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Collins & Saunders

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View Poll Results: Your confidence level in Todd Collins?
Very confident... the Bears game was not a fluke 40 26.85%
On the fence, he could go either way 94 63.09%
Not confident at all... the Bears game was a fluke 15 10.07%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-10-2007, 08:21 AM   #16
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Re: Collins & Saunders

Vermeil seems to agree that holding back on JC has been the right call:

Lost in the debate over whether the offense is Gibbs's or Saunders's is the singular goal of developing Campbell into a consistent winner. And if that is a franchise's stated objective, there is no way Saunders's entire arsenal was ever going to be unveiled this season or last.

"It was too much for Campbell or any young quarterback," Vermeil said. "The volume is so great. Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders did the right thing -- restrict the package to fit his maturity. They aren't running the entire offense right now. Watch. At the start of next season, Jason will be much better than he is now because he'll get more reps in this offense."

Time in this offense is the only remedy, which Collins's has seven years' worth of learning and practicing.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:14 AM   #17
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Re: Collins & Saunders

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Originally Posted by GMScud View Post
SO, what if Collins continues to play amazingly, we win out, make the playoffs, and then Jason is healthy to play the first playoff game? What then?
Campbell is our QB is healthy. Any other decision is a major mistake in my judgement. He is the long term answer and enough of learning on the sidelines. Maybe Collins knows the offense very well but something tells me that if they'd run the offense the same way with Campbell by now he'd be pretty proficient at it.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:47 AM   #18
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Re: Collins & Saunders

I think it depends on how Collins plays. If he continues to play the way he did against the Bears and assuming we win out, I think you have to stick with Collins the remainder of the year even if JC is ready to come back.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:40 AM   #19
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Re: Collins & Saunders

I agree. If we win out and Collins is at the helm, I think you have to stick with him. Also, it seems like the players are already confident in his abilities and leadership.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:49 AM   #20
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Re: Collins & Saunders

If Collins lights it up you stick with Collins. JC is still thinking too much instead of it being second nature. Having to think about the play slows you down just enough to mess it up. In the Bears game notice how quick Collins made decisions. I'm sure JC will get that in time.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:55 AM   #21
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Re: Collins & Saunders

It's certainly a wait and see type of deal. I honestly do not see Campbell being 100% once the last week of the season rolls around. If Collins gets hot and wins 3 games in a row and we somehow get the last playoff spot, I think you stick with the hot hand.

Holding back parts of the playbook is by far the best way to handle the situation. He's having a tough enough time executing what they are giving him, why further hinder the situation? I think next year you'll see a much more mature Campbell and Saunders will open the book some more. He'll have one full season plus under his belt, and will be able to apprehend a bit more. There is a reason Collins is able to execute like he can...he and Saunders have been together since '01.
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:11 AM   #22
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Re: Collins & Saunders

As much as I'd love to see Collin's light it up for the rest of the season and into the playoffs, I'll go on record as saying I'd be pretty shocked if it turns out that way.

Common sense says there's a reason he's 37 years old and been a backup his entire NFL career, it would be pretty unusual for him to suddenly turn into Tom Brady.
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:25 AM   #23
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Re: Collins & Saunders

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Originally Posted by mheisig View Post
As much as I'd love to see Collin's light it up for the rest of the season and into the playoffs, I'll go on record as saying I'd be pretty shocked if it turns out that way.

Common sense says there's a reason he's 37 years old and been a backup his entire NFL career, it would be pretty unusual for him to suddenly turn into Tom Brady.
But it's also unusual for a backup to come into a game and play the way he did the other night.

I honestly don't know what to think right now, obviously I'm hoping that last week was not a fluke.

I'm on the fence, but I'm leaning more towards him playing well.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:08 PM   #24
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Re: Collins & Saunders

I posted this in another thread but I'll say it here too. Collins has a noodle arm. An accurate arm, but his passes float. I saw several passes against the Bears that got to their target, but would have been swatted away by better defenses. The Bears can't cover worth a crap right now and they were allowing quite a bit more separation between them and the WRs and Cooley. I'm not counting on that against the Giants, Vikings, or Cowboys.

I'm hopeful that Saunders and Collins can adjust to that. But not holding my breath.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:15 PM   #25
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Re: Collins & Saunders

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But it's also unusual for a backup to come into a game and play the way he did the other night.

I honestly don't know what to think right now, obviously I'm hoping that last week was not a fluke.

