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The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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Old 05-15-2008, 11:16 AM   #61
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

Let's be honest, at best the guy has 1-2 stellar seasons left in the tank. Moreover, his cap figure is more than significant. You don't pay for the past, you pay for the future. He's not worth anything more than a 3rd-4th rounder IMO. I'd be fine with giving up a 4th for him and somewhat troubled if we gave up a 3rd for him. Remember, we got Dockery and Cooley in the 3rd round.

I'm amazed that the Dolphins were asking for a first rounder. That's pretty insane IMO. Anyone who gives up a 1st or 2nd rounder for him is crazy.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:33 PM   #62
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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Let's be honest, at best the guy has 1-2 stellar seasons left in the tank. Moreover, his cap figure is more than significant. You don't pay for the past, you pay for the future. He's not worth anything more than a 3rd-4th rounder IMO. I'd be fine with giving up a 4th for him and somewhat troubled if we gave up a 3rd for him. Remember, we got Dockery and Cooley in the 3rd round.

I'm amazed that the Dolphins were asking for a first rounder. That's pretty insane IMO. Anyone who gives up a 1st or 2nd rounder for him is crazy.
If the Dolphins dont set a high price for Taylor who will?
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:33 PM   #63
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

I would actually be thrilled to get Jason Taylor (obviously for the right price). I think he is a great pass rusher right now and probably for another 2 seasons. In the event that he does start slowing down, i feel like he has the frame to put on a few pounds of muscle and adapt his game a little bit to be a run-stopper. I don't think there is much risk in paying him for a few years and having him restructure his contract down the line.

Some of you guys who disagree with acquiring him are rightfully wary of chemistry issues, him fitting into our system, previous FA's gone bad, and dead cap space but i think Jason Taylor is the kind of guy who has so much talent that he is definitely worth it.

2007-11 sacks 56 tackles
2006-13.5 sacks 60 tackles
2005-12.0 sacks 74 tackles
2004-9.5 sacks 67 tackles
2003-13.0 sacks 57 tackles
2002-18.5 sacks 69 tackles
2001-8.5 sacks 70 tackles
2000-14.5 sacks 65 tackles

If that isn't the model of consistency i don't know what is...Considering he lost that complementary guy in Ogunleye in '03 but hasn't missed a beat and has cranked out those numbers, it's really impressive. He get's double teamed nearly every game he plays. I think this is the most important stat to us if we get him...In the past 10 years the Miami dolphins have played 160 regular season games and Jason Taylor has started 158 and played in 159 of those games. He hasn't missed a game in EIGHT years. That is just SICK from the D-end position.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:53 PM   #64
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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Let Miami release him and then we'll pick him up. They probably don't want to pay is 8 mil salary so play the waiting game. Giving up a high draft pick for Taylor is simply insane.

I'm not so sure about Taylor putting us over the hump either. We don't have a wr like Plax B. that can take over a game. Plus the Giants have 3 or 4 guys that can get after the passer. Right now we barely have one.
I doubt Miami will release him, nothing new has happened here since the draft. Parcells put some bait out there (Taylor) leading up to the draft hoping to catch a big fish (1st Round pick) and when he didn't get any bites he's going to keep Taylor. He also set the tone in Miami moving forward. Taylor is a good bet to have 10 sacks next season and the Phins are way under the cap ($18.5 million of cap room). Unless there are any more incidents/statements here I think Taylor stays in South Beach.

Carter is great speed rushing DE and Griffin is a very solid DT who can get after the passer so I think if we added Taylor we'd have 3 guys who could get after the passer. Santana Moss dominated games a few years ago with his speed. Plex dominated a few games last season with his size when he wasn't hurt.

