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Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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Old 02-25-2008, 01:23 AM   #61
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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Originally Posted by T.O.Killa View Post
Detroit is realy stupid. They draft first every year and suck every year. They gave up Dre Bly for a guy who got benched last year.
Yes they are stupid but not THAT stupid. Bly was a 32 year old corner who is past his prime. Williams is a lot younger and should be coming into the prime of his career. Trust me. It's not gonna happen. Williams is just too good a player to be tossed aside for a 2nd round draft pick. It's going to take a lot more than that, plus he's going to want a new deal. If he's dealt it's going to be a draft pick and a starter.
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:32 AM   #62
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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That's more fantasy thought than anything. Moss would then be the highest paid 3rd WR in the league, and Randle El would be the highest paid 4th WR ever, and Lloyd would be the highest paid 5th or 6th or 7th WR ever. Not gonna happen. We can't afford to drop any of them, so if we do get 1 WR, it will be just that...1 WR.
You are 100% correct. All I was saying is it would be awsome to have two talented tall WR. Lloyd should be gone this yr anyway. He has not produced and I doubt he will with Zorn cause he has burned his bridge I believe. Thrash I used to love but he has simply fallen off the chart. Yes he is good on special teams but he used to be good as a 3rd down specialist. He was awsome in his first stint with the skins. His second stint has been nothing special. If I'm not mistaken McCardell was thinking retirment prior to us signing him plus he has 15 yrs on him. Thrash has 10 yrs on him.

I went to the Redskins web site and was shocked at how many WR we have. I immagine or I hope some would work out for us.
Randel El
Espy
Caldwell
Harris
Moss
Thrash
McCardell
Lloyd
Mix at 6-5 235
McMullen at 6-4 215
Mann at 6-1 190
Toler at 6-2 185

I could see us letting Thrash, Lloyd, McCardell go if the last 4 work out well for us. I also hope Espy comes back with a vengence.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:38 AM   #63
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

Randle El - good
Espy - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
Caldwell - fine as a 3rd or 4th
Harris - bum
Moss - good
Thrash - borderline bum as a WR, special teamer only
McCardell - too old
Lloyd - bum
Mix at 6-5 235 - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
McMullen at 6-4 215 - bum
Mann at 6-1 190 - bum
Toler at 6-2 185 - bum

Too many bums, and only 2 good ones. And the two who are good are small. The long list does nothing for me. We shouldn't care how many guys we have, we should care who we have who's capable of making serious plays.
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:43 AM   #64
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

We can probably put this to bed now. Marinelli has stated that the Lions will not trade Roy Williams. Makes sense, why the hell would they? He and CJ can make for the best 1-2 punch in the league.

Lesson learned by the Warpath, just because a blog says it could happen doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Marinelli: Williams stays
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:23 PM   #65
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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I'm all for keeping our picks...but I'd do that for a second rounder in a heartbeat if we had the chance.
Me too. I'd rather give up a 2nd rounder NEXT year and Brandon Lloyd for RW.

AS for Hall, I think we need to make a move for him somehow. I first rounder at any point is out of the question. Maybe for s 2nd round pick this year, and a later round pick next year, but as of now we need all of our picks.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:27 PM   #66
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
We can probably put this to bed now. Marinelli has stated that the Lions will not trade Roy Williams. Makes sense, why the hell would they? He and CJ can make for the best 1-2 punch in the league.

Lesson learned by the Warpath, just because a blog says it could happen doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Marinelli: Williams stays
That's the typical knee jerk reaction around here. Some bloger writes that Chad Johnson and Roy Williams are on the block and people freak out. Nevermind that their two head coaches said that neither player isn't going anywhere.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:30 PM   #67
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
Randle El - good
Espy - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
Caldwell - fine as a 3rd or 4th
Harris - bum
Moss - good
Thrash - borderline bum as a WR, special teamer only
McCardell - too old
Lloyd - bum
Mix at 6-5 235 - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
McMullen at 6-4 215 - bum
Mann at 6-1 190 - bum
Toler at 6-2 185 - bum

Too many bums, and only 2 good ones. And the two who are good are small. The long list does nothing for me. We shouldn't care how many guys
we have, we should care who we have who's capable of making serious plays.
I agree but Mix has only 1 yr under his belt and could turn out to be special in the right scheme. Same with McMullen and Mann...both drafted by other teams and possibly they are no good but maybe in the right scheme they flourish. Lloyd is a bum, Toler = ?, Harris never showed much, Thrash has not produced as a WR as he did in his first stint, McCardell is old, Espy I liked alot but will he play or be injured every yr?, Moss and El are great #2/#3 but sub par #1/#2. We need a legitimate #1 WR who is tall and big to compliment our speed WR and possession WR.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:33 PM   #68
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
We can probably put this to bed now. Marinelli has stated that the Lions will not trade Roy Williams. Makes sense, why the hell would they? He and CJ can make for the best 1-2 punch in the league.

Lesson learned by the Warpath, just because a blog says it could happen doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Marinelli: Williams stays
Yeah. Just gaging the reaction on this board, Williams for a 2nd rounder was just not going to happen. First, as Schneed said, Williams and CJ make a potent receiver combo. Why dump him if they can afford him under the cap? Second. Even if he was trade bait, it is clear that the bidding was going to require a first rounder or multiple picks either this year or next to outbid some of the other teams listed.

