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Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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Old 12-06-2007, 01:47 PM   #61
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I think only person here has even made any mention of the fact that the defense gave up a 30 yard pass right down the middle to set up the game-winning field goal by the Bills. Where's the outcry over that? Where's the outcry over half the offensive line false starting at a critical 4th and 1 (I think that's what it was) in the red zone on the first drive? Things like that, when they are on this site, are usually buried in threads.
Between the injury to Springs and the defensive line not getting any kind of pressure, Edwards had all day to throw last Sunday...the secondary gave up more than one big pass play.

The Bills were 5-13 on 3rd downs. Looking at the drive log, the Skins gave up 9 on 3rd and 4, 16 on 3rd and 6 (same drive, ended in a punt), 29 on a 3rd and 7, 9 on 3rd and 5, and 54 on a 3rd and 6. Last 3 were all in the 2nd half, and all set up FGs by Buffalo.

However, at the time, there was only one starter out on the field (Landry) and the rest were 2nd and even 3rd string backups. Any QB worth their weight in Fruit Roll-ups are going to find open receivers in a patch-work secondary. Edwards did just that as the momentum swung in the Bills' favor during the 2nd half.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:51 PM   #62
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

I'm tending to agree about Moss. A fine #2 reciever, but not sure he's a #1.

I keep also hearing that the players should take some of the heat too. They should. However, Gibbs brings the players in. Example #1. Yes, we blamed Brunell for about everything, as well deserved. However, I place major blame on Gibbs for bringing him in. He had about 0 in the tank at that point. I can't remember any nfl guru's thinking that was a good move. Point being, if you are going to blame the players part of that lies on JG's too.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:52 PM   #63
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN View Post
And what did we do the year before 05? Was he not our HC? He runs the whole team, doesn't he? Joe gets bashed when the offense falters but doesn't get credit when his defense wins. Credit goes to the HC as much as the DC and OC.
Well he has nothing to do with the defense. He is not involved and he has said so himself. Even in his 1st go around he left it to Ritchie.

Here is something else I noticed. I could be nitpicking but oh well. The other night I saw Bill B. on the sidelines talking to the offensive and defensive players. I saw a piece on NFL Network and they had a mic on the NE sidelines. Bill B. is talking strategy with the players, telling them instructions, in other words he is very involved even though he is not the defensive or offensive play caller. When Brady comes to the sidelines during a TO he is communicating with Josh McDaniels but Bill B. is right there in the huddle talking with his QB and OC. He is involved even though he does not call the plays.

Does Gibbs EVER do any of this? No. He is not involved at all when it comes to in game stategy. Sorry but if my offense was having all these problems in the red zone, and I was constantly blowing 2nd half leads, and I was an expert in the area of NFL offense, and my season was on the line, you could bet your ass I would be involved. I would be talking with all of my players getting feed back. But I only see JC talking with Bill Lazor. Gibbs is never talking with any of the players. He's just on the head phones with Saunders. Since when does Bill Lazor know more than Gibbs? Why isn't Saunders on the sidelines?

This is the stuff I'm talking about. I would send Lazor upstairs and have Al on the sidelines. Tough shit if he doesn't like it. Make some damn adjustments to try and score more points instead of staying put. Get your ass involved in the game instead of sitting there with your arms folded and trusting the assistants to do everything.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:59 PM   #64
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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I'm tending to agree about Moss. A fine #2 reciever, but not sure he's a #1.

I keep also hearing that the players should take some of the heat too. They should. However, Gibbs brings the players in. Example #1. Yes, we blamed Brunell for about everything, as well deserved. However, I place major blame on Gibbs for bringing him in. He had about 0 in the tank at that point. I can't remember any nfl guru's thinking that was a good move. Point being, if you are going to blame the players part of that lies on JG's too.
On top of that he gave up a draft pick for the guy when he didn't have to. That alone is a move that gets people fired.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:01 PM   #65
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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Originally Posted by BDBohnzie View Post
Between the injury to Springs and the defensive line not getting any kind of pressure, Edwards had all day to throw last Sunday...the secondary gave up more than one big pass play.

