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Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Old 05-22-2008, 10:39 PM   #31
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME View Post
How does one point correlate with the other?

I fail to see your point, a coach was fired, and one probably retired because they couldn't get anything out of this kid, Gibbs put all his eggs in one basket with Campbell and it was obvious he couldn't run a complex system like Gibbs, and Saunders wanted, so of coarse the way to go is a much more simplified system in the WCO. It's pretty obvious that Zorn, and Saunders have two different philosophy's, but that doesn't excuse Campbells inability to comprehend the latter. If Gibbs new he had a QB that would make his life easy I doubt he would have retired, but I believe he new he was pushing a boulder up a hill with Campbell and at his age it was just to much for him with everything else he had going on.

And I do think you are incorrect on Saunders firing, he wasn't let go because he wasnt a Zorn guy, he was let go to be replaced by Zorn who was later promoted to head coach because the organization had deceided to try a different approach with Campbell in the WCO.
You're so far out there with your "theories" that it's not even worth debating.

Do you know offiss?
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:52 AM   #32
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
There were many problems last year on offense, IMO a great deal of them were due to coaching issues and playcalling (Gibbs & Saunders not being 100% on the same page). Your statement is a HUGE reach to say Gibbs retired and Saunders was fired over Campbell. It's ridiculous.

I really take offense to folks implying that Campbell is dumb and can't comprehend the offense. The kid has learned a new offense almost every year for the last 7 years. If he was such an idiot Brunell or Collins would've been starting, not him. Let's also not forget he had a rookie QB coach (Lazor). I would love to see what you folks knocking Campbell's intelligence would score on the Wonderlic. I would also love to see the same folks stand in the pocket, make decisions that need to be made in under 2 seconds, (many in under a second) and try to deliver a football with 4 or more 250lb+ world-class athletes trying to rip your head off every play.

Get off the "Campbell is dumb" thing. If you want to question his accuracy or possibly his decison-making under pressure, those are fair criticisms. But the whole Campbell is dumb thing is just flat-out wrong.

And as far as Saunders goes, he was brought in to make the offense produce and it didn't. He is also the guy who lobbied hard for Brandon Lloyd and ARE (I like ARE, but we overpaid and expected too much from him). After these two mistakes and the offense struggling I would say his credibility was pretty much shot. I don't believe a different approach for Campbell is what got him fired.
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If he was such an idiot Brunell or Collins would've been starting, not him.
Brunell and Collins have started 2/3 of the games since he arrived???? the question has been how couldn't Campbell get on the field with the likes of Brunell in front of him doing absolutely nothing, or the fact that a career backup in his late 30's comes in and moves the ball up and down the field, while Campbells previous best efforts left our offense stagnated? Sorry but 3 years in the league is more than enough time to learn whatever you have to, he had 3 years under Gibbs who runs the same basic offense as Saunders, it's like the WCO, it varies from coach to coach but the same basic principals.

Now ARE is a Saunders guy? Come on all Gibbs could talk about is how he had to get that guy because of how he killed us when we played Pitt, personally I like ARE and glad to have him on board, Lloyd? I guess Saunders had a lot of say in personnel? Although all his lobbying and influence within the organization couldn't get his guy Collins on the field now could it?
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:55 AM   #33
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by Defensewins View Post
Not to sound rude, but you or I have no idea why Gibbs retired.
There many different theories why he retired, but only Joe Gibbs and his wife know the real reason. Least of which is Jason Campbell.
one of his grandkids had cancer and he wanted to be there cause he already missed so much of his life. he was also happier with the freedom of time nascar ownership gives him, and the ease with which he can incorporate his family there (ie grandkids playing in his office while he works).
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:19 AM   #34
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME View Post
Brunell and Collins have started 2/3 of the games since he arrived???? the question has been how couldn't Campbell get on the field with the likes of Brunell in front of him doing absolutely nothing, or the fact that a career backup in his late 30's comes in and moves the ball up and down the field, while Campbells previous best efforts left our offense stagnated? Sorry but 3 years in the league is more than enough time to learn whatever you have to, he had 3 years under Gibbs who runs the same basic offense as Saunders, it's like the WCO, it varies from coach to coach but the same basic principals.