We are not guaranteed to get a star or even a standout with the 2nd round pick in the 2009 Draft. It's still a crapshoot... for every Cooley and Dockery in the 3rd round there's a Rashad Bauman, Cliff Russell and Lloyd Harrisson. For every Jon Jansen or Fred Smoot in the 2nd there's a Taylor Jacobs, Greg Jones, Stephen Alexander or Ladell Betts. Betts has been a good player for us but worthy of a 2nd round pick? Not IMO. We've had some bad luck in the 1st round too. Is 2 seasons of a proven comody like Jason Taylor playing at a Pro Bowl level worth the opportunity of drafting Ladell Betts in the 2nd round?

Gibbs traded our 1st rounder for an older veteran T Jim Lachey who ended up being one of the key pieces in a couple SB's

It was fun having 3 picks in the 2nd round but if in 5 years we look back and 1 or god forbid 2 of them never make an impact on the field then trading one of those 2nd rounders for Jason Taylor who went on to play 2 more years of 11 sack, pro bowl DE looks like a no brainer doesn't it?

My point is, draft picks are not proven commodities no matter how high they are. If you can mortgage some of that risk over the long haul for less of a risk over a shorter period of time sometimes it makes sense.
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Old 05-15-2008, 01:56 PM   #65
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

I don't see Miami releasing him either. Not sure what his cap hit would be but I'm sure Miami probably isn't interested in eating that for nothing.
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:42 PM   #66
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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I doubt Miami will release him, nothing new has happened here since the draft. Parcells put some bait out there (Taylor) leading up to the draft hoping to catch a big fish (1st Round pick) and when he didn't get any bites he's going to keep Taylor. He also set the tone in Miami moving forward. Taylor is a good bet to have 10 sacks next season and the Phins are way under the cap ($18.5 million of cap room). Unless there are any more incidents/statements here I think Taylor stays in South Beach.

Carter is great speed rushing DE and Griffin is a very solid DT who can get after the passer so I think if we added Taylor we'd have 3 guys who could get after the passer. Santana Moss dominated games a few years ago with his speed. Plex dominated a few games last season with his size when he wasn't hurt.

We are not guaranteed to get a star or even a standout with the 2nd round pick in the 2009 Draft. It's still a crapshoot... for every Cooley and Dockery in the 3rd round there's a Rashad Bauman, Cliff Russell and Lloyd Harrisson. For every Jon Jansen or Fred Smoot in the 2nd there's a Taylor Jacobs, Greg Jones, Stephen Alexander or Ladell Betts. Betts has been a good player for us but worthy of a 2nd round pick? Not IMO. We've had some bad luck in the 1st round too. Is 2 seasons of a proven comody like Jason Taylor playing at a Pro Bowl level worth the opportunity of drafting Ladell Betts in the 2nd round?

Gibbs traded our 1st rounder for an older veteran T Jim Lachey who ended up being one of the key pieces in a couple SB's

It was fun having 3 picks in the 2nd round but if in 5 years we look back and 1 or god forbid 2 of them never make an impact on the field then trading one of those 2nd rounders for Jason Taylor who went on to play 2 more years of 11 sack, pro bowl DE looks like a no brainer doesn't it?

My point is, draft picks are not proven commodities no matter how high they are. If you can mortgage some of that risk over the long haul for less of a risk over a shorter period of time sometimes it makes sense.
\

Well last time I checked the Giants D-line simply beat the crap out of NE's O-line when it mattered most. Our D-line does not have that type of ability of dominate. I haven't seen Griff cave in the pocket since 05. He's solid but he can't dominate and neither can Carter. Moss is not a #1 wr. He's too streaky, hasn't put up big numbers since 05 and injuries really seem to hurt his play. Plus he doesn't get in the end zone like Burress does and that's why we drafted Kelly and Thomas.

Taylor would help but we've already tried this experiment with Bruce Smith. It didn't work. Plus we're not really a SB contending type of team. It looks like we're in transition. New coach, new system on offense and so on. So why chase a 34 year old DE that makes 8 mil?? I just don't see him pushing us over the hump. We've just got too many question marks.