I'm on the fence, but I'm leaning more towards him playing well.
Actually I don't think it's that unusual for a backup to come in and finish the rest of the game with a good performance. Maybe not the standard, but I seem to recall it happening enough that it doesn't seem weird any more.

I think I commented about this in the game thread on Thursday, but it seems almost standard that a backup will come in when the start goes out with an injury, the backup will play a great game, but when he comes back next week he gets torn apart. I think it has something to do with the defense preparing for the starter, and the backup is just someone they don't have a lot of film on, haven't practiced and haven't gameplanned for.

This is all purely conjecture as I have no stats with which to back it up. Just something I've seemed to notice.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:17 PM   #26
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Re: Collins & Saunders

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
I posted this in another thread but I'll say it here too. Collins has a noodle arm. An accurate arm, but his passes float. I saw several passes against the Bears that got to their target, but would have been swatted away by better defenses. The Bears can't cover worth a crap right now and they were allowing quite a bit more separation between them and the WRs and Cooley. I'm not counting on that against the Giants, Vikings, or Cowboys.

I'm hopeful that Saunders and Collins can adjust to that. But not holding my breath.
I saw the same thing too. If he's the least bit late on his throws the recievers have to be really open or the ball is getting touched by a db. He does throw a nice touch pass & floats the ball nicely, but against an aggressive D he's gonna have to be quicker since he doesn't have arm strength to overcome delays.

to the coaches credit, they kept in ample protection to give him time & I expect to see that from here out.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:22 PM   #27
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Re: Collins & Saunders

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Originally Posted by freddyg12 View Post
I saw the same thing too. If he's the least bit late on his throws the recievers have to be really open or the ball is getting touched by a db. He does throw a nice touch pass & floats the ball nicely, but against an aggressive D he's gonna have to be quicker since he doesn't have arm strength to overcome delays.

to the coaches credit, they kept in ample protection to give him time & I expect to see that from here out.
Of course that becomes a major problem if Cooley can't get out in pass routes and their DBs can cover our WRs. Antoine Winfield and Terence Newman are certainly the two that should concern us.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:27 PM   #28
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Re: Collins & Saunders

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Originally Posted by mheisig View Post
Actually I don't think it's that unusual for a backup to come in and finish the rest of the game with a good performance. Maybe not the standard, but I seem to recall it happening enough that it doesn't seem weird any more.

I think I commented about this in the game thread on Thursday, but it seems almost standard that a backup will come in when the start goes out with an injury, the backup will play a great game, but when he comes back next week he gets torn apart. I think it has something to do with the defense preparing for the starter, and the backup is just someone they don't have a lot of film on, haven't practiced and haven't gameplanned for.

This is all purely conjecture as I have no stats with which to back it up. Just something I've seemed to notice.
Backup QB Collins gave Redskins great relief performance - The Boston Globe

"Flat-out, what he did is not an easy thing to do, and I can't say enough about that," said St. Pierre, who comes to town today as the Steelers' No. 3 quarterback. "When you're a backup quarterback, you just don't get the reps during the week, so it's up to you to be mentally sharp in the meetings and take it all in visually throughout the week.

"To come in and play great, high-quality football - at a position that in and of itself is extremely hard to play - that is just so difficult to do."
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:49 PM   #29
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Re: Collins & Saunders

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Backup QB Collins gave Redskins great relief performance - The Boston Globe

"Flat-out, what he did is not an easy thing to do, and I can't say enough about that," said St. Pierre, who comes to town today as the Steelers' No. 3 quarterback. "When you're a backup quarterback, you just don't get the reps during the week, so it's up to you to be mentally sharp in the meetings and take it all in visually throughout the week.

"To come in and play great, high-quality football - at a position that in and of itself is extremely hard to play - that is just so difficult to do."
Good article. Maybe my brain is still reeling from all the Mark Bulger/Tom Brady/Ben Roethlisberger/Trent Green stories, who knows.
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:23 PM   #30
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Re: Collins & Saunders

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If Collins lights it up you stick with Collins. JC is still thinking too much instead of it being second nature. Having to think about the play slows you down just enough to mess it up. In the Bears game notice how quick Collins made decisions. I'm sure JC will get that in time.
Totally!
JC IS OUR FUTURE..............but he definately pressing to hard, rather than letting it happen. As is evident, he is making horrific mistakes at the worst possible times.
JC has MUCH on his shoulders. Maybe to much right now. He may be very relieved to get out of that for the moment. He may also have an oppurtunity to learn by watching.
AND........a little bench time may help (without the ego issues as he was injured). It worked for Theisman. You never know

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