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Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Old 05-23-2008, 05:19 AM   #31
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME View Post
Brunell and Collins have started 2/3 of the games since he arrived???? the question has been how couldn't Campbell get on the field with the likes of Brunell in front of him doing absolutely nothing, or the fact that a career backup in his late 30's comes in and moves the ball up and down the field, while Campbells previous best efforts left our offense stagnated? Sorry but 3 years in the league is more than enough time to learn whatever you have to, he had 3 years under Gibbs who runs the same basic offense as Saunders, it's like the WCO, it varies from coach to coach but the same basic principals.

Now ARE is a Saunders guy? Come on all Gibbs could talk about is how he had to get that guy because of how he killed us when we played Pitt, personally I like ARE and glad to have him on board, Lloyd? I guess Saunders had a lot of say in personnel? Although all his lobbying and influence within the organization couldn't get his guy Collins on the field now could it?
i think you're vastly mis-remembering last year.

the whole offense stunk, portis and moss were having issues, as was the OL, and they were adjusting to saunders playbook still.

after everyone got on the same page it worked a little better.

everyone wants to win, so i'm not sure what all these smoking man conspiracy theories are really for...
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:35 AM   #32
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by skinsnut View Post
Montgomery, I can see...the other 2 are easily replaced and none are pressing issues right now...
The cost risk of a breakout season for these 3 vs JC is significant.

The benefit of extending Campbell before a breakout saves a tremendous amount more than a breakout for these guys....and there is still flop potential for Golson and Doughty.
I agree with the extending of Monty, but Doughty and Golston don't need to be extended before the end of the season. Campbell is probably more of a wait and see approach. If he succeeds we will definitly frontload his contract with a huge signing bonus.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:52 AM   #33
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME View Post
Brunell and Collins have started 2/3 of the games since he arrived???? the question has been how couldn't Campbell get on the field with the likes of Brunell in front of him doing absolutely nothing, or the fact that a career backup in his late 30's comes in and moves the ball up and down the field, while Campbells previous best efforts left our offense stagnated? Sorry but 3 years in the league is more than enough time to learn whatever you have to, he had 3 years under Gibbs who runs the same basic offense as Saunders, it's like the WCO, it varies from coach to coach but the same basic principals.

Now ARE is a Saunders guy? Come on all Gibbs could talk about is how he had to get that guy because of how he killed us when we played Pitt, personally I like ARE and glad to have him on board, Lloyd? I guess Saunders had a lot of say in personnel? Although all his lobbying and influence within the organization couldn't get his guy Collins on the field now could it?
Your statements make you sound like a typical uneducated fan. The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).

Collins only started due to JC's injury. Gibbs traditionally doesn't start rookie QBs, so the first year JC really had little to no chance to see the field other than by injury. So your statement about Brunell/Collins starting 2/3 of the games since Campbell has been here, while close to factually accurate, doesn't paint the correct picture.

Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.

Lloyd and ARE were both Saunders guys.

NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

"The free agents had to be able to get deep, to draw enough attention from linebackers, corners and safeties to give mercurial Santana Moss more man-to-man coverage or make room for Cooley's new, deeper pass routes. Once the defense is spread, Portis' chances of gashing them with breakaway runs would increase dramatically.
The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.
"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant. "Everyone knows what Brandon can do on the football field, his speed, the acrobatic catches. With Randle El, it's what he can do in the slot, the double moves, his cutting ability. Getting them really expanded the offense."
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:01 AM   #34
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Your statements make you sound like a typical uneducated fan. The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).

Collins only started due to JC's injury. Gibbs traditionally doesn't start rookie QBs, so the first year JC really had little to no chance to see the field other than by injury. So your statement about Brunell/Collins starting 2/3 of the games since Campbell has been here, while close to factually accurate, doesn't paint the correct picture.

Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.

Lloyd and ARE were both Saunders guys.

NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

"The free agents had to be able to get deep, to draw enough attention from linebackers, corners and safeties to give mercurial Santana Moss more man-to-man coverage or make room for Cooley's new, deeper pass routes. Once the defense is spread, Portis' chances of gashing them with breakaway runs would increase dramatically.
The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.
"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant. "Everyone knows what Brandon can do on the football field, his speed, the acrobatic catches. With Randle El, it's what he can do in the slot, the double moves, his cutting ability. Getting them really expanded the offense."
You are casting pearls before swine I'm afraid.
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:28 AM   #35
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

If he shows improvement during the season I think they should look at extendinig him as long as the price is right.
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:02 AM   #36
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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If he shows improvement during the season I think they should look at extendinig him as long as the price is right.
I agree.
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:29 AM   #37
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

Honestly I don't think I have seen enough from JC to call him the long-term solution just yet. He still has a few kinks that need to be worked out, and most importantly he needs to win. I say we wait at least another year before we extend on JC.
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Old 05-24-2008, 03:53 AM   #38
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

The impression I've gotten from the Redskins community is that theres three main views on Jason.

1. Jason Campbell sucks and ended up being a waste of a 1st round pick, Colt Brenen/Todd Collins is the future
2. Jason Campbell is like, the best Quarterback in the NFL
3. Jason Campbell is still developing but he's going to be good

I'm obviously fall under the third group, and why not? QB's take a while to develop and a 77 QB rating for a QB in his second year as a starter isn't bad at all. Of course I would have loved to see Campbell hit 85, but theres still a chance this year with an improved offense and a great QB coach for JC to take the next step in his development. Personally I think theres a good amount of teams around the league that would like to have JC as their starting QB. He probably won't end up being Peyton Manning, but he seems to be developing at a rate where he will have a nice long career in this league.
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:47 PM   #39
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
The impression I've gotten from the Redskins community is that theres three main views on Jason.

