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What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

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Old 12-04-2007, 01:57 PM   #31
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

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Originally Posted by sandtrapjack View Post
Best line right there! I love it!
I wish I could claim the idea was originally mine, but I heard it from one of my training officers. Never had the balls to say it until I'd be on a little while.
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:02 PM   #32
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

This is what angers me most about Taylor's death:

SI.com - Writers - Peter King: Redskins remember Taylor; Week 13 breakdown - Monday December 3, 2007 10:31AM
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A sad part of the story, of course, is a child growing up fatherless, for no good reason. But another sad part, and one that will make good people across the NFL cringe, is that Samuels, a gentlemen among gentleman, will be applying for a permit to own a gun this week.

"I was always scared of guns growing up,'' Samuels said. "But this situation has told me I need one. I'd rather be prepared than to be like Sean was, and not have a gun in his house when he really needed it. I'm going to go through all the proper procedures, get a license, get training for it, and have it in my house, where I lay my head at night.

"I wish a lot of people thought like I did, that violence is bad. But unfortunately that's not the way the world is. Sometimes the world is not a nice place. It's sad I have to get a gun.''

And that's yet another tragedy of Sean Taylor's death.
And while I am neither a member of the NRA nor an anti-gun activist, it saddens me when I read things like this. It's a damn shame that a man cannot feel safe in his own home, that he feels he MUST go out and get protection beyond what is normally necessary.
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:14 PM   #33
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

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Not expecting the courts to raise children. However I do expect and must insist that they hold people accountable for thier actions.

Thier job is to protect the public, plain and simple. Something went awry in this instance and Taylor paid the ultimate price.

Where did you hear that the defendants have not showm a history of assault? I have not heard that. That not withstanding, burgalry, theft and gun charges...hmmmm I can put 2 and 2 together and tell you that these are people who pose a clear and present danger to the public's safety. Hence get them off the street before they kill someone.

Too late.

So what do they tell Taylors family and little girl....

"OOPS" is about all they could muster.

How many times in our society have we witnessed this same string of circumstances? Person convicted of gun charges in January, is arrested for murder with a firearm in June. How many? Check CNN.COM and yo uwill see a story like this almost every day.

A registered sex offender/rapist is arrested and charged with kidnapping a little girl, raping and killing her.

It just happens too often in our society. And I am not talking about isolated instances/offenses. Hundreds of MULTIPLE OFFENDERS are let go with probation, or, poor management in the system.

And that is the reason I read that some of the posters here keep a gun in thier night stand. And why Taylor kept a weapon in his bedroom. Because there are a**hole predators out there put back in society by our courts, when thier criminal heistory clearly dictates that they be incarcerated.

I cannot accept "jail/prison over crowding" as an excuse, or, going to war is taking away funds to build new prisons. Capital offenses are at the state level and part of the state judicial systems and not the federal gov't. I cannot accept these excuses becasue this problem has been going on for generations and nothing has been done about it. They just say "overcrowding" and take that as an acceptable excuse. It's not.

China maybe an oppresive gov't, but when it comes to crime, especially violent crime, they are quick and decisive. Commit a violent crime in China, you are part of the weekly executions. Two bullets in the back of the head. And the expense of the bullets is charges to the condemned's family. Harsh and cold....yes. But that country has the largest population in the world, but has the LOWEST crime rate.
You know jack, I had a really long response to this, but just couldn't bring myself to post it. Unless you've worked in criminal justice, you will never understand it.

I will address a couple of points you raised though. (bolded)

Rivera is the only juvenile and the only one who had a prior weapons possession charge. All the other defendant's had prior theft and drug related charges. None of them have been charged with assault as far as I know. I supposed I could run their NCIC backgrounds while I'm sitting here, but I don't think the FBI would appreciate that very much right now.