Now ARE is a Saunders guy? Come on all Gibbs could talk about is how he had to get that guy because of how he killed us when we played Pitt, personally I like ARE and glad to have him on board, Lloyd? I guess Saunders had a lot of say in personnel? Although all his lobbying and influence within the organization couldn't get his guy Collins on the field now could it?
i think you're vastly mis-remembering last year.

the whole offense stunk, portis and moss were having issues, as was the OL, and they were adjusting to saunders playbook still.

after everyone got on the same page it worked a little better.

everyone wants to win, so i'm not sure what all these smoking man conspiracy theories are really for...
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:35 AM   #35
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Montgomery, I can see...the other 2 are easily replaced and none are pressing issues right now...
The cost risk of a breakout season for these 3 vs JC is significant.

The benefit of extending Campbell before a breakout saves a tremendous amount more than a breakout for these guys....and there is still flop potential for Golson and Doughty.
I agree with the extending of Monty, but Doughty and Golston don't need to be extended before the end of the season. Campbell is probably more of a wait and see approach. If he succeeds we will definitly frontload his contract with a huge signing bonus.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:52 AM   #36
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by HOGTIMUS PRIME View Post
Brunell and Collins have started 2/3 of the games since he arrived???? the question has been how couldn't Campbell get on the field with the likes of Brunell in front of him doing absolutely nothing, or the fact that a career backup in his late 30's comes in and moves the ball up and down the field, while Campbells previous best efforts left our offense stagnated? Sorry but 3 years in the league is more than enough time to learn whatever you have to, he had 3 years under Gibbs who runs the same basic offense as Saunders, it's like the WCO, it varies from coach to coach but the same basic principals.

Now ARE is a Saunders guy? Come on all Gibbs could talk about is how he had to get that guy because of how he killed us when we played Pitt, personally I like ARE and glad to have him on board, Lloyd? I guess Saunders had a lot of say in personnel? Although all his lobbying and influence within the organization couldn't get his guy Collins on the field now could it?
Your statements make you sound like a typical uneducated fan. The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).

Collins only started due to JC's injury. Gibbs traditionally doesn't start rookie QBs, so the first year JC really had little to no chance to see the field other than by injury. So your statement about Brunell/Collins starting 2/3 of the games since Campbell has been here, while close to factually accurate, doesn't paint the correct picture.

Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.

Lloyd and ARE were both Saunders guys.

NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

"The free agents had to be able to get deep, to draw enough attention from linebackers, corners and safeties to give mercurial Santana Moss more man-to-man coverage or make room for Cooley's new, deeper pass routes. Once the defense is spread, Portis' chances of gashing them with breakaway runs would increase dramatically.
The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.
"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant. "Everyone knows what Brandon can do on the football field, his speed, the acrobatic catches. With Randle El, it's what he can do in the slot, the double moves, his cutting ability. Getting them really expanded the offense."
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:01 AM   #37
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Your statements make you sound like a typical uneducated fan. The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).

Collins only started due to JC's injury. Gibbs traditionally doesn't start rookie QBs, so the first year JC really had little to no chance to see the field other than by injury. So your statement about Brunell/Collins starting 2/3 of the games since Campbell has been here, while close to factually accurate, doesn't paint the correct picture.

Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.

Lloyd and ARE were both Saunders guys.

NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

"The free agents had to be able to get deep, to draw enough attention from linebackers, corners and safeties to give mercurial Santana Moss more man-to-man coverage or make room for Cooley's new, deeper pass routes. Once the defense is spread, Portis' chances of gashing them with breakaway runs would increase dramatically.
The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.
"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant. "Everyone knows what Brandon can do on the football field, his speed, the acrobatic catches. With Randle El, it's what he can do in the slot, the double moves, his cutting ability. Getting them really expanded the offense."
You are casting pearls before swine I'm afraid.
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:28 AM   #38
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

If he shows improvement during the season I think they should look at extendinig him as long as the price is right.
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:02 AM   #39
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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If he shows improvement during the season I think they should look at extendinig him as long as the price is right.
I agree.
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:29 AM   #40
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

Honestly I don't think I have seen enough from JC to call him the long-term solution just yet. He still has a few kinks that need to be worked out, and most importantly he needs to win. I say we wait at least another year before we extend on JC.
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Old 05-24-2008, 03:53 AM   #41
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

The impression I've gotten from the Redskins community is that theres three main views on Jason.

