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RI: JZ and JC

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Old 05-09-2008, 02:49 PM   #16
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

SC Skins fan:
#1 i can agree to an extent. nonethless, collins manages the game and offense. campbell just looks uneasy.

#2 is not a good point. Joe Gibbs offenses are all about ball control. When our QB throws for 300 yards, its usually means we are losing. Its all about managing the game and not losing it (ala TB and Dallas game this year, Campbells INTs were costly)

#3 - I want a QB that gives us the best chance to win NOW. How much longer are we going to wait for this guy to lead us deep in the playoffs? 2,3,4 more years? never?
Campbell was highly sought after his 11-0 season with Auburn, mind you they had the #1 D in the nation giving up like 200 yards a game, and he basically just "didnt lose games"
His QB rating has been in the bottom tier of the league the last two years.
Believe me, I hope I am wrong and he takes us to the promise land.
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:11 PM   #17
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

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SC Skins fan:
#2 is not a good point. Joe Gibbs offenses are all about ball control. When our QB throws for 300 yards, its usually means we are losing. Its all about managing the game and not losing it (ala TB and Dallas game this year, Campbells INTs were costly)
I don't know why I allow myself to get dragged into fruitless arguments, but...

You are running around in circles with your points. Campbell throws for 300 yards only because the Redskins are losing ... fair point, but were the Redskins losing to Dallas because of Campbell? Perhaps you remember the Sean Taylor-less defensive backfield that allowed T.O. to score FOUR TDs? How about in Tampa where Santana Moss fumbled inside the 30, Clinton Portis fumbled inside the 30, and then (admittedly) Campbell fumbled inside the 30 (something he certainly did too much of last season). But the point is, the fact that Campbell was playing from behind or forced to pass is not in itself an indictment of Campbell. I think you really ought to go back and watch some of those games again because I think you are looking back through Todd Collins tinted glasses. You say Campbell looked 'uneasy' and yet at the time many commentators and many here were describing him as 'poised' (go watch the Detroit game or the first Philly game - if you can make it past the endless Charles Barkley commentary - or any number of other games) - my point is you are making up your own history to suit your own purposes.

The larger point here (which I tried to make earlier with sarcasm) is that Todd Collins made those exact same kinds of mistakes that you indict Campbell for during the Seattle game when he was forced to play from behind and the Skins could not mix in a healthy dose of the run game. He was under heavy pressure (as Campbell often was), he was playing from behind, and he turned the ball over too. As I said, luckily you are the only one calling for Todd Collins to start because it is the height of absurdity.
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:22 PM   #18
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

^ agreed.
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:29 PM   #19
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

i agree two or is that three
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:36 PM   #20
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

oh the commentators said he looked poised. then its bible. please....

we can round and round about specific games. look at the arizona game this year the redskins won and amassed 178 yards or so of total offense. campbell was awful. most of the points were setup off of Skins picks - taylor (RIP) and Fletcher.

Sure the Skins were behind in both those games against TB and Dallas - but good QBs finish those drives with game winning TD's, not Ints. both those picks were not even close to the receiver. I understand collins threw cost picks in the Seattle game, thats why looking at an overall QB rating takes into consideration the average entire season, and Campbell continues to be in the high 70's, which is in the bottom third of the league. its kind of hard to argue stats. 4-6 as a starter wont cut it in DC. Cambpell is lucky there was a coaching change, because Gibbs would have stuck with Collins.


you know, this is the same argument I had with people when they were high on Ramsey.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:24 PM   #21
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

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we can round and round about specific games. look at the arizona game this year the redskins won and amassed 178 yards or so of total offense. campbell was awful. most of the points were setup off of Skins picks - taylor (RIP) and Fletcher.
Jason also led the drive that won the game and made a huge play when he held the ball instead of executing the shovel pass that was called to Clinton Portis. Calvin Pace had the play diagnosed and was ready to blow up Portis or intercept the ball. Seeing that Campbell decided to keep the ball and ran something like 14 yards for a 1st down. Watch the games ...
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:37 PM   #22
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

well, even rex grossman and trent edwards have thrown a game winning TD. would you say they are good?

again, look at the overall record as a starter and his QB rating......
4-6 and 78%....not even average
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:56 PM   #23
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

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well, even rex grossman and trent edwards have thrown a game winning TD. would you say they are good?

again, look at the overall record as a starter and his QB rating......
4-6 and 78%....not even average
Grossman, no; Trent Edwards, I don't know because he hasn't started enough games, which is the same thing I'd say about Campbell (I'd rather judge a QB after 30 starts). Also, I don't even know where you are getting your numbers from. I mean, the actually numbers might actually support your case more, but where are you getting 4-6 as a starter? It is like 7-12 actually. Just sloppy on your part since the real numbers would actually lend to your argument.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:01 PM   #24
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

It seems that if there isn't a real QB controversy some of us create on ourselves lol. It's really as simple as Campbell is much younger then Collins and he's the QB that Zorn wants running (and learning) his offense.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:07 PM   #25
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

was referring to this year. actually it was 5-6. either way its below average.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:10 PM   #26
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

what exactly is the "average" that he is below. Can you find that for me.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:16 PM   #27
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

well lets see smart guy, normally you need a winning record to make the playoffs
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:29 PM   #28
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

You win, I think Zorn should spend the offseason tearing apart Collins mechanics and rebuilding them so he can put together 1-2 seasons of quality game managment for us until he starts drawing Social Security. That would have worked great in Seattle too. Zorn could have spent his time with Trent Dilfer and not wasted any time on that Matt Hasselbeck kid (3 probowls) who was below average. Lord knows developing a probowler for the next decade or so is not near as important as what happens games 1-6 this season.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:37 PM   #29
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

Must be the offseason...
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:43 PM   #30
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Re: RI: JZ and JC

Hey, I'm still pissed that Kent Graham never got the chance to be our starter after the 2001 season!! Seriously though, Collins/Campbell is a tough call, but Campbell is our future. I think SC Skins Fan has already cleared it up for those who don't think Campbell has the skills to take us all the way. Just be glad we have a very competent backup in Todd Collins and let Jason Campbell lead the way.
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