As far the courts releasing defendants who you feel should be locked away, you do realized that judges are bound by sentencing guidelines right? Who makes up those guidelines? Politicians. It's not the judges sitting on the bench. Politcians like to stay in office, so that means they don't like raising taxes, which means they don't want to ask for money to build all the prisons it would take for us to put away all the people you feel should be locked up. Hence, that's why sentencing guidelines are becoming more and more relaxed. It's all about "rehab" and "alternatives to incarceration" now. They cost less to operate and that makes the public happy.

As to your assertions on prison overcrowding. I'm sitting here in an overcrowded detention facility right now. It's not an excuse. It's a reality. We have a rated capacity of 671 inmates and we're currently housing over 900. We need a jail desperately, but the public doesn't want to pay for it. If you have any suggestions on how to eleviate our overcrowding problem and make society as a whole understand the importance of funding our inmate population, then I'm all ears.
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:21 PM   #34
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

From a grand scheme standpoint, it angers me that we live in a society that continues to glorify violence and outlandish behavior. I'm not saying that hip hop records or violent movies and video games directly led to this murder, but its this perverted glorification which seems to make it almost alright for young black men to shoot up other young black men. There needs to be a MUCH greater sense of outrage over the carnage that occurs in our cities EVERYDAY. There must be zero tolerance, yet you constantly hear about the "no snitching" code of conduct, which in my mind, condones the violence.

From another standpoint, I feel terrible for little Jackie, having to grow up without her father. It broke my heart to see such a vibrant little girl at the funeral yesterday.

From a selfish standpoint, I hate that we won't get to see Taylor and Landry form the greatest safety tandem in the NFL. They were well on their way. Just imagine how scary they would have been in 2-3 years. We're left to imagine possibilities that will never happen now.
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Old 12-04-2007, 02:25 PM   #35
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

I am saddened by losing someone who was a hard working, descent caring human being. It would be greedy to say I misss him because our Redskins will suffer, but what happened here is so much larger than football - a father and great person was lost forever.

As far as anger, I wish that those reponsible would just come out and admit what they did instead of trying to play the "I didn't know the other guy had the gun" or "I didn't know we were going to shot someone". Reports from the Washington Post have stated that lawyers for the suspects are already making the case that some of the clients did not know that others were armed and had the intention of possibly shooting someone. Why can't people ever jusy come out and take reponsiblity for their actions instead of fabricating excuses?

Here is an excerpt from the Post article:
Hunte's attorney, Michael F. Hornung, described his client as "very distraught." He said Hunte was lured into driving the others to Taylor's house without any idea of where they were going or that Taylor's house was the target.
"He's very upset. He's scared," Hornung said. "As far as his involvement, it's de minimus."
Wilbur Smith, the attorney for Rivera, declined to confirm reports that his client was the gunman, saying only that "he's in disbelief over what occurred. His expression to me is: 'I can't believe this kind of thing happened, and that I'm in this, and that man is dead.' "
washingtonpost.com
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Old 12-04-2007, 03:57 PM   #36
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

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Originally Posted by Lady Brave View Post
You know jack, I had a really long response to this, but just couldn't bring myself to post it. Unless you've worked in criminal justice, you will never understand it.

I will address a couple of points you raised though. (bolded)

Rivera is the only juvenile and the only one who had a prior weapons possession charge. All the other defendant's had prior theft and drug related charges. None of them have been charged with assault as far as I know. I supposed I could run their NCIC backgrounds while I'm sitting here, but I don't think the FBI would appreciate that very much right now.

As far the courts releasing defendants who you feel should be locked away, you do realized that judges are bound by sentencing guidelines right? Who makes up those guidelines? Politicians. It's not the judges sitting on the bench. Politcians like to stay in office, so that means they don't like raising taxes, which means they don't want to ask for money to build all the prisons it would take for us to put away all the people you feel should be locked up. Hence, that's why sentencing guidelines are becoming more and more relaxed. It's all about "rehab" and "alternatives to incarceration" now. They cost less to operate and that makes the public happy.

