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Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Old 02-12-2008, 11:34 PM   #61
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

My favorite response:

# Whit Says:
February 11th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

Iím really glad that I read this article because now I can save myself the needless pain and suffering of reading another one by you, Tim. Seriously, I wonít even bash your opinion, your pathetic use of words strung hopelessly together as sentences was enough to render the right side of my brain completely useless for the next 30-45 minutes. Iíve got some friends up in the Bay area who could recommend some really top notch sixth grade level writing classes for you, if you donít mind a couple hours of homework each night and the occasional pop quiz.

Of course, what can you really expect from a guy relegated to a blog on the gold standard of American journalism that is The San Jose Mercury News. I heard Websterís is going to name Tim Kawakami as a new synonym for irrelevant in their next edition. I donít want to be mean, but Iíve read Myspace pages with more intellectual insight than this piece. Seriously, Tim, when your readership breaks into double digits, shoot me an email. Iíll send you a box of cookies and a one way ticket out of the zeroth dimension of sports journalism that youíre currently wallowing in.
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:37 PM   #62
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
Well, how about asst head coach then? Or how about a HC at ANY LEVEL?

You don't hire the CEO of a company out of the mailroom. There is a reason people need to build experience...to ignore it is not wise.
I would respectfully disagree but the heck with it. I imply don't think you know what the hell you are talking about. You are speaking in broad generalities in which it seems apparently want to simply ignore facts and forget what you do know and what you don't.

I think anyone who wants to say this is a bad hire because he has never been a HC or OC before in the NFL is making a dumb argument based in no fact or reason. There is simply no eveidence that points to this being a bad hire. It is a completely unknown commodity.
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:49 PM   #63
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

My post awaiting "moderation":

# hooskins Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
February 12th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

Tim,

People have summed it up quite well, but this is just a terrible article. I am a journalist and editor who understands this is an option based blog, but at least get your facts right. I am sure you are happy you are getting quite a bit of hits, so hey whatever gets at your jollies.

Mr. Mully,

Although I admire your defense for Tim here you cannot argue that this blog post was poorly researched. Simple Google searches show many in the NFL felt Zorn is up and coming. Also as pointed out Tim is 100 percent wrong in the fact that Zorn left coaching for a while. You cannot argue versus those points Mully, I am sorry.

As for the racist remarks, I agree they are terrible. But in your anger you yourself ruined your credibility by extrapolating your assumptions of racism to an entire fanbase based on a few comments. If you know basic statistics this is a ridiculous assumptions, because the sample size is clearly not statistically significant. If you want to talk about being fair and credible, you yourself must follow the rules rather than being hypocritical.

So basically Tim made blatant errors, which have nothing to do with this being a blog. Also you have made yourself look quite silly, and irrational. I look forward to any response from either you Mr. Mully or Tim, but I highly doubt either.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:13 AM   #64
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by angryssg View Post
Bill Cowher, Mike Tomlin, and Jack Del Rio were not OC's or DC's before getting their chance at being the HC. They all do have one thing in common though. They were all players first.
Not to pee in your cheerios angry but:
Cowher was defensive coodinator of the chiefs 89-91.
Tomlin was defensive coodinator of the vikes in 06.
Del Rio was defensive coodinator of the panthers 01-02.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:25 AM   #65
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

I would like to comment on this thread but I don't want to jump the gun. Maybe he will work out... I honestly don't care who coaches they can hire Martha Stewart for all I care just as long as we ****ing win!!!!!!

HAIL!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:26 AM   #66
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
I think that Zorn probably would have benefitted from another year of not having to be head coach. I don't know that he's quite ready and this is not an easy team to get your start with. Zorn as an offensive coordinator/QB coach is definitely a great move. As Head Coach? I think it can be very good but how soon and will it be for the Redskins?
I agree he would have benefitted from a year as OC, and I thought the original signing as OC was a good one. Just sceptical about the HC spot.

