What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?

celts32 · 02-11-2008, 03:18 PM

I like Simms but he's in the same stage of his career as JC and I think it would be counterproductive for both of them to be here competing for the same job. The last thing we need to give JC is a new offense and a QB controversy.

No way to Plummer regardless.

irish · 02-11-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Our QB depth last year probably saved the season. So I wouldn't say we never have quality depth there.

Its never depth that the Skins develop. Thank God for TC last year because if Campbell had finished the year I doubt the Skins would have had 6 wins.

GTripp0012 · 02-11-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Why do the Skins never have talent they developed at key back-up positions like QB. Instead if Collins leaves they have to scrape around the bottom of the barrel for one of the most important positions on the team.

Not sure I'd describe QB as a "key-backup position". I mean, yeah if your starter gets hurt, you need a guy who can throw the ball and hold the fort down from a few weeks. But outside of injury, the backup is never going to play for a team that has it's franchise QB.

Developing a backup is not something all teams (or most) are lucky enough to do, because it's a relatively low cost, low success proposition. Teams like Jacksonville and Atlanta have been successful, but there are many more teams who have tried just as hard and failed.

Veteran backups are the surest thing.

ecupirate08 · 02-11-2008, 03:20 PM

Billy Volek has been consistaint and put up huge numbers at times when hes had the chance... No team has ever really given him a fair shake. He could be a sure number 2 in case something happens to JC.

Mattyk · 02-11-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Its never depth that the Skins develop. Thank God for TC last year because if Campbell had finished the year I doubt the Skins would have had 6 wins.

Depth is depth. What does it matter if it's a free agent or a drafted player?

skinsfan69 · 02-11-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

KFFL - 2008 NFL Free Agents

Grossman
Culpepper
Josh McCown
Quinn Gray
Ken Dorsey
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Cleo Lemon
Jared Lorenzen
Jamie Martin

umm...disgusting. I'd see if Brunell would play one more season at league minimum. Unless Culpepper would play for beans as opposed to retire?

Of course, there are some competant names on this list:

Billy Volek
Craig Nall

Some of these guys have played well and won games in the NFL. I thought Lemon played pretty well considering the circumstances. He throws a nice ball and I remember him playing pretty well against NE. Grey started a few games while Garrard was out won some games for them. McCown can play if needed. I'm not sure about Culpepper anymore. But some of these guys are not as bad as Dilfer or Gus.

GTripp0012 · 02-11-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Its never depth that the Skins develop. Thank God for TC last year because if Campbell had finished the year I doubt the Skins would have had 6 wins.

Campbell won 6 games as a starter, so even if the Skins had not made an improvement on defense (which has nothing to do with the QB), or offense (which is due to the QB), and lost their final three, then Campbell still won 6 games as a starter.

Schneed10 · 02-11-2008, 03:22 PM

I think it's a foregone conclusion that Collins will follow Saunders to St. Louis. He followed him from KC to Washington, I don't know why he wouldn't do it again. Saunders is his best chance for success.

Zorn was brought here with the mindset of developing Campbell. There's no questioning the organization's committment to him.

irish · 02-11-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Depth is depth. What does it matter if it's a free agent or a drafted player?

Because now the Skins are in a postition if TC leaves that they are basicaly stuck having to troll the bottom for someone that might be able to play.

irish · 02-11-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Not sure I'd describe QB as a "key-backup position". I mean, yeah if your starter gets hurt, you need a guy who can throw the ball and hold the fort down from a few weeks. But outside of injury, the backup is never going to play for a team that has it's franchise QB.

Developing a backup is not something all teams (or most) are lucky enough to do, because it's a relatively low cost, low success proposition. Teams like Jacksonville and Atlanta have been successful, but there are many more teams who have tried just as hard and failed.

Veteran backups are the surest thing.

Its important. If the Skins hadnt had a quality back-up last season I dont think they would have been in the playoffs.

Mattyk · 02-11-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Because now the Skins are in a postition if TC leaves that they are basicaly stuck having to troll the bottom for someone that might be able to play.

Turnover is part of the game.

OverseasSkinsfan · 02-11-2008, 03:26 PM

I see Collins going to STL and my bet is Trent Dilfer will be the QB who comes in back up JC. TD is an UFA and a former pupil of Zorn. Most Wash Post articles on Jim Zorn's hiring contained one or two positive quotes from Trent Dilfer about what a great coach and leader Jim Z is, so Dilfer in Burgandy and Gold is a good bet. Not bad to have someone familiar with the WCO and who's a Super Bowl winning QB as your backup. He's also not a guy who will be itching to be the starter, but will be willing to serve as a mentor for JC. Strong man of faith too who would be a positive locker room influence!

