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Old 04-24-2008, 02:13 PM   #91
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

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Originally Posted by Ruhskins View Post
Here's a quick proof that a lot of ppl are ranting about the CJ situation and don't stop to look at the situation more thoroughly:

CJ doesn't want a new deal, he wants out of Cincy...a poorly run team, with a bunch of thugs and terrible management.

Boldin wants a new deal and more money, especially after Fitz got a ton of money from the Cards. The Cards have offered him a new deal, but Rosenhaus didn't accept it.

Now, while I've said many times that CJ is a case head, in this situation I think the greedy one is Boldin. Why do I bring this up, because there are a lot of people who are just ranting b/c they hate CJ and not b/c they are making a good argument.

Besides, as it has been said before, we quickly come down on players that want out of their contracts, but say nothing when teams cut players before their contract is up. It's all a business, so let's stop pretending like both players and teams honor their contracts.
I don't think anyone has ranted about Chad wanting more money or out of Cincy. Please direct my attention to the posts in which people are complaining about his demand to be traded. Most people objecting to the trade are doing so on the ground that it would be costly to acquire him, he's aging, we could use all the draft picks we have, etc.

I find it funny that so many people who support the trade for Chad are so dismissive of anyone who opposes the trade. Instead of addressing the argument on the merits, those people make silly statements like, "ohh you're just ranting." It's akin to saying, "if you disagree with me, you are an idiot as I KNOW the future and determine objective truth." Kinda narcissistic view.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:44 PM   #92
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

"The Washington Redskins already came sniffing around after being turned down by the Cincinnati Bengals in their offer for Chad Johnson. Washington was offering the same package, this year’s first rounder along with a third in next year’s draft, but Arizona wisely said no thanks."

I'm not allowed to post a link apparenty, because I'm new, but it is from Raising Zona, a Cardinals blog.

Not sure if it is true, but I'm with some of the others who think that these WRs, while great, are not worth 2 first rounders. I forget where I read it (or heard it if it was on Jeremy Green's Football Today podcast), but apparently the performance markers for the Skins and the WR were fairly easy to meet. That's 2 first rounders gone for a team that is in sore need of help on both sides of the line (it killed me to watch our Oline get decimated by injuries last year, to the point where if another one went down we were putting a backup Dlineman in).

The cap gets bigger every year, and our guys, though frustrating at times (turf-toe Deion for one), are brilliant at working it. I'm not worried about that. Roy, CJ and Boldin are all studs. There is just no doubt about that. But is a King's ransom really worth it? And I mean the draft picks, not the contract.

As for the guy who said we aren't in the position to win the superbowl this year with just one more player, I don't want to hear it. At times last year we looked great. The friggin Giants won the SB. You don't think we could do it next year with a stud WR? Optimism man.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:48 PM   #93
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

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Originally Posted by John Riggins View Post
"The Washington Redskins already came sniffing around after being turned down by the Cincinnati Bengals in their offer for Chad Johnson. Washington was offering the same package, this year’s first rounder along with a third in next year’s draft, but Arizona wisely said no thanks."

I'm not allowed to post a link apparenty, because I'm new, but it is from Raising Zona, a Cardinals blog.

Not sure if it is true, but I'm with some of the others who think that these WRs, while great, are not worth 2 first rounders. I forget where I read it (or heard it if it was on Jeremy Green's Football Today podcast), but apparently the performance markers for the Skins and the WR were fairly easy to meet. That's 2 first rounders gone for a team that is in sore need of help on both sides of the line (it killed me to watch our Oline get decimated by injuries last year, to the point where if another one went down we were putting a backup Dlineman in).

The cap gets bigger every year, and our guys, though frustrating at times (turf-toe Deion for one), are brilliant at working it. I'm not worried about that. Roy, CJ and Boldin are all studs. There is just no doubt about that. But is a King's ransom really worth it? And I mean the draft picks, not the contract.

