Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James

skinsfan69 · 05-27-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Let's recap:

If he doesn't make our 53 man roster, we don't give up any picks/compensation to the Vikings.

If he doesn't make our 53 man roster, we don't carry any salary cap charge. If he makes the team, we're only responsible for his $1 million base salary this season, which is non-guaranteed.

After signing rookies, we will have $4-5 million in cap space. So if he beats out a Ryan Boschetti or an Alex Buzbee and makes the team, salary cap space will not be an issue.

So... what exactly is the downside here? Nothing. You either got yourself some DE depth with upside, or you say bye bye to him and you've still got the same personnel (and draft picks) you had yesterday.

Will it change our season, almost certainly not. But there's no downside at all.

Great post! Now everyone can calm down. Very good move by the FO IMO. The rewards totally outweighs the risk.

GTripp0012 · 05-28-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIGGO/NYC

huh, actually I have more than 10 posts, but please do not refer to this passing of time as a carreer. But back to my point, this trade should have been done for a nickle, instead of a washed out pass rusher. I know some idiot is going to say washed out is inaccurate, due to his age of 25, but he is washed out and will do absolutely nothing with the skins. Just to show you how stupid this front office is, he will make the team, costing us a 7th rounder and have no more than 2 sacks. This is Jerome Mathis all over again, but at least Mathis was the vet min and did not cost a pick potentially.

He's making 1 million.

Do you know how much the 'vet min' is? It's going to be between 650,000-800,000 this season.

Or just a hair under 1 million, which is what James is making.

GTripp0012 · 05-28-2008, 12:20 AM

That makes sense, and there is an inherent risk in this deal: oppertunity cost. If James makes the team, the coaches are going to have to play him. If his injury causes him to lose effectiveness, he's going to hurt our defense.

Our coaching staff is going to have to be very careful with him. If he's not going to be a key contributor, we have to release him at the end of the preseason.

Still, a wonderful value deal for the front office.

SmootSmack · 05-28-2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Thanks for the kudos.

I'm thinking it honestly wouldn't matter if the guy makes $2.5 million this year (he doesn't, he makes $1.0). We're going to have plenty of cap space going into this season, he could make starting DE money and we'd have no problem carrying it. You would theoretically only lose out on the opportunity to sign someone else to an extension to make use of that space, or lose out on the opportunity to bolster next year's cap limit by playing with incentives for your current players. But other than that, the guy could make a buttoad and it wouldn't matter, as long as he fits under our cap. Which is no problem.

The way I see it, Vinny saw this as an opportunity to get a guy who played for one of the coaches who sees talent in the guy, with nothing to lose from a cap standpoint, with little to lose from a pick standpoint, and who could potentially add depth. It's not hard to understand from my perspective, the bottom line is:

- James is talented
- James is always injured
- Who knows how James will look in camp
- If he looks good and healthy, a 7th rounder and $1.0 million is a small price to pay for a young hungry talented DE
- If he looks hurt/crappy, you cut him and lose nothing

No brainer. Good move.

Good points. Let's just hope that if he does look/get hurt that it happens in July and not in early October.

That Guy · 05-28-2008, 01:25 AM

7th is only spent if he makes the team. we had to go that route, or else we'd be late enough in the waiver line that someone else would take him.

and yeah, we do pick up his rookie salary this way (minus bonus money) to the tune of $1mill this year... though technically we could redo it to a min deal, i doubt he'd be super willing to take the cut.

that $1mill and the 7th give the current DEs the upper hand as to who makes the roster, since the skins won't want to spend that on a guy with injury history if he hasn't shown anything this preseason.

That Guy · 05-28-2008, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsnut

That, my friend, depends on how much we are paying him.
I say...1 sack for every 150k...for example, if we are paying him 600k...he better give us 4 sacks

so for 1.5mill we get 10 sacks? for 3mill we get 20? that's the best value ever :P

i mean, there's not a single team that'd pass on paying a DE 16$mill a year if he got 32 sacks every season (and that's over three times your retail sack value).

the problem, of course, is that the NFL sacks for cash equation isn't linear by any means.

also, such a thing would be a bit shortsighted, since, by that standard, making 8 game winning tackles while having 0 sacks would be a failure to attain value...

Dirtbag59 · 05-28-2008, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

so for 1.5mill we get 10 sacks? for 3mill we get 20? that's the best value ever :P

i mean, there's not a single team that'd pass on paying a DE 16$mill a year if he got 32 sacks every season (and that's over three times your retail sack value).

the problem, of course, is that the NFL sacks for cash equation isn't linear by any means.

also, such a thing would be a bit shortsighted, since, by that standard, making 8 game winning tackles while having 0 sacks would be a failure to attain value...

And by that rational theres little incentive to play the run, since the players livlihood would be based on how many sacks he got.

GTripp0012 · 05-28-2008, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

And by that rational theres little incentive to play the run, since the players livlihood would be based on how many sacks he got.

