, and GB. They keep putting up points and do not let up until they completely devastate you. They make you shoot yourself in the foot by trying to play catch up against their solid defenses. That is the type of attitude and type of strategy that Gibbs is lacking. Gibbs was great in the 80's but the league is no longer a conservative one.
Indy, NE, and GB all have HoF quarterbacks. Dallas is an exception, but when you have a rookie QB, and are leading by multiple scores, common wisdom is to run clock. Otherwise, you might end up committing turnovers and giving the other team a chance to win. Imagine if we came out passing in the 2nd half, and JC threw a pick for TD. Whoops, now our lead is only 1 TD. What's better -- going 3 and out, or that?
__________________
To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.
GhettoDogAllStars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 01:12 PM   #64
Franchise Player
 
jsarno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 31 Spooner St.
Age: 40
Posts: 9,534
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars View Post
Indy, NE, and GB all have HoF quarterbacks. Dallas is an exception, but when you have a rookie QB, and are leading by multiple scores, common wisdom is to run clock. Otherwise, you might end up committing turnovers and giving the other team a chance to win. Imagine if we came out passing in the 2nd half, and JC threw a pick for TD. Whoops, now our lead is only 1 TD. What's better -- going 3 and out, or that?
Why assume he would throw a pick 6?
I said it once, and I'll say it again, even IF he did (and that's a MONSTER if), then we would chaulk it up to QB inexperience. I'd rather lose that way, then by a bunch of experienced coaches making poor calls.
Take the handcuffs off the offense. Campbell is the best QB we've seen in at least decade, maybe since Joey T.
__________________
Zoltan is ZESTY! - courtesy of joeredskin
jsarno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 02:04 PM   #65
DCborn
Guest
 
DCborn's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Maybe the game has changed alot since...the 80's.
Other teams have adjusted and now and then a team will get caught in a "WEAR THEM DOWN.".. Gibbs style football game....I think first you need true "HOGS" up front, so the run can setup the pass.
So,far the offensive line have been adverage at best with lots of injuries early. One thing is for sure never count a Gibb's coached team out.

Wow..I've just drank the kool aid and lived!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 02:38 PM   #66
Trade Robert for a 4th.
 
Monksdown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Leesburg, VA
Age: 34
Posts: 1,501
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Gibbs football is still about pounding the ground, and pulling offensive linemen. The addition to Gibbs football since the 80's has been the horrendous clock control.

Im sure this has been re-hashed a billion times. But we are successfull running our plays 10.5 quarters out of 12 this year. We move down the field methodically with the occasional deep ball.

If we're playing for close games as Gibbs says Redskins football is, then he needs to take a remedial course in clock management. And to the local sports radio "allstars" that think we need to hire someone to assist in that portion of the game, I say get real. If a coach cant handle the two minute drill, then how can you expect your inexperienced QB to handle it? And furthermore, what are you being paid for?

I don't sleep better at night because Joe is our coach again, I sleep better at night when we win. And he doesnt look like an ass.
__________________
Looking for a pocket passer.
Monksdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 04:04 PM   #67
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 27
Posts: 15,994
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.
In 1986,
There were only 8 players that had 1000 or more rushing yards. 23 in 2006. (that's 15 more)
There were only 10 people that had 1000 or more receiving yards. 19 in 2006. (that's 9 more)
There was only 1 player that had 2000 or more yards from scrimmage. 5 in 2006. (that's 4 more)
There were only 16 that had 2500 or more passing yards. 21 in 2006. (that's 5 more)
There were only 2 that had 4000 or more passing yards. 5 in 2006. (that's 3 more)
There were only 7 that had 80 or more receptions. 18 in 2006. (that's 11 more)
There were only 13 that had 70 or more receptions. 27 in 2006. (that's 14 more)
There were only 28 that had 60 or more receptions. 44 in 2006. (that's 16 more)
There were only 19 players that averaged 6 or more points per game. 37 in 2006. (that's 18 more)

Those numbers speak for themselves. Every era is different, and usually the more we progress the better the players get. We have more prolific players and offenses today.
The mid 80s seem to lie as a dead ball era in history. Defenses totally dominated offenses most of the time. Obviously, thats not true anymore, but the strategies and nuiances are ever so similar (statistically at least, not necessarily anecdoteally).
GTripp0012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 04:05 PM   #68
Living Legend
 
GTripp0012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Evanston, IL
Age: 27
Posts: 15,994
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

To me, Gibbs football is doing whatever works best. It's not running the ball into 9 man fronts. It's not throwing the ball in 3rd and 1 situations more than you run it.
GTripp0012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2007, 09:19 PM   #69
Franchise Player
 
jsarno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 31 Spooner St.
Age: 40
Posts: 9,534
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