GTripp0012 · 02-11-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Some of these guys have played well and won games in the NFL. I thought Lemon played pretty well considering the circumstances. He throws a nice ball and I remember him playing pretty well against NE. Grey started a few games while Garrard was out won some games for them. McCown can play if needed. I'm not sure about Culpepper anymore. But some of these guys are not as bad as Dilfer or Gus.

I think the key is to settle on a guy who has had a mild degree of success wherever he goes. Rattay, or Brunell (who we pretty much have to treat as an FA at this point) qualify, as well as Nall or Volek.

Culpepper, if he could play as well here as he did in Oakland this past year, we would have a quality backup. I'm not sure Dante's ego could take a role in this league where he isn't going to compete to be the starter. I think he'd rather retire.

McCown played poorly this year, and Lemon was "meh". He wasn't total crap, but he's definately not part of the solution if your team's starter gets hurt. Quinn Gray was pretty bad behind Garrard. Cost them the New Orleans game.

But I agree that Dilfer, nor Frerotte would help any.

GTripp0012 · 02-11-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

Its important. If the Skins hadnt had a quality back-up last season I dont think they would have been in the playoffs.

That's true. If Hollenbach had been the no. 2, we likely would have missed the playoffs.

With that said, what's stopping us from signing the next Todd Collins?

talk show host · 02-11-2008, 03:29 PM

+1 about collins, Overseaskinsfan. He is too old to learn new tricks and I don't seem him anywhere other than where Al Saunders is. As far as Dilfer, I wouldnt mind him as a backup/mentor so much but I also would like to keep Brunell as a backup. He is a really humble guy and a good teacher - I see him as a QB coach some day. I don't see Zorn having more than one veteran QB on the roster though. So if we get Dilfer, then we can say bye bye to Markie-mark.

02-11-2008, 03:18 PM	#31
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 41 Posts: 2,643	Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins? I like Simms but he's in the same stage of his career as JC and I think it would be counterproductive for both of them to be here competing for the same job. The last thing we need to give JC is a new offense and a QB controversy. No way to Plummer regardless. __________________ Section 115 Row 23 “Goal line, goal line. I-left, tight wing, 70 chip on white.” http://victorybeer.com/

02-11-2008, 03:20 PM	#34
ecupirate08 Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 25	Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins? Billy Volek has been consistaint and put up huge numbers at times when hes had the chance... No team has ever really given him a fair shake. He could be a sure number 2 in case something happens to JC.

02-11-2008, 03:22 PM	#38
Schneed10 RG Glee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 33 Posts: 7,892	Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins? I think it's a foregone conclusion that Collins will follow Saunders to St. Louis. He followed him from KC to Washington, I don't know why he wouldn't do it again. Saunders is his best chance for success. Zorn was brought here with the mindset of developing Campbell. There's no questioning the organization's committment to him. __________________ Skins' Salary Cap Status \| CrazyCanuck's Cap Figures by Player \| Salary Cap 101

02-11-2008, 03:26 PM	#42
OverseasSkinsfan Camp Scrub Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 17	Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins? I see Collins going to STL and my bet is Trent Dilfer will be the QB who comes in back up JC. TD is an UFA and a former pupil of Zorn. Most Wash Post articles on Jim Zorn's hiring contained one or two positive quotes from Trent Dilfer about what a great coach and leader Jim Z is, so Dilfer in Burgandy and Gold is a good bet. Not bad to have someone familiar with the WCO and who's a Super Bowl winning QB as your backup. He's also not a guy who will be itching to be the starter, but will be willing to serve as a mentor for JC. Strong man of faith too who would be a positive locker room influence!

02-11-2008, 03:29 PM	#45
talk show host Camp Scrub Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13	Re: What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins? +1 about collins, Overseaskinsfan. He is too old to learn new tricks and I don't seem him anywhere other than where Al Saunders is. As far as Dilfer, I wouldnt mind him as a backup/mentor so much but I also would like to keep Brunell as a backup. He is a really humble guy and a good teacher - I see him as a QB coach some day. I don't see Zorn having more than one veteran QB on the roster though. So if we get Dilfer, then we can say bye bye to Markie-mark. __________________ "This whole game is about rhythm, not about hanging onto the ball until you see a guy open."

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What does the Zorn hiring mean for Todd Collins?

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