As for the guy who said we aren't in the position to win the superbowl this year with just one more player, I don't want to hear it. At times last year we looked great. The friggin Giants won the SB. You don't think we could do it next year with a stud WR? Optimism man.

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Old 04-24-2008, 02:49 PM   #94
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Riggins View Post
"The Washington Redskins already came sniffing around after being turned down by the Cincinnati Bengals in their offer for Chad Johnson. Washington was offering the same package, this year’s first rounder along with a third in next year’s draft, but Arizona wisely said no thanks."

I'm not allowed to post a link apparenty, because I'm new, but it is from Raising Zona, a Cardinals blog.

Not sure if it is true, but I'm with some of the others who think that these WRs, while great, are not worth 2 first rounders. I forget where I read it (or heard it if it was on Jeremy Green's Football Today podcast), but apparently the performance markers for the Skins and the WR were fairly easy to meet. That's 2 first rounders gone for a team that is in sore need of help on both sides of the line (it killed me to watch our Oline get decimated by injuries last year, to the point where if another one went down we were putting a backup Dlineman in).

The cap gets bigger every year, and our guys, though frustrating at times (turf-toe Deion for one), are brilliant at working it. I'm not worried about that. Roy, CJ and Boldin are all studs. There is just no doubt about that. But is a King's ransom really worth it? And I mean the draft picks, not the contract.

As for the guy who said we aren't in the position to win the superbowl this year with just one more player, I don't want to hear it. At times last year we looked great. The friggin Giants won the SB. You don't think we could do it next year with a stud WR? Optimism man.

Here you go:
ESPN - Adding star WR rarely improves team - NFL

Adding star WR rarely improves team

By Aaron Schatz
Football Outsiders.com
(Archive)
Updated: April 23, 2008

When it comes to NFL wide receivers, the watchword of the day is "disgruntled." Chad Johnson is unhappy in Cincinnati and has demanded a trade. Anquan Boldin is unhappy in Arizona and has also demanded a trade. At least we know Boldin is unhappy about money; nobody seems to know why Johnson wants out of Cincinnati.

In recent years, adding a disgruntled wide receiver has provided the final piece of the puzzle for a number of Super Bowl contenders. Trading for Terrell Owens helped the 2004 Eagles finally advance to the Super Bowl. Trading for Randy Moss transformed the New England offense and led to a 16-0 regular season. It's no wonder numerous teams have contacted Cincinnati and Arizona, trying to talk trade.

However, if the Bengals and Cardinals give in to the trade demands, it may not mean as much as people think. NFL teams that add a star wide receiver don't actually have a very good record of improvement.
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Old 04-24-2008, 02:59 PM   #95
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

Thank you Earthquake - it's good to be here.

Did you see the WRs on that list Dirtbag? I'm not pretending like we're as good as the Pats were pre-Moss, but we're as good as the Iggles were pre-TO and I'd argue that Boldin is a TO-type WR.

The WRs on the list: John Jefferson is before my time, so I'll have to leave him out; but Jeff Graham, Yancey Thigpen, LColes (even though I do love him), Peerless and Muhsin? These guys, while obviously coming off 1200 yard seasons (the parameter for the list) just aren't in the same league as Boldin, Roy or CJ in my opinion.

Besides, my "we could win the SB with a stud WR add-on" was made more to point out that we are there. I don't even think we need a stud WR to win, though our offense obviously needs something extra at times. A simple possession WR like the aging Keyshawn from a couple years ago for example. I think we can win it all this year, with or without one of these WRs.
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:17 PM   #96
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

If we had the same team and same coaching staff as we did in 07 I would agree with you that adding a stud WR could give us what we need to make a run for the SB. But we don't. Its going to take time for the skins to adjust to Zorn's new system. There are always growing pains with a new coach and a new system. Realistically you can't expect to make a run for the SB this year.
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:51 PM   #97
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

