Warpath  

Home | Forums | Salary Cap Info | Shop | Donate | Stay Connected




Go Back   Warpath > Redskins Forums > Redskins Locker Room


The case against Cowher

Redskins Locker Room


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2008, 12:28 AM   #1
Playmaker
 
BrudLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE
Posts: 3,494
The case against Cowher

Here's my take on Cowher.

He is a really good coach. He had some dominant defensive talent early in his career (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Rod Woodson) and got the most out of them. He stuck with an underperforming QB (Kordell Stewart) for too long, to the eventual detriment of his team. During much of his career, the Steelers were in the worst conference in football (The Bengals were horrible until 2003, the Browns had two winning seasons in his tenure, and the Ravens were schizophrenically great or rotten). There was a stretch in his tenure (1998-2000) where he never finished above 3rd in his division (and people were openly calling for his head), which was righted after realignment (which gave him the Browns, Bengals, and Ravens twice a year).

What part of that screams "We gotta get this guy!"

His demand for total personnel control? Do the names Tommy Maddox or Kordell Stewart give you pause when thinking about ceding complete control?

Is stability the real answer? Because, I think I could prove that the Rooney family doesn't know how to fire people. They haven't fired a head coach since 1968. That guy (Mike Austin) won eleven games in three years, and may have deserved it.

Do we feel like he's the guy who can light a fire in the players' collective belly? Here's the major additions to the Steelers this year: coach Mike Tomlin, and punter Daniel Sepulveda. Who's more responsible for the extra three wins they got this year? My guess is the coach.

The popular notion is that we can throw enough money at Cowher to make him consider this. Perhaps the real question is, do we really want a leader who won't be bothered to get off his couch for less than $10 million?

It should be noted that if Coach Cowher is hired, I'll erase this thread and anyone who dares quote it. I'm a moderator, and I'm crazy in the head.
__________________
There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.
BrudLee is offline   Reply With Quote

Advertisements
Old 01-09-2008, 12:33 AM   #2
MVP
 
mooby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NoVa
Age: 26
Posts: 12,110
Re: The case against Cowher

I gotta agree, it took the man 15 years to win a Super Bowl with one team. Why are people so enamored with him? Great, he won a Superbowl. Great, he sticks to the run game, and everyone always thinks we are a run first team. But sticking to the run isn't necessessarily a good thing, most Super Bowl winners have a balanced attack nowadays.
mooby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 12:35 AM   #3
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,972
Re: The case against Cowher

Good thread. Good points.

Let me ask you this, do you think his personnel decisions were hindered by a limited checkbook in Pittsburgh?
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 12:44 AM   #4
Playmaker
 
BrudLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE
Posts: 3,494
Re: The case against Cowher

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Good thread. Good points.

Let me ask you this, do you think his personnel decisions were hindered by a limited checkbook in Pittsburgh?
To some extent - frankly, most teams don't have the advantage the Skins do (with the ability to pay so much in bonuses).

There's a wonderful website ( http://www.steelersalarycap.com/ ) that shows approximately where the team was from 1994 (the first year of the cap) through the present. From 1994 through 2004, they created a statistic called SALVOA, or SALary Value Over Average. The Steelers were below the league average only twice, and never by more than 5%. Does that mean he let valuable players leave the team because he couldn't afford them anymore? And if so, how does that speak to his ability to "buy the groceries"?
__________________
There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.
BrudLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 12:44 AM   #5
Special Teams
 
Ocliw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC
Age: 47
Posts: 253
Re: The case against Cowher

Where did the Cowher idea come from anyway?

I've been working a lot.Maybe I missed something.
Ocliw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 12:51 AM   #6
Uncle Phil
 
SmootSmack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 44,972
Re: The case against Cowher

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrudLee View Post
To some extent - frankly, most teams don't have the advantage the Skins do (with the ability to pay so much in bonuses).

There's a wonderful website ( http://www.steelersalarycap.com/ ) that shows approximately where the team was from 1994 (the first year of the cap) through the present. From 1994 through 2004, they created a statistic called SALVOA, or SALary Value Over Average. The Steelers were below the league average only twice, and never by more than 5%. Does that mean he let valuable players leave the team because he couldn't afford them anymore? And if so, how does that speak to his ability to "buy the groceries"?
Does SALVOA factor in all players or just the Samoans (see what I did there)?

