Collins & Saunders

Mattyk · 12-09-2007, 10:32 PM

A really interesting article by Wise from the WP. He's making the case that this is Al Saunders' chance to show Gibbs and the Redskins what his offense is truly capable of now that he has "his guy" in there at QB in Collins.

Also, Dick Vermeil seems to be a pretty big supporter of Collins. I hope he's not just blowing smoke.

Link: washingtonpost.com

SmootSmack · 12-09-2007, 10:41 PM

I think back to last year when Saunders wanted to replace Brunell with Collins, but Gibbs overruled him and said it was Campbell's time. Part of me can't help but think that one reason for Saunders' support of Collins is ego (apologies to Matty), that he wants to show the entire league that his offense can work even with some "career back-up" running it.

There's no question Collins knows the offense, and there's no question Saunders' offense can and has worked in the NFL. But we'll just have to see how the two play out over the next few weeks.

BleedBurgundy · 12-09-2007, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think back to last year when Saunders wanted to replace Brunell with Collins, but Gibbs overruled him and said it was Campbell's time. Part of me can't help but think that one reason for Saunders' support of Collins is ego (apologies to Matty), that he wants to show the entire league that his offense can work even with some "career back-up" running it.

There's no question Collins knows the offense, and there's no question Saunders' offense can and has worked in the NFL. But we'll just have to see how the two play out over the next few weeks.

Didn't he already prove that with Trent Green? I mean, other than in Saunders' system, has Green ever looked like a NFL starter, week in and week out? Eh, to me, this season was already over so any late run or, gasp, playoff push would be a complete bonus.

GMScud · 12-09-2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

A really interesting article by Wise from the WP. He's making the case that this is Al Saunders' chance to show Gibbs and the Redskins what his offense is truly capable of now that he has "his guy" in there at QB in Collins.

I'm gonna ask this again b/c it's relevant to this thread. I think it's a very important question and I may start a thread on it.

SO, what if Collins continues to play amazingly, we win out, make the playoffs, and then Jason is healthy to play the first playoff game? What then?

Link: washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

Very interesting article. It'll be interesting to see how Collins plays with a full week of practice under his belt with the first team offense. I'm still really concerned about the Giants pass rush.

I don't think Vermeil is blowing smoke. I asked this in the other thread and I'll ask it again, what if Collins continues to play amazingly, we win out, make the playoffs, and then Jason is healthy to play the first playoff game? What then?

BleedBurgundy · 12-09-2007, 10:51 PM

I'm actually a little pissed that Al's been holding back on the play calling because JC was in there. If he's the guy, then he's the guy. Call the best gameplan to win, not whatever percentage of your "genius" playbook that you think he can handle. That really irritates me.

GMScud · 12-09-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'm actually a little pissed that Al's been holding back on the play calling because JC was in there. If he's the guy, then he's the guy. Call the best gameplan to win, not whatever percentage of your "genius" playbook that you think he can handle. That really irritates me.

I agree with you. So what if it's a 700 page playbook? Cambpell's one and only job is to learn it. I know it's a lot, but if he had a year to memorize it, that's still less than two plays a day. Call the plays to win the game.

MTRedskinsFan · 12-09-2007, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think back to last year when Saunders wanted to replace Brunell with Collins, but Gibbs overruled him and said it was Campbell's time. Part of me can't help but think that one reason for Saunders' support of Collins is ego (apologies to Matty), that he wants to show the entire league that his offense can work even with some "career back-up" running it.

There's no question Collins knows the offense, and there's no question Saunders' offense can and has worked in the NFL. But we'll just have to see how the two play out over the next few weeks.

I hadn't even thought back to last year but it's a really good point. I wonder if playing TC over JC so that our future QB could see how the offense is supposed to work would have benefitted Campbell and the offense in general. I know experience is almost priceless but watching something done the way it's supposed to be done could be just as valuable IMO.

If guys are healthy enough to practice the Saunders offense in its fullness and they practice hard we could see things open up even more than against Chicago. I also think now w/ TC in there Gibbs needs to COMPLETELY hand things over to Saunders - there's absolutely no excuse for a rush-heavy, run-out-the-clock, conservative offense any longer.

Honestly, I haven't felt much enthusiasm for our offense all season but now I'm getting excited for next Sunday. Pretty thrilled that it's a nationally televised game!

SmootSmack · 12-09-2007, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Didn't he already prove that with Trent Green? I mean, other than in Saunders' system, has Green ever looked like a NFL starter, week in and week out? Eh, to me, this season was already over so any late run or, gasp, playoff push would be a complete bonus.

What about when Trent Green when he was with the Redskins? But I see your point

skinsguy · 12-09-2007, 11:19 PM

I have no doubt that Saunders' offense works in the NFL. I just question why he may think (and I don't know this for a fact) that JC couldn't utilize more of the offense himself. Campbell is a smart QB, and very talented. No need to hold back on him.

GMScud · 12-09-2007, 11:31 PM

SO, what if Collins continues to play amazingly, we win out, make the playoffs, and then Jason is healthy to play the first playoff game? What then?