I don't think anyone cares if we run the ball 40 times a game, as long as we are effective. Something that didn't happen for the 3rd and 4th quarter. We better change our approach before the Lions game or we'll find ourselves in a hole VERY fast!
__________________
Zoltan is ZESTY! - courtesy of joeredskin
jsarno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 01:49 AM   #70
DCborn
Guest
 
DCborn's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Joe Gibbs is not God or Chuck Norris ...but he is still Redskins Football.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 09:41 AM   #71
Special Teams
 
bertoskins2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 41
Posts: 260
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

winning SB with different QB's signifies that Joe Gibbs football will work

hail to the skins
bertoskins2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 09:44 AM   #72
Impact Rookie
 
Cowell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bluffton, South Carolina
Posts: 803
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoskins2 View Post
winning SB with different QB's signifies that Joe Gibbs football will work

hail to the skins
I don't think Gibbs football will work too much better than it has in the last couple of seasons. The game has changed, this isn't the 80s. Defenses usually consist of much better atheletes than the offenses do. Therefore they are quicker to the gap and harder hitting. We really do need to adjust our gameplan a little bit, we still haven't put up over 20 points this year, and if we can't we do it on the Giants, then that's an issue.
Cowell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 10:21 AM   #73
Pro Bowl
 
skinsguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
Posts: 6,766
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowell View Post
I don't think Gibbs football will work too much better than it has in the last couple of seasons. The game has changed, this isn't the 80s. Defenses usually consist of much better atheletes than the offenses do. Therefore they are quicker to the gap and harder hitting. We really do need to adjust our gameplan a little bit, we still haven't put up over 20 points this year, and if we can't we do it on the Giants, then that's an issue.
Exactly how has the game changed? I keep hearing this, but I haven't seen any evidence of it on the field. The teams are still running and passing the ball and having to kick field goals and score touchdowns to score points.

Are you trying to tell me that the defensive players of today hit harder than someone like Lawrence Taylor or Ronnie Lott did in the 80's? Believe me, if the game has changed that much, it isn't because of the defense, but because of the ticky tack rules that the NFL has placed on defenders nowadays. Go back and watch the last Super Bowl the Redskins were in. They threw Jim Kelly and his receivers around all day. Over half of that stuff would be called for personal fouls penalties in today's game.

It all comes back to execution. Joe Gibbs football works and will always work. You just need the right players and the right team chemistry to make it work.
__________________
"Fire Up That Diesel!"
skinsguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 11:21 AM   #74
The Starter
 
redsk1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,351
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

JG's football is scoring points, being physical, and winning. So far in JG's 2 it hasn't been so much of that. So far...

Today's football you are only go to go as far as your QB takes you. Let's face it we haven't had a talented Qb here for a long time. Don't get me wrong i like JC but i can't be sure he is long time starter material. I thought Ramsey was starter material for a long time. He could make some great throws that would make you think this guy is talented. But he's didn't have the intangibles. QB's makes coaches geniuses, generally. Right now we need JC to keep improving and show us he has intangibles.

Now we could get into personel and who started a below average QB for 2 years...
redsk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2007, 12:09 PM   #75
Camp Scrub
 
skinsnut68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7
Re: Why Doesn't "Gibbs' Football" Work for the Redskins?

I don't think that Gibbs has changed that much, or that the game of football has changed much since 1992. But the Redskins as an organization have changed a lot.

Now, I love Gibbs and think he belongs in the HoF. But he's inherited a very different team now than he did in 1981. Although the 81 Skins had gone through three so-so seasons under Jack Pardee, they were still not far removed from the George Allen era, and many of the players had carried over from the 70s. There was still that sense of team and organizational pride, the rivalries still meant something (remember Theismann hot-dogging in the end zone against the Cowboys at the end of that MNF game that ended 9-5 in 1978? That was under Pardee!)

The Skins that Gibbs got in 2004 were a very different team. A culture of losing has become entrenched with this club. While the players we have today definitely have a strong sense of individual pride, I don't get any feeling of pride in the team or the Redskins organization. Some of that has to do with free agency, a lot with the difference between Jack Kent Cooke and Snyder, but most most with the culture of losing that's been around since Petibon's terrible '93 season.

I'm not sure how much Gibbs will be able to change that. His players now definitely don't respect him ten percent of what they did in 1983 or 1991. I think Snyder's finally getting the clue, though, that one thing this team desperately needs is continuity. Sadly, though, I think the Skins are a lot like the Cardinals now. Pretty much whoever you put in there is gonna lose.
skinsnut68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.32803 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25