1. Jason Campbell sucks and ended up being a waste of a 1st round pick, Colt Brenen/Todd Collins is the future
2. Jason Campbell is like, the best Quarterback in the NFL
3. Jason Campbell is still developing but he's going to be good

I'm obviously fall under the third group, and why not? QB's take a while to develop and a 77 QB rating for a QB in his second year as a starter isn't bad at all. Of course I would have loved to see Campbell hit 85, but theres still a chance this year with an improved offense and a great QB coach for JC to take the next step in his development. Personally I think theres a good amount of teams around the league that would like to have JC as their starting QB. He probably won't end up being Peyton Manning, but he seems to be developing at a rate where he will have a nice long career in this league.
Right now I would put myself in the 1 catagory above. It looks like Jason Campbell will be a bust just like the other Quarterbacks in his class (Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers). His QB rating, # of wins and game losing interceptions tell the story pretty well. However, we should give him one last shot and see what he can do as the starter for the entire season. Remember Eli Manning look like a bust early in his career but in year four he helped lead his team to the Super Bowl and win it. Jason Campbell is now in his fourth year just like Manning was when he won.
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Old 05-26-2008, 01:34 PM   #40
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

I'm more inclined to say no. As much as I hope that Jason is the answer at qb, he has yet to instill that confidence at the position. This is his 4th year to show massive improvement from years past. Barring any injury he should be given every opportuntiy to do well. But, it depends on him, he killed us at the end of games with untimely ints., and that does nothing to prove to your teamates that you can come from behind and win games. He also needs to manage games better, and hopefully with a new coaching philosyphy that can be done. This season will be a litmus test for him and others.
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Old 05-26-2008, 02:23 PM   #41
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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not to mention jc's been on the opposite spectrum of that, hes had a different offense to learn 7 years
I think that storyline is overplayed. The guy can either do it or not. There shouldn't be a qualifier excuse if he doesn't pan out. Either the guy can adapt to his surroundings or not.

Any professional quarterback should have certain intangibles that he can bring to any offense. He's getting paid a professional salary, he should be able to adapt without excuses.

I've never heard Campbell complain about it himself and I don't like idea of people making exuses on his behalf.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:47 PM   #42
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME View Post
Please learn to comprehend, the comparison of the offenses was to show the similarities between Gibbs, and Saunders so to rule out the new offense excuse that is constantly used for Campbell, it wasnt a drastically changed new offense, every coach will have variations on how a specific offense is run, but the foundation of the offense is the same. JUST LIKE THE WCO OFFENSE WHICH IS A BASIC PHILOSOPHY BUT VARIES FROM COACH TO COACH.

Who cares why Collins was starting? He did, and he ran the offense far beyond anything we have seen from Campbell, and Collins is a nobody in the realm of NFL QB's. Which brings us back to Campbells ability to run an NFL offense efficiently, and he hasn't so far.



So when did Campbell put up 35 points? But I guess you have figured out that it was all the WR's fault, the same WR's who actually started to produce when Collins took over.

It sounds to me like you have Campbell figured out to be something more than he has shown, he is what he is, a 4th year QB who has performed so far very sub par.

When did Collins put up 35 points? He had 5 TD in four games. The Giants game he had zero TD's. You have a QB with a 102 rating only putting up only 5 TD in four games? Look at Brady, Manning, and even Romo. They have put up 4 TDs in one game. Lets be real the offense was horrible last year. The play calling was horrible whether Collins or Campbell was in the game.

I don't think Sammy was just blaming the WR's. I think he was saying Campbell had a lot of help with those seven losses.

Also the WR's were healthy when they played with Collins.

Also Campbell wasn't the only skins QB who struggled with Saunders offense, Brunell struggled also.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:09 AM   #43
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME View Post
Just more excuses, bottom line, Collins moved the ball and Campbell couldn't, and your really not helping campbells cause with the Brunell comparisons.
Dude, why don't you just start your own semi-pro franchise. You can send the Danny a 50 million dollar check to sell the rights to a 37 yr old QB, and then you can pay him like ten million dollars a year to be the cornerstone of your team.

I'm sure you'd be very successful.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:14 AM   #44
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Just more excuses, bottom line, Collins moved the ball and Campbell couldn't, and your really not helping campbells cause with the Brunell comparisons.
I did some homework to see if your opinion held any water and this is what I came up with.

In Campbell's 13 starts he averaged 217.4 yards passing per game. The offense as a whole averaged 358 yards per game during that time.

As for Collins in his 4 regular season games he averaged 213.5 yards passing per game. Meanwhile the offense averaged 343 yards per game during that time.

The biggest discrepancy came in points per game. Campbell averaged 17.6 (slightly skewed due to 0 points scored in the game vs. Chicago when he went down) in the lineup while Collins averaged 26.3. I'm guessing a good reason for this could have been more aggressive playcalling in the redzone when Collins was in the lineup.

But other than that your opinion that Campbell couldn't move the ball doesn't really make sense. He was clearly able to move the ball slightly better than Collins, but it appears that Collins was more effective at getting the ball into the end zone. Again, perhaps a function of the playcalling in the redzone.
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:23 PM   #45
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Can anyone here see the difference in our offense between the 2?

More aggressive play calling? Come on! Who you kidding, I can't believe the excuses being laid out for Campbell, it's every ones fault but him, so what if he moved the ball outside the red zone [occasionally] stats can get awfully scewed as well, bottom line our offense was playing with confidence under Collins, not with Campbell, does anyone really think we make the playoffs last season if Campbell doesn't go down?
I thought it was pretty obvious that the playcalling was more aggressive with Collins in the lineup and rightfully so. He knew the offense inside and out, while Campbell was in his 2nd season in it.

If it wasn't playcalling then what was it? Because the stats simply don't support your claim that JC couldn't move the ball.
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