The Bills were 5-13 on 3rd downs. Looking at the drive log, the Skins gave up 9 on 3rd and 4, 16 on 3rd and 6 (same drive, ended in a punt), 29 on a 3rd and 7, 9 on 3rd and 5, and 54 on a 3rd and 6. Last 3 were all in the 2nd half, and all set up FGs by Buffalo.

However, at the time, there was only one starter out on the field (Landry) and the rest were 2nd and even 3rd string backups. Any QB worth their weight in Fruit Roll-ups are going to find open receivers in a patch-work secondary. Edwards did just that as the momentum swung in the Bills' favor during the 2nd half.
That 30 yard pass play was pathetic. But you know what? The defense gave up 15 points. That should be good enough to win a home game against Buffalo.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:18 PM   #66
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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Well he has nothing to do with the defense. He is not involved and he has said so himself. Even in his 1st go around he left it to Ritchie.

Here is something else I noticed. I could be nitpicking but oh well. The other night I saw Bill B. on the sidelines talking to the offensive and defensive players. I saw a piece on NFL Network and they had a mic on the NE sidelines. Bill B. is talking strategy with the players, telling them instructions, in other words he is very involved even though he is not the defensive or offensive play caller. When Brady comes to the sidelines during a TO he is communicating with Josh McDaniels but Bill B. is right there in the huddle talking with his QB and OC. He is involved even though he does not call the plays.

Does Gibbs EVER do any of this? No. He is not involved at all when it comes to in game stategy. Sorry but if my offense was having all these problems in the red zone, and I was constantly blowing 2nd half leads, and I was an expert in the area of NFL offense, and my season was on the line, you could bet your ass I would be involved. I would be talking with all of my players getting feed back. But I only see JC talking with Bill Lazor. Gibbs is never talking with any of the players. He's just on the head phones with Saunders. Since when does Bill Lazor know more than Gibbs? Why isn't Saunders on the sidelines?

This is the stuff I'm talking about. I would send Lazor upstairs and have Al on the sidelines. Tough shit if he doesn't like it. Make some damn adjustments to try and score more points instead of staying put. Get our ass involved in the game instead of sitting there with your arms folded and trusting the assistants to do everything.
That's quite an assumption to make to say that he's not involved in strategy, and just sits there doing nothing. True he does not call plays, but that's pretty extreme to just assume he stands around doing nothing.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:21 PM   #67
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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That 30 yard pass play was pathetic. But you know what? The defense gave up 15 points. That should be good enough to win a home game against Buffalo.
And it would have been if the offensive line didn't break down protection inside their own 5 and give up a safety...
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:45 PM   #68
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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Well see, you illustrate my point right there. Does Saunders calls the plays or does he not? As soon as we see a running play, everyone instinctively says "Oh well that's Gibbs handcuffing the team again." But is he even calling the plays there?

I think only person here has even made any mention of the fact that the defense gave up a 30 yard pass right down the middle to set up the game-winning field goal by the Bills. Where's the outcry over that? Where's the outcry over half the offensive line false starting at a critical 4th and 1 (I think that's what it was) in the red zone on the first drive? Things like that, when they are on this site, are usually buried in threads.

Look I'm not saying absolve Gibbs of any blame. I'm just echoing 70Chip's well-founded sentiments that more needs to go the players way. You win as a team, you lose as a team.
It's been well established that Saunders calls the plays, but it's been equally established that Gibbs sets the game plan and the tone for the plays he wants.. If Gibbs says 'Let's take some time off the clock' that means Saunders has to call runs and short passes to adhere to his wishes.. Even if he's not calling the plays his fingerprints are all over it..

