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Do you trust Snyder?

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Old 01-11-2008, 03:16 PM   #46
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Originally Posted by lowblowlandry View Post
Wow Defensewins, the NFL game and high school/college (especially when Jerry Jones played college) are soo different. Having played football as a youth gives Jones no advantage over Snyder as a "football man" other than being a more athletic youngster. Is that really an advantage for an owner or General Manager?

I think people who already have their negative opinions of Snyder set in stone are trying to rationalize to themselves why the Redskins can't be successful with him.
It is called experience. You are going to say a guy that played in and was part of a major college program has NO advantage over a guy that never was around any organized football team? Jones saw first hand how a successful major college program is run. He saw this from the inside. You are saying he did not learn anything from this experience?
I have no set in stone opinions of Snyder other than the track record Snyder has created for himself. Before Gibbs arrived Snyder did not do a good job of running the Redskins. Hey if Snyder begins to do a better job of being co-GM with Cerratto, I will be the first person to praise them and wish many more years of continuing success. Until then, all I have to go on is their history.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:21 PM   #47
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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He is the freaking owner of the team and I have never heard of an owner turning over hiring of his head coach to someone else. so Thats crazy to think doing the right thing is letting someone else hire your coach. Yes I'm sure Gibbs will have a hugh role in thid decision but it all comes back to Snyder for the final say.
Here's an example for you: Wayne Huizenga, owner of the Miami Dolphins, has given Bill Parcells the responsibility of hiring the next Dolphins coach. Parcells has been named team president of the Dolphins, and he promptly fired coach Cam Cameron, and he will be hiring the Dolphins next coach. Parcells, I'm sure, will have to inform Wayne H. of his choice before the official announcement is made of Parcells' decision, but the decision on hiring and firing coaches is commonly left to general managers and/or team presidents.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:24 PM   #48
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

I think Snyder's, Gibbs, and Williams conversation went something like this.

Snyder: Gregg, Joe and I think the world of you and what you've done for this organization...myself included. Now, you and I haven't always seen eye to eye on things, but we believe you're our guy. But you know that business is business, and we have to go through the process of looking at all the options on the table...other candidates.

What we're going to do is bring in, per your suggestion, Jimmy later this week and sit down with him and see where he's at with things, you know. You two know each other and everything, so it's not a big deal. I think what Joe and I are gonna do from there is fly down to Arizona and talk to Russ about things.

Gibbs: Now, Gregg I've been up front with you from day one. (Williams nodding) In my heart, I think you're probably the guy that I'm hoping to take this thing over and keep it going in the right direction. To me, Gregg, you're a Redskin, and that's the most important thing, first of all. I was telling Pat just the other day how close I've become to you and your boys and how I think the world of you all--okay... and you know how I personally feel about family and things like that. But like Danny said, we just have to go through this process and kick the tires a little bit just to make sure everybody up there is okay with the way we handled everything. But like I said, I think with everything that has gone on from Sean to Jason and the way you handled the situtation with Carlos and Rocky going down, we feel you're a class act. I don't think anyone could have kept things together over there any better than you did after we loss Sean. Anything you have for us?

Williams: I love you, man.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:30 PM   #49
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Jack Kent Cooke had no ego? You're kidding right? JKC had a huge ego.

Furthermore,

WashingtonPost.com: Gibbs Hired as Redskins Coach After Meeting With Cooke

"Cooke wants to make the Redskin games "fun for the fans" and he wants to see more passing and more progressive thinking on offense. Cooke was very impressed with the Chargers this season, especially because they were entertaining even when they lost."