While I would have been okay with a 2nd rounder, I would have opposed getting into a bidding war for him. Rather have the picks and take some shots. In fact, I hope we can drop a slot or two in various rounds and pick up some extra picks either this year or next.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:47 PM   #69
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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I agree but Mix has only 1 yr under his belt and could turn out to be special in the right scheme. Same with McMullen and Mann...both drafted by other teams and possibly they are no good but maybe in the right scheme they flourish. Lloyd is a bum, Toler = ?, Harris never showed much, Thrash has not produced as a WR as he did in his first stint, McCardell is old, Espy I liked alot but will he play or be injured every yr?, Moss and El are great #2/#3 but sub par #1/#2. We need a legitimate #1 WR who is tall and big to compliment our speed WR and possession WR.
I agree with the majority of this assessment but disagree with the bolded part. For those of you with "tall receiver" fascination one name: Steve Smith.

In the receiver dept. what we need is a receiver, regardless of height, who gets open in the endzone inside the redzone and takes some of the coverage away from Cooley. Height is helpful but not determinative. It certainly comes in handy on corner fades and the occasional jump ball, but, other than that, it is short area separation, not height, that is most important.

For whatever reason, neither Moss nor ARE seem particularly suited for the redzone (not sure what their stats there are - but would not be surprised to see the majority of their TD's come from 20 yards or beyond). But M. Harrison, who is not gigantic by any means seems to do well in the short field, ditto Steve Smith.

Not sure where we find the red-zone Cooley compliment that we need. But whereever we look, we should not say that only WR's 6' 2" and over need apply.
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:02 PM   #70
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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Originally Posted by JoeRedskin View Post
Yeah. Just gaging the reaction on this board, Williams for a 2nd rounder was just not going to happen. First, as Schneed said, Williams and CJ make a potent receiver combo. Why dump him if they can afford him under the cap? Second. Even if he was trade bait, it is clear that the bidding was going to require a first rounder or multiple picks either this year or next to outbid some of the other teams listed.

While I would have been okay with a 2nd rounder, I would have opposed getting into a bidding war for him. Rather have the picks and take some shots. In fact, I hope we can drop a slot or two in various rounds and pick up some extra picks either this year or next.
I think they will try to get something for him before his free agency year. Sure, they could franchise him, but he's going to leave before that team is competitive, and if they can become competitive faster by dealing him, then it's a good deal for them.

I would also be opposed to a bidding war for him. In any other year, I would give up a 2nd, but with the depth of this draft, the 2nd is far too valuable to trade.
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:34 PM   #71
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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Originally Posted by Schneed10 View Post
We can probably put this to bed now. Marinelli has stated that the Lions will not trade Roy Williams. Makes sense, why the hell would they? He and CJ can make for the best 1-2 punch in the league.

Lesson learned by the Warpath, just because a blog says it could happen doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Marinelli: Williams stays
Put it to bed 2 months before the draft? What GMs & coaches say during this period is usually about 50% true. Marinelli might mean what he says, but has he met w/RW & talked about an extension?

If they feel certain they can't sign him to an extension they may look to deal him. He has 1 yr. remaining on his rookie deal.

Schneed, reading your post reminded me of 04 when Gibbs said it was a "safe assumption" that Champ would be back w/the skins that year. Next thing I hear is that he's going to Denver.
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:45 PM   #72
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

Basically when a voach says "No trade, no way" it means "Our player is superior and you're going to have to make me an offer that we can't refuse."
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:58 PM   #73
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

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Put it to bed 2 months before the draft? What GMs & coaches say during this period is usually about 50% true. Marinelli might mean what he says, but has he met w/RW & talked about an extension?

If they feel certain they can't sign him to an extension they may look to deal him. He has 1 yr. remaining on his rookie deal.

Schneed, reading your post reminded me of 04 when Gibbs said it was a "safe assumption" that Champ would be back w/the skins that year. Next thing I hear is that he's going to Denver.
Point taken, what a coach says does not always mean it will be the case. But let's just take a step back and evaluate the big picture.

The Lions have been trying desperately to assemble big talent at WR. They drafted Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, Mike Williams, and now Calvin Johnson. They've hit on two of the four. Now, after all that, they'd consider giving up the one who is most proven out of all four of them, for a measly 2nd round pick?

Is it just me, or does that just fail to pass the sniff test?

And saying "the Lions are dumb" is not an explanation. They make boneheaded moves for sure, but one thing's clear: for the past four years they have gone hard after talent at WR. Just doesn't make sense that now they'd decide to change course and trade it away, especially for unequal value.
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:27 PM   #74
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

Well while we are at it lets play the devils advocate. Is there any way we can play the sniff test with Ocho? Lets look at how the deal could get done and if there is no possible way then it doesn't pass...right.

What would have to happen to keep Cincy from getting hammered with a 8 mil cap hit and still make the trade and how we would be able to accomodate them? A side from picks to entice them how would we get these teams to listen and give up their WR's?

Could CJ have Cincy design a new contract that would accomplish this or is the old contract set in stone and the only changes to be made will not change the cap hit?

If we are only looking at a WR who could deffinitly step up day one and produce. I would like for us to draft all new young players such as how the Patriots have in the past. Have a faster younger team with low cap but sometimes you need to think outside the box and think that whoever we draft will need to get up to NFL speed and HOPEFULLY be productive which might not be their first yr. Perhaps learning the ropes from some one we trade for.
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:37 PM   #75
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Re: Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

I know it seems I like CJ and I do. But also look at the other WR that are out there and perhaps someone could explain what it might come close to costing us for each WR prospect that might be good for us. I know I am asking alot.lol. but just best guestimation as to what we would have to pay to get the WR and possibly how it could get done instead of everyone jumping on the "He sucks" and " I like this one better" and "they all have personality issues."

I mentioned CJ cause Snyder is supposed to be enamored with CJ and was wondering if CJ's agent could pull something off what and how would it be. and perhaps how we can get the lions talking trade if they supposedly have closed the door. It seems all the teams are closing the doors on WR. Is it possibly that no team is high on any WR this yr?
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