JLC: Evaluating Anthony Mix

GridIron26 · 03-26-2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Chris Cooley

Glad that one's settled.

Gotta love his hair

skinsfan69 · 03-26-2008, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Chris Cooley

Glad that one's settled.

Cooley does not play the WR position. We need someone on the outside that is a game breaker. As much we all love Cooley he's not a game breaker. He doesn't take over games. He can't carry an offense if needed. Remember what TO and Plax did against us this year? Remember what Plax did to GB in the playoffs? We need a Wr that is capable of catching 85-100 balls, 1,200 to 1,400 yards and double digit TD's. Outside of Moss' year in 05 we just haven't had anyone.

GTripp0012 · 03-26-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Cooley does not play the WR position. We need someone on the outside that is a game breaker. As much we all love Cooley he's not a game breaker. He doesn't take over games. He can't carry an offense if needed. Remember what TO and Plax did against us this year? Remember what Plax did to GB in the playoffs? Outside of Moss' year in 05 we just haven't had anyone.

In his career he has taken over plenty of games. Think of San Francisco his rookie year, Dallas in '05, or Carolina in '06. I'm not sure what the definition of a gamebreaker is, but Cooley seems to fit all reasonable definitions.

The reason he can't carry an offense is that he doesn't play QB or RB. No WR draft pick is going to carry an offense.

I do remember what Plax did in the playoffs, but if we're being objective, I would say that over their careers, Santana is a better receiver (and certainly more of a gamebreaker than Plax is). I mean, Burress had been a disappointment until this year, and was best known for being a malcontent. I doubt he will ever have this sort of success again. T.O. is different, but how are we going to acquire the next T.O.? Guys like him don't exactly grow on trees. It's not like we need him anyway, I mean he wasn't very good in Dallas before he got Romo in there to throw to him.

If we got that guy that would be good for 1,200-1,400 yards a season, we'd have fewer balls to be thrown to potentially more explosive players. While we definately HAVE to add some depth, you have to like where we are now with Moss, Randle El, Cooley, and no Brandon Lloyd. Those guys should be able to catch all the balls Campbell is able to get to them.

freddyg12 · 03-26-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMScud

Anthony Mix. Really? I've never seen so much hype over a guy who wasn't drafted, has been in the league three years yet has never started a game, and has 3 catches EVER. THREE! At this point he's a been a practice squad to #5 caliber player.

Sure he's tall, but if this guy was a hidden gem, wouldn't he have shown something, anything at this point? I've read that he is a poor route runner and has just average speed for a WR. And people around here are talking about him playing his way into a #2 or #3? Based on what?

This article to me is total hogwash. JLC has nothing else to write about. We tried to get Hackett, and we didn't. We tried to re-sign Caldwell and he went to St. Louis instead. So when asked about Mix, Zorn said, "I like him." What's he supposed to say, "the guy is a bum and I don't like him" ?? Had Hackett or Caldwell been signed and Thrash makes the roster, Mix would be a 4 or 5 at best.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the guy emerge as a playmaker. But I see the chances of that happening as remote. 2009's WR class in the draft isn't exactly loaded, and unless we totally suck and end up with a top 5 pick, Michael Crabtree will be gone. Not drafting a WR this year would be a bad idea. Holding out with the hope of signing Roy Williams for '09 isn't a sound strategy either. I'd like to see a list of what WR's will be FA's next season.

Moss and ARE have constantly battled nagging injuries since signing with the team (except for Santana's 2005 campaign). No reason to think that will change. Mix can't be relied upon to fill in when one or both of them misses a game or two with the usual hamstring pull. IMO there is no rational justification for not drafting/trading for a WR. To do neither and hold out hope that Mix emerges is an awful move.

it's hard to judge "hype" on the warpath. Since this is a pg. devoted to chatting anything skins, of course a guy like Mix is to be talked about. I don't think anyone has said he's a future pro bowler, but like other names on the all man-crush squad, he's a guy we all have high hopes for. True he hasn't proven anything as a wr, but his play on special teams shows that he has some passion for the game.

WR's often take a few years to adapt to the nfl, so maybe he's at the point where he's maturing & feeling confident. Let's hope so. If Mix caught 30 passes this year I think that would be a major success provided he didn't have a bunch of big drops.

I think you're right about the injuries, but not w/ARE. He's been very durable, I believe he missed the first game of his career last year w/his hamstring injury. I agree that we should draft a wr, but that doesn't preclude Mix getting some pt.