If one of these 2nd round guys fail it doesn't cripple the cap for the next 10 years like this Brandon Lloyd BS. I hope we keep on drafting, and add free agents here and there.
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:42 PM   #67
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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Well last time I checked the Giants D-line simply beat the crap out of NE's O-line when it mattered most. Our D-line does not have that type of ability of dominate. I haven't seen Griff cave in the pocket since 05. He's solid but he can't dominate and neither can Carter. Moss is not a #1 wr. He's too streaky, hasn't put up big numbers since 05 and injuries really seem to hurt his play. Plus he doesn't get in the end zone like Burress does and that's why we drafted Kelly and Thomas.

Taylor would help but we've already tried this experiment with Bruce Smith. It didn't work. Plus we're not really a SB contending type of team. It looks like we're in transition. New coach, new system on offense and so on. So why chase a 34 year old DE that makes 8 mil?? I just don't see him pushing us over the hump. We've just got too many question marks.

If one of these 2nd round guys fail it doesn't cripple the cap for the next 10 years like this Brandon Lloyd BS. I hope we keep on drafting, and add free agents here and there.
We dominated the trenches vs the GMen in NYC last year,

we only have a new Pass offense this year... our running game will be the same. We also have a lot of the coaches and systems on Defense and teams carrying over from last year

Burress is streaky and injury prone too

Bruce Smith was already on the decline and was a shell of his former self, Taylor has not shown any signs of slowing down to date

Moss does things that Burress can't too like stretch the defense with his speed. The difference between a Super Bowl and a playoff team is not so big, injuries and breaks play a big role. Who would have picked the Packers to do well last year in the preseason?
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Old 05-15-2008, 05:05 PM   #68
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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We dominated the trenches vs the GMen in NYC last year,

we only have a new Pass offense this year... our running game will be the same. We also have a lot of the coaches and systems on Defense and teams carrying over from last year

Burress is streaky and injury prone too

Bruce Smith was already on the decline and was a shell of his former self, Taylor has not shown any signs of slowing down to date

Moss does things that Burress can't too like stretch the defense with his speed. The difference between a Super Bowl and a playoff team is not so big, injuries and breaks play a big role. Who would have picked the Packers to do well last year in the preseason?
Burress is injury prone but the difference is he can still play at a high level when injured and Moss can't. Plus he a red zone threat. If you saw the GB game he simply took the game over against GB's corners in -10 weather with foot and ankle injuries and that's the difference. Moss quit against GB's corners. I'll take Burress over SM anyday of the week.

I do agree with you that there is not a big difference between us and the Giants. They got hot at the right time. If Miami gives up Taylor for a 4th rounder I'd do it. But not a 1st through 3rd. If they want to unload him and his salary then they'll take the short end of the stick. See Randy Moss to NE last year. That's what smart teams do.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:31 PM   #69
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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If they want to unload him and his salary then they'll take the short end of the stick. See Randy Moss to NE last year. That's what smart teams do.
Are you suggesting that the Raiders were a smart team for unloading Moss to NE?

Are you thinking Bill Parcells is stupid enough to unload a high character guy for a song (compared to a Moss problem child)

I dont think so....

Would YOU unload Jason Taylor for less than a 3rd?
NO WAY....I probably wouldn't do it for a 2nd...he's just that good.
(and now very flexible and unlikely to get injured due to this crazy dancing gig)

Honestly...post draft...any trade talk is likely to get his to consider restructuring to bring down his cap hit....
If anyone gets him for less than a 2nd I'd be suprized...Parcells aint dumb.
But I'd still hope we'd offer him a 3rd and hope we get lucky.