1. Jason Campbell sucks and ended up being a waste of a 1st round pick, Colt Brenen/Todd Collins is the future
2. Jason Campbell is like, the best Quarterback in the NFL
3. Jason Campbell is still developing but he's going to be good

I'm obviously fall under the third group, and why not? QB's take a while to develop and a 77 QB rating for a QB in his second year as a starter isn't bad at all. Of course I would have loved to see Campbell hit 85, but theres still a chance this year with an improved offense and a great QB coach for JC to take the next step in his development. Personally I think theres a good amount of teams around the league that would like to have JC as their starting QB. He probably won't end up being Peyton Manning, but he seems to be developing at a rate where he will have a nice long career in this league.
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Old 05-24-2008, 05:40 AM   #42
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33 View Post
Your statements make you sound like a typical uneducated fan. The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).

Collins only started due to JC's injury. Gibbs traditionally doesn't start rookie QBs, so the first year JC really had little to no chance to see the field other than by injury. So your statement about Brunell/Collins starting 2/3 of the games since Campbell has been here, while close to factually accurate, doesn't paint the correct picture.

Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.

Lloyd and ARE were both Saunders guys.

NFL Preview: Al Saunders on the attack for Redskins | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

"The free agents had to be able to get deep, to draw enough attention from linebackers, corners and safeties to give mercurial Santana Moss more man-to-man coverage or make room for Cooley's new, deeper pass routes. Once the defense is spread, Portis' chances of gashing them with breakaway runs would increase dramatically.
The two players Saunders thought offered the best chance to make that happen: San Francisco's Brandon Lloyd and Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El. In mid-March, Washington traded for Lloyd and signed Randle El.
"He pushed hard for them," said Bob Saunders, Al's son and a Redskins assistant. "Everyone knows what Brandon can do on the football field, his speed, the acrobatic catches. With Randle El, it's what he can do in the slot, the double moves, his cutting ability. Getting them really expanded the offense."
Quote:
Gibbs and Saunders offenses come from the "Air Coryell" tree. The Air Coryell and WCO are not similar at all.
Please learn to comprehend, the comparison of the offenses was to show the similarities between Gibbs, and Saunders so to rule out the new offense excuse that is constantly used for Campbell, it wasnt a drastically changed new offense, every coach will have variations on how a specific offense is run, but the foundation of the offense is the same. JUST LIKE THE WCO OFFENSE WHICH IS A BASIC PHILOSOPHY BUT VARIES FROM COACH TO COACH.

Who cares why Collins was starting? He did, and he ran the offense far beyond anything we have seen from Campbell, and Collins is a nobody in the realm of NFL QB's. Which brings us back to Campbells ability to run an NFL offense efficiently, and he hasn't so far.

Quote:
The offense struggles so it must be the QBs fault. The offense puts up 35 points...it must be the "great QB". Unless of course Campbell is the QB, then he's just dumb (sarcasm).
So when did Campbell put up 35 points? But I guess you have figured out that it was all the WR's fault, the same WR's who actually started to produce when Collins took over.

It sounds to me like you have Campbell figured out to be something more than he has shown, he is what he is, a 4th year QB who has performed so far very sub par.
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:47 PM   #43
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

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Originally Posted by Dirtbag359 View Post
The impression I've gotten from the Redskins community is that theres three main views on Jason.

1. Jason Campbell sucks and ended up being a waste of a 1st round pick, Colt Brenen/Todd Collins is the future
2. Jason Campbell is like, the best Quarterback in the NFL
3. Jason Campbell is still developing but he's going to be good

I'm obviously fall under the third group, and why not? QB's take a while to develop and a 77 QB rating for a QB in his second year as a starter isn't bad at all. Of course I would have loved to see Campbell hit 85, but theres still a chance this year with an improved offense and a great QB coach for JC to take the next step in his development. Personally I think theres a good amount of teams around the league that would like to have JC as their starting QB. He probably won't end up being Peyton Manning, but he seems to be developing at a rate where he will have a nice long career in this league.
Right now I would put myself in the 1 catagory above. It looks like Jason Campbell will be a bust just like the other Quarterbacks in his class (Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers). His QB rating, # of wins and game losing interceptions tell the story pretty well. However, we should give him one last shot and see what he can do as the starter for the entire season. Remember Eli Manning look like a bust early in his career but in year four he helped lead his team to the Super Bowl and win it. Jason Campbell is now in his fourth year just like Manning was when he won.
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:17 PM   #44
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

To be fair collins has been in saunders offense for what? 7 years or so?
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:18 PM   #45
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Re: Time to extend Jason Campbell?

not to mention jc's been on the opposite spectrum of that, hes had a different offense to learn 7 years
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