Ruhskins · 03-26-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryssg

Close but not quite. Mix would be the #2 because ARE is moving to the slot. Please try and keep up.

You're right, Zorn did say he wants to put ARE back in the slot...but my point is that Mix is not competing for the #1 spot. I was speaking more in terms of talent and experience: Moss, ARE, and then Mix (well we have Thrash too, I guess)

Mattyk72 · 03-26-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

In his career he has taken over plenty of games. Think of San Francisco his rookie year, Dallas in '05, or Carolina in '06. I'm not sure what the definition of a gamebreaker is, but Cooley seems to fit all reasonable definitions.

Or how about the Green Bay game last year (9-105-1) or the first Dallas game (8-89-1) or vs. Tampa (6-96-1).

He's had his share of big games for us.

KB24 · 03-26-2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Or how about the Green Bay game last year (9-105-1) or the first Dallas game (8-89-1) or vs. Tampa (6-96-1).

He's had his share of big games for us.

You make great points about Cooley. But, we need another receiving weapon. Teams know that, for the most part, if you take Moss and Cooley away, the offense tends to become stagnant. Also, there were times where because the offensive line was struggling with injuries and personnel issues, Cooley had to stay in to help block (Last season's Green Bay game, for example). You add another consistent receiving threat to compliment Moss, you can exploit mismatches.

skinsfan69 · 03-26-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

In his career he has taken over plenty of games. Think of San Francisco his rookie year, Dallas in '05, or Carolina in '06. I'm not sure what the definition of a gamebreaker is, but Cooley seems to fit all reasonable definitions.

The reason he can't carry an offense is that he doesn't play QB or RB. No WR draft pick is going to carry an offense.

I do remember what Plax did in the playoffs, but if we're being objective, I would say that over their careers, Santana is a better receiver (and certainly more of a gamebreaker than Plax is). I mean, Burress had been a disappointment until this year, and was best known for being a malcontent. I doubt he will ever have this sort of success again. T.O. is different, but how are we going to acquire the next T.O.? Guys like him don't exactly grow on trees. It's not like we need him anyway, I mean he wasn't very good in Dallas before he got Romo in there to throw to him.

If we got that guy that would be good for 1,200-1,400 yards a season, we'd have fewer balls to be thrown to potentially more explosive players. While we definately HAVE to add some depth, you have to like where we are now with Moss, Randle El, Cooley, and no Brandon Lloyd. Those guys should be able to catch all the balls Campbell is able to get to them.

The bottom line is we're still not getting enough production and TD's out of the WR position. And not having Lloyd really doesn't make a difference cause he wasn't even on the field to begin with. Moss and ARE are not top tier NFL wr's on a year to year basis and the production backs it up. Are they good enough to win with and be a playoff contender? Yes. But is that the goal? If we're going to be a Super Bowl contending team we need a WR that can make a difference in the red zone. It's probably not going to happen this year because we have too many other needs. I'll throw out more names. CJ, TJ, Roy Williams, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edwards, Andre Johnson, Colston. There are a few more I could name. If we added someone with this type of potential it would open up the whole offense for everyone.

skinsnut · 03-26-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KB24

Also, there were times where because the offensive line was struggling with injuries and personnel issues, Cooley had to stay in to help block

Exactly....this is why OLine depth may make as much of a positive impact on our passing game as a new WR.

Mix is just another Espy that everyone wants to drool over.

Pick a WR, mid round or trade for a stud...but for heaven's sake...draft some line depth!

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 03-26-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Are you kidding me? What has Moss and ARE done the last two years? We need someone that can take over a game. Moss and ARE and nice 2nd and 3rd NFL wr's. Nothing more and nothing less.

I see you didn't mention Cooley, Portis or Betts. As for the wideouts, ARE had a damn fine year for a #2. Moss is undeniably capable of being dominant when healthy (yes, yes he's been hurt an awful lot). Moreover, we've been fielding a run-heavy offense these past few years so it doesn't surprise me that our wideouts aren't catching 300 balls a year for 3,500 yards.