He would instantly upgrade our most questionable position, short and mid term.
NO ONE that is that buff only has 2 years left
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:14 PM   #70
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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Well last time I checked the Giants D-line simply beat the crap out of NE's O-line when it mattered most.
Giants won when it mattered. Had they not squeaked by in the SB everyone wouldn't be talking as much about the huge need for a killer d-line. They'd be talking about the 18 near murders that the Patriots put on through the rest of the year. What the Pats did on offense all year greatly eclipses what the Giants front 4 did.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:32 PM   #71
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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Giants won when it mattered. Had they not squeaked by in the SB everyone wouldn't be talking as much about the huge need for a killer d-line. They'd be talking about the 18 near murders that the Patriots put on through the rest of the year. What the Pats did on offense all year greatly eclipses what the Giants front 4 did.
So to jump in here...but I firmly disagree. It doesn't matter what you do during the season, you HAVE to bring home the big one, or none of it matters. What the Giants did in the SB does indeed eclipse the offensive juggernaut that was the Patriots in 07. The Giants won when it mattered.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:00 PM   #72
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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Are you suggesting that the Raiders were a smart team for unloading Moss to NE?

Are you thinking Bill Parcells is stupid enough to unload a high character guy for a song (compared to a Moss problem child)

I dont think so....

Would YOU unload Jason Taylor for less than a 3rd?
NO WAY....I probably wouldn't do it for a 2nd...he's just that good.
(and now very flexible and unlikely to get injured due to this crazy dancing gig)

Honestly...post draft...any trade talk is likely to get his to consider restructuring to bring down his cap hit....
If anyone gets him for less than a 2nd I'd be suprized...Parcells aint dumb.
But I'd still hope we'd offer him a 3rd and hope we get lucky.

He would instantly upgrade our most questionable position, short and mid term.
NO ONE that is that buff only has 2 years left
Hell no. The Raiders were the dumb asses in that deal. They should've got at least a 2nd round pick. NE came out ahead. Way ahead and that's what we need to start doing when we try and get FA's. Instead we give up draft picks for Brunell, Lloyd Duckett and so on.

How many years do you think Taylor can play at a high level? One or two years. If you think we're one player away from being a SB contender then make the move. I just don't think we're that type of team.

If I were Miami I would just trade him away and get what I could. They're in 100% rebuilding moad. When they're ready to contend he is going to be long gone. I'd ask for a player and a 3rd rounder.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:02 PM   #73
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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Giants won when it mattered. Had they not squeaked by in the SB everyone wouldn't be talking as much about the huge need for a killer d-line. They'd be talking about the 18 near murders that the Patriots put on through the rest of the year. What the Pats did on offense all year greatly eclipses what the Giants front 4 did.
I don't know about that. Yes, NE's 07 offense was record breaking. But I'm sure if you asked Brady and Moss they'd probably throw those records away if they could've gotten the win over the Giants.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:08 PM   #74
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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So to jump in here...but I firmly disagree. It doesn't matter what you do during the season, you HAVE to bring home the big one, or none of it matters. What the Giants did in the SB does indeed eclipse the offensive juggernaut that was the Patriots in 07. The Giants won when it mattered.
I too have to go 100% here with Jsarno...the Giants D-line did what no other defense did ALL SEASON! And that was get in Brady's face all game.

That being said...if we "somehow"...could get Taylor at the right price (aka not one that would break our bank as in the past) I'd be all for bringing him on-board. For the same reason that we're talking about...D-line!!! Let's pretend and be SUPER optimistic and say the Redskins go to the Super Bowl this year and face the Pats, assuming their offense is like last years, who here would feel confident with the D-line the way it is against the Pats as of right now???
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:21 PM   #75
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re: The official Jason Taylor discussion thread (mega-merge)

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I too have to go 100% here with Jsarno...the Giants D-line did what no other defense did ALL SEASON! And that was get in Brady's face all game.

That being said...if we "somehow"...could get Taylor at the right price (aka not one that would break our bank as in the past) I'd be all for bringing him on-board. For the same reason that we're talking about...D-line!!! Let's pretend and be SUPER optimistic and say the Redskins go to the Super Bowl this year and face the Pats, assuming their offense is like last years, who here would feel confident with the D-line the way it is against the Pats as of right now???
I absolutely agree.
Although we'd have to take something an 8 mil salary too. Not so sure we need that. But if we could somehow restructure him, I'm all for it.
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