Anyhow, good information there. For the record, while I could think of worse options Cowher isn't my first choice to take over. My fear, as I told you elsewhere Brud is that if we don't get Cowher this year we'll just try again next year unless we really make a full commitment to someone. Such as Gregg Williams.
__________________
You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You
SmootSmack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 12:56 AM   #7
Playmaker
 
BrudLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE
Posts: 3,494
Re: The case against Cowher

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Does SALVOA factor in all players or just the Samoans (see what I did there)?

Anyhow, good information there. For the record, while I could think of worse options Cowher isn't my first choice to take over. My fear, as I told you elsewhere Brud is that if we don't get Cowher this year we'll just try again next year unless we really make a full commitment to someone. Such as Gregg Williams.
How did I not see a Big Joe reference coming? I'm getting too old for this sh---(EXPLOSION!)

The Cowher fans seem to want stability by the comments I've heard around the Intarweb, and in a quest for stability, they would risk completely overturning the coaching staff and much of the roster. That's called "irony", despite what Miss Morrisette may have told you.
__________________
There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.
BrudLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 01:15 AM   #8
Special Teams
 
Redskins247's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 282
Re: The case against Cowher

These are great points, and one's that I agree with as well. But the fact of the matter is, we as fans (especially here) I think do far more research into the thought process of hiring someone like Cowher, when all that Danny does is think...."I want Bill Cowher"....and then Danny goes and gets Bill Cowher....whatever it takes.
Redskins247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 03:11 AM   #9
Camp Scrub
 
lowblowlandry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2
Re: The case against Cowher

I agree. I really don't want to see Cowher in D.C. and I think the players (especially our defense) would resent him for taking the job they believed should have gone to Greg Williams. Also, we were just starting to get some positive media attention for the first time in years as a team that emphasizes family first, a place where prospective free agents might want to come for a little less maybe. Let's not screw that up and go back to making splashy moves from outside of the organization, like we used to.

But not to worry, I totally believe Snyder is smarter that a lot of fans give him credit for and he will make the right move by giving the job to G. Williams. You don't become a self made multi-millionaire/billionaire with just dumb luck.
lowblowlandry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 03:21 AM   #10
Eternally Legendary
 
saden1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Age: 35
Posts: 10,058
Re: The case against Cowher

How about "I'm not ready to go through rebuilding years?" It takes two years for most new coach to be successful which means most of our players will be senior citizens eligible for Medicare and their prime years would be wasted.

Snyder would be stupid not to try and keep both GW and Saunders.
__________________
"The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder."

-Jenkins
saden1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:51 AM   #11
^21^
 
Luxorreb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Age: 42
Posts: 1,612
Re: The case against Cowher

and I always have to see Cowher cry on that damn NFL Network commercial. No to Cowher and Yes to Williams.
__________________
GO SKINS!!! ^21^
Luxorreb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 07:59 AM   #12
Playmaker
 
irish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,732
Re: The case against Cowher

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrudLee View Post
Here's my take on Cowher.

He is a really good coach. He had some dominant defensive talent early in his career (Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, Rod Woodson) and got the most out of them. He stuck with an underperforming QB (Kordell Stewart) for too long, to the eventual detriment of his team. During much of his career, the Steelers were in the worst conference in football (The Bengals were horrible until 2003, the Browns had two winning seasons in his tenure, and the Ravens were schizophrenically great or rotten). There was a stretch in his tenure (1998-2000) where he never finished above 3rd in his division (and people were openly calling for his head), which was righted after realignment (which gave him the Browns, Bengals, and Ravens twice a year).

What part of that screams "We gotta get this guy!"

His demand for total personnel control? Do the names Tommy Maddox or Kordell Stewart give you pause when thinking about ceding complete control?

Is stability the real answer? Because, I think I could prove that the Rooney family doesn't know how to fire people. They haven't fired a head coach since 1968. That guy (Mike Austin) won eleven games in three years, and may have deserved it.

Do we feel like he's the guy who can light a fire in the players' collective belly? Here's the major additions to the Steelers this year: coach Mike Tomlin, and punter Daniel Sepulveda. Who's more responsible for the extra three wins they got this year? My guess is the coach.

The popular notion is that we can throw enough money at Cowher to make him consider this. Perhaps the real question is, do we really want a leader who won't be bothered to get off his couch for less than $10 million?