As to your assertions on prison overcrowding. I'm sitting here in an overcrowded detention facility right now. It's not an excuse. It's a reality. We have a rated capacity of 671 inmates and we're currently housing over 900. We need a jail desperately, but the public doesn't want to pay for it. If you have any suggestions on how to eleviate our overcrowding problem and make society as a whole understand the importance of funding our inmate population, then I'm all ears.
Then I shall partially yield to your experience. I knew all that you stated already, but it does not mean it is right, or just.

You say it is not an excuse it is a reality. You are absolutlely, 100%, no arguement from me CORRECT. But does that mean we have to accept it? Does it mean we say "there's nothing we can do, so accept it."?

Yes judges have guidelines, and yes those guidelines are established by poiliticians. Politicians that are elected to office. So I guess that means it is our fault. We have taken it from the home, taken it from the justice system and come full circle right back into the publics lap. Since we elected the officials who are making these guidelines, right?

Which is my answer to your statement about suggestions. My answer is I am doing all that I can and it starts in my home. I teach my children the difference between right and wrong. When they were young my wife and I made a point that when they walked through the door from school, a friends house, or anywhere, one of us was always home. My wife put her career on hold for 16 years so we could do just that. It was important to us, and them. The other thing that I do....vote. I vote for those officials who are tough on crime. I vote for those officials whose platform is crime reduction.

But you have justified my first post in this thread. You said that Rivera had a previous gun charge? Well it is being reported by CNN that Rivera is the alledged shooter. So we have a man with a previous weapons charge, back on the street and the first thing he did was get a gun and go shoot someone. I don't care if people think it was intentional or not. If he did not intend to use a gun then why did he put bullets in it? Or even take it along? Answer is he had it just in case he DID need to shoot someone. He had made up his mind that if he felt he needed to he was going to shoot someone.
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Old 12-04-2007, 06:59 PM   #37
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

I understand your sentiments sandtrapjack. I cannot tell you how upset I get when I read articles on CNN about a sex offender who, while out on parole, kidnapped and killed a young child. Moreover, in Wisconsin for example, two-thirds of all felons who are released from prison are likely to be charged with another felony at some point in their lives. So, I understand why many members of the public want to increase the minimum and maximum sentences, do away with parole, and amend the sentencing guidelines.

However, as others like Lady Brave have so eloquently noted, there are a whole host of problems with making sweeping changes to the justice system to eliminate the problem of recidivist criminal activity. From a practical standpoint, prisons are already overcrowded and prisons cost a LOT of money to build and maintain. If you want to lengthen sentences, be prepared to support increasing taxes. From an ethical standpoint, it's complicated. I've worked in a Federal prison (Oxford FCI) and I've gotten to know a lot of criminals. Not all of them are the dangerous monsters that you think they are; many have been caught in VERY unfortunate situations, hung out with the wrong people, had no supervision or guidance growing up, screwed up, and lived to regret it.

Should we punish all convicted criminals by lengthening their sentences because some of them will re-offend? That's not a rhetorical question; it's a question that doesn't have a satisfactory answer. By lengthening sentences because some may re-offend aren't you handing out punishments that are in excess of what is fair for what they were convicted of? Isn't that judging and punishing every criminal for things that they haven't done? Moreover, if criminals are bound to re-offend, lengthening sentences does not stop crime from taking place, it just delays it (unless you intend to impose life sentences on all criminals).

I don't know what the right answer is. It's an interesting question that doesn't have any simple answers.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:16 PM   #38
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

What angers me the most..Is how someone took someones dad away...Thats what angers me the most about this..How could anyone be so heartless.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:01 AM   #39
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Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death

Aside for the human tragedy which is most important, what angers me as a football fan between the white lines is that we are robbed of seeing this guy turn into a once in a lifetime football player.

ST was special as a football player and unique in what he could do. How many decades are we going to have to wait to see another like him...if ever...and if that comes along, what are the oods he will be a Skin?

ST we will miss you
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