If Snyder had chimed in like that in this day and age, whether he's right or not, there'd be people with torches ready to burn his house down.
I did not say Mr. Cooke had no ego. I said Mr. Cooke did not have an ego to let him think he had the experience and knowledge to make football decisions like drafting players and getting involved in the day to day personnel decisions that Snyder gets involved in. That is all.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:31 PM   #50
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

SmootSmack:

Of course JKC had an ego. And it got in HIS way too. The short version of why he couldn't manage to leave his team to his son is that he had it figured out how he could evade loads of estate taxes with his monumentally complicated estate plan and it all came crashing down like a house of cards because of two factors. One was that the actual value of the Chrysler Bldg in NYC - which he owned - wasn't worth nearly what he thought it was. Two was that he drained off too high a fraction of his liquid assets in building Jack Kent Cooke Stadium in RalJon Maryland to create a monument to himself. Check the name of the "town" he fictionalized as the home of his stadium to realize how much of a monument to himself all of that was.

JKC was not a meddling owner in the way Danny Boy was/is. So the only things he did that might annoy fans was when he took to the microphone once or twice a year and droned on and on and on in his sing-song voice. Danny Boy keeps a much higher profile than that.

Just one example: Danny Boy scouts college talent and convinces the "football people" to draft that strong armed QB he found named Patrick Ramsey. Danny Boy wants people to think he is part of making the Redskins a winner because he knows about football. JKC didn't do that kind of thing. All JKC did was to spend his money lavishly on the team. To be fair, JKC didn't have to worry about salary caps for most of his tenure as owner and Danny Boy does.

JKC maintained an image of an eccentric old coot whose marriages were sure to provide grist for gossip columns and humor writers. Danny Boy seems to have generated an image of an arrogant young know-it-all who has yet to show that he even knows more than a little bit about putting together a winning football team.

FWIW...
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:32 PM   #51
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Here's an example for you: Wayne Huizenga, owner of the Miami Dolphins, has given Bill Parcells the responsibility of hiring the next Dolphins coach. Parcells has been named team president of the Dolphins, and he promptly fired coach Cam Cameron, and he will be hiring the Dolphins next coach. Parcells, I'm sure, will have to inform Wayne H. of his choice before the official announcement is made of Parcells' decision, but the decision on hiring and firing coaches is commonly left to general managers and/or team presidents.
Nice post.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:35 PM   #52
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Talking Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Originally Posted by 12thMan View Post
I think Snyder's, Gibbs, and Williams conversation went something like this.

Snyder: Gregg, Joe and I think the world of you and what you've done for this organization...myself included. Now, you and I haven't always seen eye to eye on things, but we believe you're our guy. But you know that business is business, and we have to go through the process of looking at all the options on the table...other candidates.

What we're going to do is bring in, per your suggestion, Jimmy later this week and sit down with him and see where he's at with things, you know. You two know each other and everything, so it's not a big deal. I think what Joe and I are gonna do from there is fly down to Arizona and talk to Russ about things.

Gibbs: Now, Gregg I've up front with you from day one. (Williams nodding) In my heart, I think you're probably the guy that I'm hoping take this thing over and keep it going in the right direction. To me, Gregg, you're a Redskin, and that's the most important thing first of all. But like Danny said, we just have to go through this process and kick the tires a little bit just to make sure everybody "up there" is okay with the way we handled everything. But like I said, I think with everything that has gone on from Sean to Jason and the way you handled Carlos and Rocky going down, we feel you're a class act. Anything you have for us?

Williams: I love you, man.

Freakin hilarious
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:41 PM   #53
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon View Post
SmootSmack:

Of course JKC had an ego. And it got in HIS way too. The short version of why he couldn't manage to leave his team to his son is that he had it figured out how he could evade loads of estate taxes with his monumentally complicated estate plan and it all came crashing down like a house of cards because of two factors. One was that the actual value of the Chrysler Bldg in NYC - which he owned - wasn't worth nearly what he thought it was. Two was that he drained off too high a fraction of his liquid assets in building Jack Kent Cooke Stadium in RalJon Maryland to create a monument to himself. Check the name of the "town" he fictionalized as the home of his stadium to realize how much of a monument to himself all of that was.

JKC was not a meddling owner in the way Danny Boy was/is. So the only things he did that might annoy fans was when he took to the microphone once or twice a year and droned on and on and on in his sing-song voice. Danny Boy keeps a much higher profile than that.