GTripp0012 · 12-09-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMScud

SO, what if Collins continues to play amazingly, we win out, make the playoffs, and then Jason is healthy to play the first playoff game? What then?

It depends on how healthy.

If he's close to 100%, you go back to Jason. If he isn't, Collins gets the call.

GMScud · 12-09-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It depends on how healthy.

If he's close to 100%, you go back to Jason. If he isn't, Collins gets the call.

I just made a post on this in the "If we win the next three games thread." I'd love to hear your opinion.

jamf · 12-10-2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'm actually a little pissed that Al's been holding back on the play calling because JC was in there. If he's the guy, then he's the guy. Call the best gameplan to win, not whatever percentage of your "genius" playbook that you think he can handle. That really irritates me.

I agree!

I'm all for a guy getting experience but there is a difference between a young player learning to play at gamespeed and a guy who just can't run all the plays.

If JC can't run all the plays, He shouldn't be in there.
I don't understand how this organization can begin a season running a limited playbook.

SmootSmack · 12-10-2007, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME

Gibbs has final say who QB's, unfortunately it also seems his QB's haven't come close to showing their capable of understanding Saunders offense. I don't think it's Saunders who is looking to hold back on the other QB's to get his own guy in there because of his ego as was stated in an earlier post, [pretty hard to imagine that] but it's more to do with the ability in a QB's mind to be able to apply his system, which apparently Collins is the only guy at least right now who has a clue.

To many guys have been bashing our receivers this season, well, have they been holding back as well waiting for Collins to step in? Kind of ironic that the second Collins takes over we have WR's open all over the field, that is no coincidence, Collins knows how to find an open receiver, hopefully consistently.

If you're referring to my post, I think you misunderstood me.

Mattyk · 12-10-2007, 07:21 AM

Vermeil seems to agree that holding back on JC has been the right call:

Lost in the debate over whether the offense is Gibbs's or Saunders's is the singular goal of developing Campbell into a consistent winner. And if that is a franchise's stated objective, there is no way Saunders's entire arsenal was ever going to be unveiled this season or last.

"It was too much for Campbell or any young quarterback," Vermeil said. "The volume is so great. Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders did the right thing -- restrict the package to fit his maturity. They aren't running the entire offense right now. Watch. At the start of next season, Jason will be much better than he is now because he'll get more reps in this offense."

Time in this offense is the only remedy, which Collins's has seven years' worth of learning and practicing.

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12-09-2007, 10:32 PM	#1
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 73,193	Collins & Saunders A really interesting article by Wise from the WP. He's making the case that this is Al Saunders' chance to show Gibbs and the Redskins what his offense is truly capable of now that he has "his guy" in there at QB in Collins. Also, Dick Vermeil seems to be a pretty big supporter of Collins. I hope he's not just blowing smoke. Link: washingtonpost.com __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

12-09-2007, 10:41 PM	#2
SmootSmack The Bluths Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 43,220	Re: Collins & Saunders I think back to last year when Saunders wanted to replace Brunell with Collins, but Gibbs overruled him and said it was Campbell's time. Part of me can't help but think that one reason for Saunders' support of Collins is ego (apologies to Matty), that he wants to show the entire league that his offense can work even with some "career back-up" running it. There's no question Collins knows the offense, and there's no question Saunders' offense can and has worked in the NFL. But we'll just have to see how the two play out over the next few weeks. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

12-09-2007, 10:51 PM	#5
BleedBurgundy Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,434	Re: Collins & Saunders I'm actually a little pissed that Al's been holding back on the play calling because JC was in there. If he's the guy, then he's the guy. Call the best gameplan to win, not whatever percentage of your "genius" playbook that you think he can handle. That really irritates me. __________________ "All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." Thomas Paine

12-09-2007, 11:19 PM	#9
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,014	Re: Collins & Saunders I have no doubt that Saunders' offense works in the NFL. I just question why he may think (and I don't know this for a fact) that JC couldn't utilize more of the offense himself. Campbell is a smart QB, and very talented. No need to hold back on him. __________________ Not the same Skinsguy that posts on ES.

12-09-2007, 11:31 PM	#10
GMScud Swearinger Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Washington, DC Age: 34 Posts: 12,623	Re: Collins & Saunders SO, what if Collins continues to play amazingly, we win out, make the playoffs, and then Jason is healthy to play the first playoff game? What then? __________________ Insert witty signature here

12-10-2007, 07:21 AM	#15
Mattyk ‎\m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 40 Posts: 73,193	Re: Collins & Saunders Vermeil seems to agree that holding back on JC has been the right call: Lost in the debate over whether the offense is Gibbs's or Saunders's is the singular goal of developing Campbell into a consistent winner. And if that is a franchise's stated objective, there is no way Saunders's entire arsenal was ever going to be unveiled this season or last. "It was too much for Campbell or any young quarterback," Vermeil said. "The volume is so great. Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders did the right thing -- restrict the package to fit his maturity. They aren't running the entire offense right now. Watch. At the start of next season, Jason will be much better than he is now because he'll get more reps in this offense." Time in this offense is the only remedy, which Collins's has seven years' worth of learning and practicing. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

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