Quote:
However, here are the problems with your post above. The problems I have at least. The issue I have with Schein's piece is that he lambasts the Redskins for hiring a head coach who has never been a coordinator. Fine, whatever. I don't think it's such a huge deal but that is his opinion. Ok, well then don't follow that with comments about the new Ravens coach saying he applauds the great, out of the box thinking of not hiring a coordinator.
You are absolutely right about the guy saying it was bad for us, but not for Baltimore. That is something I am not defending, just defending his comments about us.

Quote:
I won't go into the whole Williams debate, but I will say that technically Greg Blache replaced Williams. And Blache is not a no one.
Well, I would agree with you here, but I am just not convinced that Blache can run the D like GW. GW was the the REAL DC, not Blache.

Quote:
To get all agitated about who was hired to be an offensive assistant? Reedychulouz. Bill Belichick was, if I recall correctly, an offensive assistant straight out of college (I could be wrong though).
I am not completely agitated over that, but I feel you need experience when your HC has none. Hiring a D3 coach is not wise.

ps- Belichick was hired as a "special assistant" in Baltimore in 75, and served under MANY titles in his career, including: Assistant special teams coach, special teams coach, Wide receivers coach, tight ends coach, defensive assistant, linebackers coach, assistant head coach, defensive backs coach, and of course, DC for 6 years. He was in the NFL from 75-90 before getting a shot at head coaching in Cleveland. The reason he is so successful (minus the cheating) is because he's done it all. (one of the reasons anyway)
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:38 AM   #67
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by FRPLG View Post
I would respectfully disagree but the heck with it. I imply don't think you know what the hell you are talking about. You are speaking in broad generalities in which it seems apparently want to simply ignore facts and forget what you do know and what you don't.

I think anyone who wants to say this is a bad hire because he has never been a HC or OC before in the NFL is making a dumb argument based in no fact or reason. There is simply no eveidence that points to this being a bad hire. It is a completely unknown commodity.
To some extent you are correct, there is no evidence that points to this being a bad hire...why? Cause we are blazing a new path. Everyone that has been mentioned to this point (Reid, Cowher etc) have had more experience than Zorn before taking over. Zorn was never even a HC at ANY level EVER. The only time he was ever on OC was at Utah feakin St.
I was all for letting him be the OC...he earned that spot with what he did with Hasselbeck, but a HC spot he hasn't come close to earning.

I do fail to see where I have been speaking in generalities. If you have been following my posts, I have backed up most of them with facts and stats that most here didn't know.
I'm all for blindly following the skins and what they decide to do, hell I practically invented it this year, but don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about when I have provided coach after coachs history and shown that we really are blazing a new path with Zorn. What we did was unheard of. I have tried to find any coach that has had a similar past and can't find it. (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I have left this question to everyone for days and no one has come up with a single person...Reid came the closest but he was assistant head coach.) Just cause you don't like what I am saying is no reason to call it a dumb argument. And to say I am ignoring facts...well sir, I have supplied fact after fact...unsure what "facts" I ignoring. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else, or you're looking in the mirror while talking, either way, you need to pay more attention to my posts, and not take them so personally cause I am unsure of this hire. I am more than willing to have constuctive banter with anyone about this subject, but no one has supplied any good reason this is a good hire minus what he did with Hasselbeck. Well, I have already admitted he will be good for Campbell...but as an HC?????
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:40 AM   #68
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
I agree he would have benefitted from a year as OC, and I thought the original signing as OC was a good one. Just sceptical about the HC spot.
Understood

Quote:
You are absolutely right about the guy saying it was bad for us, but not for Baltimore. That is something I am not defending, just defending his comments about us.
Ok, and I'm saying his whole piece is indefensible because he's inconsistent

Quote:
Well, I would agree with you here, but I am just not convinced that Blache can run the D like GW. GW was the the REAL DC, not Blache.
Fine, but Blache does have experience at that level. Plus, it has been noted (can probably look it up) that Blache's influence in simplifying the defense went a long way toward the unit rebounding this year off 2006