Just one example: Danny Boy scouts college talent and convinces the "football people" to draft that strong armed QB he found named Patrick Ramsey. Danny Boy wants people to think he is part of making the Redskins a winner because he knows about football. JKC didn't do that kind of thing. All JKC did was to spend his money lavishly on the team. To be fair, JKC didn't have to worry about salary caps for most of his tenure as owner and Danny Boy does.

JKC maintained an image of an eccentric old coot whose marriages were sure to provide grist for gossip columns and humor writers. Danny Boy seems to have generated an image of an arrogant young know-it-all who has yet to show that he even knows more than a little bit about putting together a winning football team.

FWIW...
Well your disdain of Snyder is well documented both here, and on your own site. Quite honestly, it's hard to expect much of a reasoned argument from you on this when you keep referring to him as Danny Boy. Already you're being dismissive in simply referring to him that way. So I defer to the opinions of others on this topic.

Further, yes Ramsey was a bad move on his part. And he's also suggested, key word: suggested, other players which the Redskins ultimately chose not to draft. Also, he did recommend Rock Cartwright and he hasn't been too bad for a 7th rounder.

Defensewins, my apologies to you. I didn't read what you wrote clearly enough. I always get baffled/annoyed though when people-as they often do, but not in your case her-assume JKC was some sort of humble pious man who never got involved in any of the decision making of the team. All he did was write checks. All that is untrue. Plus, as everyone knows, the salary cap era has radically changed how you can build a roster. To compare the two eras is not fair.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:20 PM   #54
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Well your disdain of Snyder is well documented both here, and on your own site. Quite honestly, it's hard to expect much of a reasoned argument from you on this when you keep referring to him as Danny Boy. Already you're being dismissive in simply referring to him that way. So I defer to the opinions of others on this topic.

Further, yes Ramsey was a bad move on his part. And he's also suggested, key word: suggested, other players which the Redskins ultimately chose not to draft. Also, he did recommend Rock Cartwright and he hasn't been too bad for a 7th rounder.

Defensewins, my apologies to you. I didn't read what you wrote clearly enough. I always get baffled/annoyed though when people-as they often do, but not in your case her-assume JKC was some sort of humble pious man who never got involved in any of the decision making of the team. All he did was write checks. All that is untrue. Plus, as everyone knows, the salary cap era has radically changed how you can build a roster. To compare the two eras is not fair.
And just to add, he really wanted to draft Santana Moss over Rod Gardner, but he ultimately left the decision up to Marty.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:41 PM   #55
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Defensewins, my apologies to you. I didn't read what you wrote clearly enough. I always get baffled/annoyed though when people-as they often do, but not in your case her-assume JKC was some sort of humble pious man who never got involved in any of the decision making of the team. All he did was write checks. All that is untrue. Plus, as everyone knows, the salary cap era has radically changed how you can build a roster. To compare the two eras is not fair.
I appreciate your post. Yeah I am old enough to remember JKC and he was not humble or quiet in any way.
It is rumored that the salary cap was originally created by the other owners because of JKC and the fear of his money. The 1992 Sb team had over $100M in total salary. In 1993 when the salary cap was installed it lead to the Redskins quick downfall in talent and depth.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:41 PM   #56
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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I am reaching a tad bit, but I don't think you can ignore the timing & speed of the last 2 days. Hopefully there have been in house discussions & they've managed to keep them on the serious down low & not leak to anybody. My point is that simply on the surface w/out knowing any more than we do, Snyder's behavior thus far since Gibbs announcement doesn't give the fans much confidence that he indeed has changed.

I guess I agree w/JLC who said that his "vow of silence" hurts his image & leads to speculation about him wanting to hire from the outside. We're all speculating here anyway, but I'll also say that Shneed has good points about all signs so far indicating he'll not hire GW. Whether any of it can be chalked up to impatience or not, I don't know, but it does seem that Snyder is showing early signs of his old ways.

Maybe he's just trying to increase traffic on redskins.com?
Well, he does have a head coach opening and would like to fill it as soon as reasonably possible. I guess I don't see issues with the speed and timing of the last 2 days. What would be a more preferable pace to you? If he took a day off in-between interviews?