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If we had the same team and same coaching staff as we did in 07 I would agree with you that adding a stud WR could give us what we need to make a run for the SB. But we don't. Its going to take time for the skins to adjust to Zorn's new system. There are always growing pains with a new coach and a new system. Realistically you can't expect to make a run for the SB this year.
Ok I agree on this....but...Zorn was not brought in to rebuild a team. He was brought in to keep the Defense the same and keep the Offense the same. We did not even have a major turn over in coach's. The only reason Zorn was brought in was to establish a West Coast offense and make our passing attack better. Now having said that you can quote coach as saying he wants to keep the running game the same. Which means he is only changing the passing. If everything other then the head coach is the same then there's no reason to believe we will not make the play offs again. If he can make our passing 25% better then last yr which I'll be honest I bet it will be more like 75% then theres no reason to think playoffs. So a proven WR like CJ, Williams, Bolden could take us over the hump. More points was all we needed last yr. The Defense did it's job.

Yes there are injuries, but the Skins are not worried about them so it's amazing how the fans are freakin out about the injuries.
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:24 PM   #98
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

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Ok I agree on this....but...Zorn was not brought in to rebuild a team. He was brought in to keep the Defense the same and keep the Offense the same. We did not even have a major turn over in coach's. The only reason Zorn was brought in was to establish a West Coast offense and make our passing attack better. Now having said that you can quote coach as saying he wants to keep the running game the same. Which means he is only changing the passing. If everything other then the head coach is the same then there's no reason to believe we will not make the play offs again. If he can make our passing 25% better then last yr which I'll be honest I bet it will be more like 75% then theres no reason to think playoffs. So a proven WR like CJ, Williams, Bolden could take us over the hump. More points was all we needed last yr. The Defense did it's job.

Yes there are injuries, but the Skins are not worried about them so it's amazing how the fans are freakin out about the injuries.
You contradict yourself there when you say Zorn was brought in to keep the defense and the offense the same. We're not looking at a minor change to Gibbs/Saunders scheme, we're switching to an entirely different kind of offense. And your whole "the running game is going to be the same" argument is flawed, because Portis isn't gonna be running between the tackles anymore and they are going to try and use him more in the passing game. WCO is basically about short passes and trying to get more yards after the catch, whereas Saunders offense is using the run to set up the deep ball.

And saying that because the Redskins aren't anticipating injuries so we shouldn't be is not smart. Nobody anticipates injuries in the offseason, but you can damn sure bet that at some point in the season you're going to lose guys, especially when you have quite a few players that have had multiple injuries in the past few seasons. That's why it's important to have good depth.

You're right when you say Zorn wasn't brought in to rebuild the team, because he wants to pretty much keep the talent we have in place, but at the same time, we're not going to be the same team we were last year. We're going to be playing a different style of offense, and yes the defense will be the same but that's not the argument at hand here. If our offense has trouble switching to a WCO then you can probably bet that we won't be doing much this year. It might happen but if it doesn't then we should be able to be as good as, if not better, then last year.
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:29 PM   #99
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Re: Trade for Boldin?

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Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha View Post
I don't think anyone has ranted about Chad wanting more money or out of Cincy. Please direct my attention to the posts in which people are complaining about his demand to be traded. Most people objecting to the trade are doing so on the ground that it would be costly to acquire him, he's aging, we could use all the draft picks we have, etc.

I find it funny that so many people who support the trade for Chad are so dismissive of anyone who opposes the trade. Instead of addressing the argument on the merits, those people make silly statements like, "ohh you're just ranting." It's akin to saying, "if you disagree with me, you are an idiot as I KNOW the future and determine objective truth." Kinda narcissistic view.
Yes, most people have made very good arguments against a CJ trade b/c of cap issues, using our draft picks, and addressing other areas of need. But some people just don't like the guy and complain that he just wants money, he's going to be a locker room cancer, that he's a horrible person, etc., etc.

And honestly, I was trying to make the point with my post that I don't think arguing against a player that "wants more money" is a valid argument, since both the player and team never honor their contracts and both are always looking for more money.
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