Quote:
I am not completely agitated over that, but I feel you need experience when your HC has none. Hiring a D3 coach is not wise.

ps- Belichick was hired as a "special assistant" in Baltimore in 75, and served under MANY titles in his career, including: Assistant special teams coach, special teams coach, Wide receivers coach, tight ends coach, defensive assistant, linebackers coach, assistant head coach, defensive backs coach, and of course, DC for 6 years. He was in the NFL from 75-90 before getting a shot at head coaching in Cleveland. The reason he is so successful (minus the cheating) is because he's done it all.
They've got experience through several members of their coaching staff. I don't see why the concern about who the offensive assistant is. He's not being hired to be the offensive coordinator.

Ok, so he was "special assistant" The point was he got his start somewhere and he got it right out of college. As you say, he's done it all but at one point he was a nobody serving as an assistant
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:48 AM   #69
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post



They've got experience through several members of their coaching staff. I don't see why the concern about who the offensive assistant is. He's not being hired to be the offensive coordinator.
Well, we seem to agree on most everything except these two things.
While he's not being hired as OC, what's the point of hiring a guy as a coach if it's a meaningless position? It was a poor choice to hire a D3 coach to help coach an offense when the HC has no experience. They should have gotten someone to be more of a consultant and help where Zorn lacks. Of course we will never speak of this again due to the fact that it's an obscure position.

Quote:
Ok, so he was "special assistant" The point was he got his start somewhere and he got it right out of college. As you say, he's done it all but at one point he was a nobody serving as an assistant
A lot of people got spots out of college. Belichick got a lowly position as a special assistant, so I am unsure of your point. If it's to say that our lovely D3 coach got a job out of college as well...well that I am not arguing. What I am arguing is that Zorn has no experience so hire someone that does to help aid Zorn. That wasn't the case with Belichick...and had we still had Gibbs, I could care less about the chance we are taking on this guy. To be honest, I am more upset about Zorn than I am anything else. The other stuff is just adding insult to injury. If we hire an OC with no experience, then depending on his experience, I am really not going to be happy.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:50 AM   #70
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
To some extent you are correct, there is no evidence that points to this being a bad hire...why? Cause we are blazing a new path. Everyone that has been mentioned to this point (Reid, Cowher etc) have had more experience than Zorn before taking over. Zorn was never even a HC at ANY level EVER. The only time he was ever on OC was at Utah feakin St.
I was all for letting him be the OC...he earned that spot with what he did with Hasselbeck, but a HC spot he hasn't come close to earning.

I do fail to see where I have been speaking in generalities. If you have been following my posts, I have backed up most of them with facts and stats that most here didn't know.
I'm all for blindly following the skins and what they decide to do, hell I practically invented it this year, but don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about when I have provided coach after coachs history and shown that we really are blazing a new path with Zorn. What we did was unheard of. I have tried to find any coach that has had a similar past and can't find it. (doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but I have left this question to everyone for days and no one has come up with a single person...Reid came the closest but he was assistant head coach.) Just cause you don't like what I am saying is no reason to call it a dumb argument. And to say I am ignoring facts...well sir, I have supplied fact after fact...unsure what "facts" I ignoring. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else, or you're looking in the mirror while talking, either way, you need to pay more attention to my posts, and not take them so personally cause I am unsure of this hire. I am more than willing to have constuctive banter with anyone about this subject, but no one has supplied any good reason this is a good hire minus what he did with Hasselbeck. Well, I have already admitted he will be good for Campbell...but as an HC?????
Similar past? Well Andy Reid, but I know you don't accept that because of the title of Assistant Head Coach. Though who really knows what that meant. Could have just been a nominal title.

Mike Tice would be another example.