I think it's time for Gibbs to go.. His record speaks for itself, he's under .500 and we're heading in the wrong direction.. ANY other coach would either be gone by now or there wouldn't be one single rational person on here saying 'give him more time.' Here are the ugly facts:
Below .500 record
5 losses with a 2nd half lead this year-15 overall since '04,
Currently on a 4 game losing streak
Every year a losing streak of more than 3 games
One (ONE!) winning streak of more than 2 games since '04
One playoff appearance
One winning record since '04
Team is older and more snug to the salary cap (although we always work that out) than it was when he took over..

How can anyone convince me that it's working out for the betterment of the franchise and/or there is any reason to expect/anticipate/believe that next year will be any better under the current regime..

For Campbell's continuity sake I hope we keep Saunders, but the rest of the staff, Grilliams included, can be shown the door as far as I am concerned.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:49 PM   #69
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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That 30 yard pass play was pathetic. But you know what? The defense gave up 15 points. That should be good enough to win a home game against Buffalo.
No doubt. Enough said right there. The D was not the problem.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:49 PM   #70
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

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That's quite an assumption to make to say that he's not involved in strategy, and just sits there doing nothing. True he does not call plays, but that's pretty extreme to just assume he stands around doing nothing.
pay close attention tonight and see if gibbs is talking strategy with any of the players. watch when jc come over to the sidelines. see who he's talking to. it's always lazor.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:49 PM   #71
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

I think that Portis is so worried about fumbling that he is hesitant to do some of the things he used to do that made him an elite back. Hopefully he watched film and took notes on how Willis McGahee played against the Patriots. Down Hill running
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:31 PM   #72
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

I could be wrong, but...

JG is not an idiot. He's seen what's been going on here the last decade or so and he's familiar with the owner. Id be willing to bet that Snyder has an arrangement with Gibbs that he won't be fired for performance. That would be a pr nightmare on both sides, and if you detach yourself from the situation, would it even make sense for snyder to let him walk at this point? Starting over with a new coach and a new system doesn't sound like a great season, and we've won alot more football with joe than without him...
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:43 PM   #73
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

If it was anyone else but Joe Gibbs, that coach would be gone at seasons end.

26-34 is not a great record. It is a 43% winning percentage. In his first season back we knew thier would be growing pains. The play clock got shorter since he retired, and it showed that he was not familiar with that.

He still likes big power backs that will eat up clock. Nothing wrong with that, but the rules changed while he was gone and the vertical game is really encouraged because of the rules. He is predictable, especially insode the 20.

Then we figured after 2 or 3 years, we would have the "Old Gibbs" back in form and punishing opposing teams and winning championships.

But as evidence from the Buffalo game, he has proven that he still has not caught up to the NFL since he retired. He did not know about the 10 men on defense as a tribute to Taylor. His defense did, his defensive coordinator did. Problem was no one communicated it to the head coach. He does not have control of his team.

He is a head coach in the NFL! It was an EMBARASSMENT to the team when he called that second consecutive timeout, hell even I knew that rule. That move only further questions his grasp of the game. This is the type of call he should have been re-adjusted to since returning.

But he left football before free agency, before the salary cap. Draft picks were traded and millions of salary cap dollars were spent providing him with what he said he needed for a winner. High price talent, and very little youth.

Now the team could be facing serious cap issues, and not enough draft picks for the future. If he does leave, his replacement may have very little to work with.

I think Gibbs needs to leave before his legacy is tarnished more than it already is.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:54 PM   #74
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

Personally I don't think it was a big deal that Gibbs didn't know about the 10 men salute to Taylor. According to what I've read it was something that wasn't finalized until the night before the game. GW pretty much has full autonomy over the defense, so if he felt it wasn't critical to communicate this to Gibbs... who the F cares?

But I guess if you want to pile on...
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Old 12-06-2007, 04:07 PM   #75
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Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

Honestly I think Gibbs should retire to keep some dignity. I know there are plenty of people who never want to see Gibbs leave and if anyone brings anti-Gibbs propaganda near them they put a wall up and don't listen but the bottom line is he just doesen't cut it. I know what he has done for this franchise but what has he done recently? Would you guys like him to stay here and just keep watching this team lose just because what he did 20 years ago?
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