The truth is right now we really don't know much other than:

-Schwartz was interviewed.

-Apparently Russ Grimm may be next.

-Williams is definitely part of the conversation and will probably interview at some point.

-Gibbs is involved in the process, to what extent nobody is sure.

-Cowher is still adamant that he's not coming back this year.

-Joe Theismann is not a part of the process to find the next coach.

Everything else is pure speculation and some people are really getting ahead of themselves here. I honestly haven't seen or heard anything yet to indicate that Snyder is "back to his old ways". Has he signed any aging big name free agents to mega deals? Did he start charging for training camp again?

If anything it sounds like to me he is being patient and letting the process play out.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:49 PM   #57
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Well, he does have a head coach opening and would like to fill it as soon as reasonably possible. I guess I don't see issues with the speed and timing of the last 2 days. What would be a more preferable pace to you? If he took a day off in-between interviews?

The truth is right now we really don't know much other than:

-Schwartz was interviewed.

-Apparently Russ Grimm may be next.

-Williams is definitely part of the conversation and will probably interview at some point.

-Gibbs is involved in the process, to what extent nobody is sure.

-Cowher is still adamant that he's not coming back this year.

-Joe Theismann is not a part of the process to find the next coach.

Everything else is pure speculation and some people are really getting ahead of themselves here. I honestly haven't seen or heard anything yet to indicate that Snyder is "back to his old ways". Has he signed any aging big name free agents to mega deals? Did he start charging for training camp again?

If anything it sounds like to me he is being patient and letting the process play out.
Or perhaps, Williams got the job already and is moving forward as we speak and the Danny is off doing the things he has too... hence the silence... just a theory.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:56 PM   #58
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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I appreciate your post. Yeah I am old enough to remember JKC and he was not humble or quiet in any way.
It is rumored that the salary cap was originally created by the other owners because of JKC and the fear of his money. The 1992 Sb team had over $100M in total salary. In 1993 when the salary cap was installed it lead to the Redskins quick downfall in talent and depth.
I've heard the same, and quite honestly I think one reason Gibbs came back is that he sort of felt he jumped ship (which I suppose you could argue he did) just as the Redskins were about to hit hard by age and the salary cap and wanted to come back to correct that and leave, as best as he could, a legacy beyond him. (I love run-on sentences!).

He certainly left the team in better shape than when he left the team in 1993.
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:03 PM   #59
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
I appreciate your post. Yeah I am old enough to remember JKC and he was not humble or quiet in any way.
It is rumored that the salary cap was originally created by the other owners because of JKC and the fear of his money. The 1992 Sb team had over $100M in total salary. In 1993 when the salary cap was installed it lead to the Redskins quick downfall in talent and depth.
I think the $100 million figure is a bit high. Maybe like $45 million is closer. And the 49ers were always in the same range in those days, so it wasn't only Cooke they feared.
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:48 PM   #60
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Re: Do you trust Snyder?

[QUOTE=firstdown;406111]So what now hiring a head coach is a popolarity contest. If you polled my employees if they would like friday's off they would vote 100% yes. If I don't give them Friday off are they going to quite or revolt? NO. He is still the owner and they are the employees and if they did revolt then maybe they are not of the carater as we thought of them after the season. If Gibbs did not want GW to replace him will you still feel the same way?[/QUOTE]

Of course not, you misunderstood my point. I'm simply stating that in the essence of continuity, it would make sense to hire Williams as the H.C. given that he already has the apparent majority of support of the current roster. This obviously would not be a scenario of the inmates running the asylum as you suggest. While Williams may, or may not be, the answer to the 'Skins leadership role, he has been an asset to the organization and derserves at least a shot at it. I'm just hoping that Snyder makes a level headed selection and sets aside any temptation to hire someone simply to make a splash. This team needs to continue down the path of stability. Finally, it is irrelevant whether or not Gibbs wanted Williams as a replacement. Due to his performance (minus one season), and his loyalty, he deserves a look. Do any of those traits matter to you as an employer??
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