It should be noted that if Coach Cowher is hired, I'll erase this thread and anyone who dares quote it. I'm a moderator, and I'm crazy in the head.
I'm not a Cowher fan but he didnt draft Kordell.
irish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 08:28 AM   #13
‎\m/
 
Mattyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Age: 42
Posts: 83,520
Re: The case against Cowher

The main issue I see with Cowher is control. We all know that didn't fly very well when Marty wanted total control, so I don't see how Snyder would be willing to give that up again. Especially since he's already said he wants to keep the personnel acquisition process the same.
__________________
Support The Warpath! | Warpath Shop
Mattyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 09:40 AM   #14
Playmaker
 
freddyg12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,540
Re: The case against Cowher

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowblowlandry View Post
I agree. I really don't want to see Cowher in D.C. and I think the players (especially our defense) would resent him for taking the job they believed should have gone to Greg Williams. Also, we were just starting to get some positive media attention for the first time in years as a team that emphasizes family first, a place where prospective free agents might want to come for a little less maybe. Let's not screw that up and go back to making splashy moves from outside of the organization, like we used to.

But not to worry, I totally believe Snyder is smarter that a lot of fans give him credit for and he will make the right move by giving the job to G. Williams. You don't become a self made multi-millionaire/billionaire with just dumb luck.
Welcome on your first post & nice name, Lowblow. I totally agree w/your first paragraph & I know many here do as well, while I HOPE that your 2nd paragraph is true.

Snyder's brilliant as a biz man, no doubt about that. I didn't realize until I read the wash post article today about him, that his first fortune was made through 'Snyder Communications.' I thought he got into real estate development first. Look at his other investments, Dick Clark productions & Six Flags. The man is in the entertainment business. Where football people & fans might see an obvious need for continuity w/the staff, Synder may fear the team loses its luster w/an ordinary dude like Grilliams. The last line of this article is scary, though its only from a ticket broker. here's the link
washingtonpost.com
freddyg12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 09:49 AM   #15
RG Glee
 
Schneed10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newtown Square, PA
Age: 35
Posts: 8,365
Re: The case against Cowher

The biggest argument against bringing in Cowher is based around the salary cap. Consider this:

1) The Redskins are currently over the cap by $20 million, which is a straw man number of course. They've got the ability to restructure contracts and get about $10-15 million under the cap before free agency and the draft. That should give a new guy like Cowher good flexibility to get a few guys he likes in free agency. But not too many. He can't do what Gibbs did in 2004 and bring in a slew of guys (Griffin, Washington, Portis, Brunell, Daniels, Springs, Moss). In other words, Cowher's going to be forced to work mostly with what he has, which leads me to my next point...

2) Cowher has traditionally fielded a very large and physical offensive line. Our current group is not exceptionally large (more middle of the road, even on the smaller side). We're an athletic line, a la Al Saunders, as opposed to huge mashers. If Cowher wants to change out the offensive line, he can't. We can't gain any cap relief from the Jon Jansen contract until 2010. We can't gain cap relief from the Randy Thomas contract until 2011. And we can't gain cap relief from the Samuels contract until 2009. I personally don't understand why you'd ever want to get rid of those guys, even if you like bigger linemen. But the point remains, Cowher would be stuck with them.

3) Defensively, Cowher runs a 3-4. Given the points I made in number (1) above, Cowher can't just go bringing in the LBs we'd need to run his 3-4. Or maybe he'd play Andre Carter at the rush LB spot? And I'm not sure Griffin or Montgomery are suited to be the anchor you need in the middle of a 3-man line. He probably needs a big NT like Vince Wilfork. But the main point; given that the Redskins need to restructure a bunch of deals this year just to get under the cap and shed that $20 million we're currently over by, this will kick more of the cap hit into the future for those players. In 2009 and 2010, the Skins may find it even tougher to get under the cap, and may be even more restrained in free agency.

In summation, if Cowher wants to change out the personnel to fit his traditional style of play, it's going to take 3 or 4 years to do it. He won't have the flexibility in free agency to change the makeup of the team. He can't shed some of the big contracts for another few years. He'll have to do it through the draft. Or, instead of trying to change the team to fit his system, he could try to change his system to fit his team. But it seems like Gregg Williams would be better suited for that, after all, he and Saunders already have the system that fits the team best.

The Redskins do not have the cap flexibility to change the team every four years. Snyder has made a financial committment to a number of vets through the restructuring of contracts. He's showing a tendency towards keeping players together for the long haul; but if he brings in a new coach who tries to fit those round players into square holes, it will be a disaster. There's only one choice for the team given the salary cap picture: Gregg Williams.
Schneed10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site is not officially affiliated with the Washington Redskins or the NFL.
Page generated in 0.52324 seconds with 9 queries

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25