It--quite literally--"wouldn't be in his contract".

gibbsisgod · 05-28-2008, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I remember this guy coming out of Wisconsin a few years ago and he was a monster. But he hasn't been able to do much of anything since he turned pro and there is a reason Minn basically cut the guy. Good pass rushing DE's in the NFL don't get cut or traded for 7th round draft picks if they're any good. I just don't think this guy can play at the NFL level.

Yeah, his name is Jared Allen.

freddyg12 · 05-28-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Courtney Penn meet Norman Einstein

Where's the "H" in Courtney Penn (or Courtney Brown for that matter)?

Glad you have a sense of humor

damn, this just ain't my thread! I guess I meant to say that the 't' on my keyboard is sticking.

As for other Penns, there was Schoonie (sp?) Penn, pretty good point guard at Ohio State some years back.

I remember now that C. Brown was taken #1 overall as has been pointed out, glad that he was. good point about Vanden Bosch that someone made. That would be sweet if James gets his game back in that fashion.

SmootSmack · 05-28-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Great post! Now everyone can calm down. Very good move by the FO IMO. The rewards totally outweighs the risk.

What changed your mind?

http://www.thewarpath.net/450221-post68.html (Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James)

The "conditional" part?

SC Skins Fan · 05-28-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What changed your mind?

http://www.thewarpath.net/450221-post68.html (Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James)

The "conditional" part?

Just wanted to hedge his bets in case James plays well.

Schneed10 · 05-28-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Good points. Let's just hope that if he does look/get hurt that it happens in July and not in early October.

Even if it does happen in October, I'm thinking we still haven't lost that much. If James makes the team, who's the last DL to get cut? Boschetti? Buzbee?

I'm thinking either one of those players are likely to be eagerly ready to answer the phone should we call in October, because I don't think either of them are likely to be picked up by other NFL teams.

Should that scenario come about, all we lose is the 7th round pick. And considering how hard it is for 7th round picks to make your team in the first place, it's still worth the shot (IMO), even in this October injury scenario.

J. Spanky · 05-28-2008, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveo395

Erasmus James' career has been very similar to the beginning of Kyle Vanden Bosch's career, who is a pro bowler now. Vanden Bosch was a second round pick of the cardinals, who tore 2 ACLs and an MCL in his first 3 seasons and got cut after his 4th season(2004). Then in 2005, the Titans picked him up for the vet minimum and he started all 16 games and got 12.5 sacks.

James was a first round pick who tore 3 knee ligaments in his first three seasons and now he got traded to the Redskins to try to resurrect his career. It might take all of this year to get healthy, but it is definitely possible for him to come back and play very well. I'm not saying he is gonna be a pro bowler like Vanden Bosch, but it is possible. It has been done before.

Kyle Vanden Bosch
Erasmus James

excellent post. i would only add that vanden bosch has one advantage that james, to all our dismay, does not - a highly disruptive force playing next to him.

hail_2_da_skins · 05-28-2008, 09:30 AM

This trade wasn't even worth mentioning. James was cut by the Vikings because he failed his physical. He had an ACL injury and a torn MCL. He re-injured the ACL. The Skins gave up their last draft pick in 2009 on the condition that this guy can pass a physical. I doubt very seriously if he will play for the Skins.

05-28-2008, 12:20 AM	#93
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Age: 25 Posts: 15,152	Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James That makes sense, and there is an inherent risk in this deal: oppertunity cost. If James makes the team, the coaches are going to have to play him. If his injury causes him to lose effectiveness, he's going to hurt our defense. Our coaching staff is going to have to be very careful with him. If he's not going to be a key contributor, we have to release him at the end of the preseason. Still, a wonderful value deal for the front office. __________________ Shanahan: “The bad thing is he's [Sav Rocca] probably our best offensive weapon and that’s not good.”

05-28-2008, 01:25 AM	#95
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 30 Posts: 15,644	Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James 7th is only spent if he makes the team. we had to go that route, or else we'd be late enough in the waiver line that someone else would take him. and yeah, we do pick up his rookie salary this way (minus bonus money) to the tune of $1mill this year... though technically we could redo it to a min deal, i doubt he'd be super willing to take the cut. that $1mill and the 7th give the current DEs the upper hand as to who makes the roster, since the skins won't want to spend that on a guy with injury history if he hasn't shown anything this preseason. __________________ Who says shameless self promotion is stupid? oh yeah, that was me... Click For Tunes!

05-28-2008, 09:30 AM	#105
hail_2_da_skins Impact Rookie Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: St. Louis, MO Age: 57 Posts: 862	Re: Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James This trade wasn't even worth mentioning. James was cut by the Vikings because he failed his physical. He had an ACL injury and a torn MCL. He re-injured the ACL. The Skins gave up their last draft pick in 2009 on the condition that this guy can pass a physical. I doubt very seriously if he will play for the Skins. __________________ "HAIL TO THE SKINS"

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Updated: Redskins Trade for Vikings DE Erasmus James

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