In any case, I would LOVE to have a dominant wideout. I simply believe that we have more pressing needs elsewhere. Three-fifths of our offensive line is going to have be replaced within the next 2 years or so. Wideouts don't do much good when the QB is laying flat on his back. Half of our defensive line is going to be replaced within the next year or two. Springs and Fletcher will likely need to be replaced within the next year. That's all I'm saying.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 03-26-2008, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The bottom line is we're still not getting enough production and TD's out of the WR position. And not having Lloyd really doesn't make a difference cause he wasn't even on the field to begin with. Moss and ARE are not top tier NFL wr's on a year to year basis and the production backs it up. Are they good enough to win with and be a playoff contender? Yes. But is that the goal? If we're going to be a Super Bowl contending team we need a WR that can make a difference in the red zone. It's probably not going to happen this year because we have too many other needs. I'll throw out more names. CJ, TJ, Roy Williams, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edwards, Andre Johnson, Colston. There are a few more I could name. If we added someone with this type of potential it would open up the whole offense for everyone.

So you want to trade for one of those wideouts? Fitzgerald re-upped with Arizona and isn't going anywhere. CJ and TJ are both 30+; surely you don't want us to trade a high draft pick for an aging wideout after you blasted the team for trading high draft picks in the past. Edwards and Johnson couldn't be pried away from their teams with a crowbar. Detroit says firmly that it won't trade Roy Williams unless the offer absolutely blows them away.

If you want us to use our 1st rounder on a wideout, what makes you think he'll be a difference maker? About 50% of late first round wideouts are busts and few rookie wideouts have a meaningful impact. The odds of landing an impact rookie wideout with the 21st pick are pretty piss-poor.

GTripp0012 · 03-26-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The bottom line is we're still not getting enough production and TD's out of the WR position. And not having Lloyd really doesn't make a difference cause he wasn't even on the field to begin with. Moss and ARE are not top tier NFL wr's on a year to year basis and the production backs it up. Are they good enough to win with and be a playoff contender? Yes. But is that the goal? If we're going to be a Super Bowl contending team we need a WR that can make a difference in the red zone. It's probably not going to happen this year because we have too many other needs. I'll throw out more names. CJ, TJ, Roy Williams, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edwards, Andre Johnson, Colston. There are a few more I could name. If we added someone with this type of potential it would open up the whole offense for everyone.

Maybe a year or two down the road, we will have the money to spend on one in free agency. With regards to this draft, a third rounder or lower will be sufficient.

GTripp0012 · 03-26-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

If you want us to use our 1st rounder on a wideout, what makes you think he'll be a difference maker? About 50% of late first round wideouts are busts and few rookie wideouts have a meaningful impact. The odds of landing an impact rookie wideout with the 21st pick are pretty piss-poor.

Well, the chances are just as good if not better than any other spot in the first round. I still recommend against it though, because we're in an era where receivers are universally overvalued, both financially and in the draft.

The best course of action to improve our receivers (which as you have stated, isn't really a priority) is to spend a mid round pick on a guy who we expect to be the third receiver of the future for us, and hope we got a guy who is more than that.

GTripp0012 · 03-26-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The bottom line is we're still not getting enough production and TD's out of the WR position. And not having Lloyd really doesn't make a difference cause he wasn't even on the field to begin with. Moss and ARE are not top tier NFL wr's on a year to year basis and the production backs it up. Are they good enough to win with and be a playoff contender? Yes. But is that the goal? If we're going to be a Super Bowl contending team we need a WR that can make a difference in the red zone. It's probably not going to happen this year because we have too many other needs. I'll throw out more names. CJ, TJ, Roy Williams, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edwards, Andre Johnson, Colston. There are a few more I could name. If we added someone with this type of potential it would open up the whole offense for everyone.

Being a playoff contender is the realistic goal for this year. There's no reason to go acquire an elite WR before Campbell hits his prime. Some luck can get us deep into the playoffs, but until the QB develops to his potential, we're going to be trailing the elite teams in skill.

The only production you are going to get from your receivers is whatever the Quarterback is able to muster out. That's the flaw in ignoring Cooley in this analysis is that he's the single biggest component of the passing offense, so if you excluded him, the WR production looks shitty. Well duh. If you excluded Steve Smith from the Panthers, they'd be pretty awful too.

I'm sure theres a receiver or two in this draft who will go on to enjoy more success than Moss, but it's too risky to try and find them. Hopefully an opportunity to grab a great player opens up in future years and we jump on it, but Campbell is very capable of playing at a high level with the guys we already have, and that's all SGG and myself are saying here.

Angry · 03-26-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Maybe not. When they were talking about bringing in DJ Hackett the plan was to still keep ARE at the #2 in most packages.

I am not arguing or disagreeing with you, but the last and only thing that I read regarding that issue had ARE moving to the slot. Where did you get thst interesting little tid bit? Once again, not sarcasim, just interested.

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JLC: Evaluating Anthony Mix

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