As is Mike Ditka, I'm almost positive
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:55 AM   #71
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by jsarno View Post
Well, we seem to agree on most everything except these two things.
While he's not being hired as OC, what's the point of hiring a guy as a coach if it's a meaningless position? It was a poor choice to hire a D3 coach to help coach an offense when the HC has no experience. They should have gotten someone to be more of a consultant and help where Zorn lacks. Of course we will never speak of this again due to the fact that it's an obscure position.



A lot of people got spots out of college. Belichick got a lowly position as a special assistant, so I am unsure of your point. If it's to say that our lovely D3 coach got a job out of college as well...well that I am not arguing. What I am arguing is that Zorn has no experience so hire someone that does to help aid Zorn. That wasn't the case with Belichick...and had we still had Gibbs, I could care less about the chance we are taking on this guy. To be honest, I am more upset about Zorn than I am anything else. The other stuff is just adding insult to injury. If we hire an OC with no experience, then depending on his experience, I am really not going to be happy.
Well, what sort of experience are you talking about? Head coaching experience? Ok, you've got Joe Bugel. NFL coaching experience? Bugel, Breaux, Simmons-just to name three. Not counting guys like Hixon, Mitchell, and Sherman Smith here.

Look, I know you're not one of those complain just to complain guys but the fuss over our offensive assistant strikes me as such
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:07 AM   #72
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Originally Posted by SmootSmack View Post
Similar past? Well Andy Reid, but I know you don't accept that because of the title of Assistant Head Coach. Though who really knows what that meant. Could have just been a nominal title.

Mike Tice would be another example.

As is Mike Ditka, I'm almost positive
Ditka was assistant head coach for Landry for 9 years.

You are right (the first person to name someone BTW) about Tice. He was OLine coach for the Vikes before taking over on an interim basis when Green was fired.
Tice would be a good comparison...good job thinking of someone, I couldn't.

BTW, Tice was 32-33 with Minnesota, not good, but not bad.
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:10 AM   #73
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Ditka was assistant head coach for Landry for 9 years.

You are right (the first person to name someone BTW) about Tice. He was OLine coach for the Vikes before taking over on an interim basis when Green was fired.
Tice would be a good comparison...good job thinking of someone, I couldn't.

BTW, Tice was 32-33 with Minnesota, not good, but not bad.
Are you sure he was assistant head coach? I thought he was just an assistant and special teams coach

By the way, it's like the 3rd time I've mentioned Tice
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:14 AM   #74
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Well, what sort of experience are you talking about? Head coaching experience? Ok, you've got Joe Bugel. NFL coaching experience? Bugel, Breaux, Simmons-just to name three. Not counting guys like Hixon, Mitchell, and Sherman Smith here.

Look, I know you're not one of those complain just to complain guys but the fuss over our offensive assistant strikes me as such
You make a good point about the others that have experience. And like I have said, I don't really have the problem with the signing of the offensive assistant position, just really scratching my head as to why hire anyone with no experience at even a d1 school to back up a guy that has never been an HC at ANY level. This is more about Zorn.
I am failing to see the point of that hire though. Like I have said, I am really more concerned about the Zorn hiring (HC, not OC). DO you really think Bugel / Breaux and Company can get Zorn up to speed and make him successful when we barely got to 9 wins with a hall of fame coach, an amazing DC and a once studly OC? I have concerns.
I have obviously made too many comments about our D3 coach hire, I don't mean to take away from my concerns about Zorn by making those comments.
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:18 AM   #75
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Re: Zorn "probably the worst NFL hire of all time"??

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Are you sure he was assistant head coach? I thought he was just an assistant and special teams coach

By the way, it's like the 3rd time I've mentioned Tice
I remember an interview with Ditka talking about his coaching with Landry, and yes he was an Assistant Head Coach by his words. I'm sure he could have over played his position, but he was a vital cog in the wheel that was the dallas cowboys. Back then, the titles weren't as important anyway.

Have you seriously mentioned Tice that many times? My bad man, I don't see how I missed that. That was a good call.
Was there anyone else you mentioned that I missed?
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