How do you feel about Shawn Springs?

freddyg12 · 06-07-2008, 03:14 PM

In ideal circumstances, SS would be a nickel back & finish his career as such. Due to injuries & that Rogers wasn't there yet while healthy (though he made progress) he's our best cb. Of course he can't stay w/the best recievers 1 on 1 all game, but he played well in the cover 2 & at the end of the year he played really well man to man until the seattle game.

Dirtbag359 · 06-07-2008, 10:48 PM

How do I feel about Shawn Springs? Pretty good. According to KC Joyner the football scientist the Redskins had the second lowest YPA against their starting corners last year, in this case Smoot/Springs, who according to the article only allowed 5.9 Yards Per Attempt.

Ironically our good friends over in Denver (Bailey/Bly) had the 8th highest yards per attempt at 8.4 YPA. In fact read for yourselves

The worst

Champ Bailey/Dre' Bly: The buzz going into the 2007 season was that Bailey and Bly might be the best starting battery around, but it didn't turn out anywhere near that way. A lot of this poor performance was on Bly's shoulders, as evidenced by his 8.8 YPA, but Bailey has to take some of blame as well. His 7.8 YPA was his worst since 2005. Both will have to improve if Denver's defense is going to see a turnaround in 2008.

WaldSkins · 06-07-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunn.scott

I think Springs is a good mentor to the youth we have in the secondary.

If Springs was a good mentor for the "youth", he'd be at OTA's helping the new DB's, not training alone in Arizona. Yea he's a good corner, but he's not what i would call a mentor.

over the mountain · 06-07-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

"Springs is still regarded as the team's top corner, and his ability to play the nickel position in their sub-package makes him critical member of their defense. However, opponents have noticed that the former Pro Bowler's skills have started to slip and few regard him as a top corner in the league."

Writing was on wall for Henry - Bucky Brooks - SI.com

IMO Brooks is taking the worst observations of Springs and trying to make them the status quo. While Springs was a step slower last year I thought his skill level looked at or near its peak. Also, I think Brooks is way off in assuming Springs is disgruntled. He spent last year in AZ getting into tip-top shape and it showed last season as he stayed healthy. Who's to say he isn't taking the same approach this year? Also, w/ the tragic circumstances surrounding his father it wouldn't surprise me if Springs is spending as much time w/ his family as he can.

I'm still a Springs fan (obvious, isn't it) and I think we're a better defense when he is on the field. Though his presence during the off-season would be good for the rooks especially I think it makes little difference for Shawn. We've heard Blache say again and again the defense will be simpler, and Shawn flourished even in Williams' complex schemes.

Thoughts?

yes springs is our best corner, yes injuries and age have probaly slowed him but we all know this but i think the writer makes a valid observation: springs is unhappy or distancing himself from the organization. some of you might think "if he shows up sunday and plays well thats all you can ask of him" but i dont think he has even come close to taking his job on this team seriously. we need guys, especially high paid vets, to be 100% on board and setting an example for others to follow. even though he grew up in md and said all these nice things when he first came here he is not a true skin or leader. i dont think you consistently win in the nfl when your leaders arent fully committed to the team. that being said, i am sure his fathers health has rightfully distracted him and put this game in proper perspective as to what really matters in life.

i also think moss isnt fully committed ever since that memorable cowboys game where portis said he saw moss sulking on the bench before the big comeback and asked him whats wrong. moss complained that they (gibbs) wasnt running the plays they practiced all week. if a player doesnt believe his coach is giving them the best chance to win he might just go on autopilot, going thru the motions. we won that game on brunnel and moss' shoulders but i dont think 2 catches changed his perception or attitude. maybe with gibbs gone moss might develop confidence in zorn and the teams chances of success.

there seems to be a different way fletcher, sellers, the o line and cooley approach the game versus moss and springs. moss and springs are great players but i dont think we will ever really win when some of our top players at important positions dont give it their all mentally and physically.

i like springs and moss and they produce for us but i think they also hold us back by holding top spots on our team but not giving us their all when their spots could be held by similarly talented and committed players.

rant over. go skins!

Paintrain · 06-08-2008, 12:16 AM

Springs is good, not great. In a division with CB such as Newman, Samuel and if he stays clean, Pac Man, we are lagging in what some other teams have to offer. If (big if) he stays healthy for 16 games then he's in the top 15 in the league..

The Goat · 06-08-2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

How do I feel about Shawn Springs? Pretty good. According to KC Joyner the football scientist the Redskins had the second lowest YPA against their starting corners last year, in this case Smoot/Springs, who according to the article only allowed 5.9 Yards Per Attempt.

Ironically our good friends over in Denver (Bailey/Bly) had the 8th highest yards per attempt at 8.4 YPA. In fact read for yourselves

The worst

Champ Bailey/Dre' Bly: The buzz going into the 2007 season was that Bailey and Bly might be the best starting battery around, but it didn't turn out anywhere near that way. A lot of this poor performance was on Bly's shoulders, as evidenced by his 8.8 YPA, but Bailey has to take some of blame as well. His 7.8 YPA was his worst since 2005. Both will have to improve if Denver's defense is going to see a turnaround in 2008.

Thanks for the FYI dirtbag.

5.9 is impressive and I think it shows that this group plays well together. Individually I don't see any of them as elite corners but together we could probably say they've overachieved. What I'm wondering is how much of that achievement was the madscience coming from GW and his many packages.

GTripp0012 · 06-08-2008, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

How do I feel about Shawn Springs? Pretty good. According to KC Joyner the football scientist the Redskins had the second lowest YPA against their starting corners last year, in this case Smoot/Springs, who according to the article only allowed 5.9 Yards Per Attempt.

Ironically our good friends over in Denver (Bailey/Bly) had the 8th highest yards per attempt at 8.4 YPA. In fact read for yourselves

The worst

Champ Bailey/Dre' Bly: The buzz going into the 2007 season was that Bailey and Bly might be the best starting battery around, but it didn't turn out anywhere near that way. A lot of this poor performance was on Bly's shoulders, as evidenced by his 8.8 YPA, but Bailey has to take some of blame as well. His 7.8 YPA was his worst since 2005. Both will have to improve if Denver's defense is going to see a turnaround in 2008.

Smoot was insane last year. Probably not happening again, but he's a very solid man corner. Those type of corners are immensely valuable to a defense.

GTripp0012 · 06-08-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

Thanks for the FYI dirtbag.

5.9 is impressive and I think it shows that this group plays well together. Individually I don't see any of them as elite corners but together we could probably say they've overachieved. What I'm wondering is how much of that achievement was the madscience coming from GW and his many packages.

Madscience? Probably none. Knowing when his defensive talent was going to dominate the opponent and gameplanning accordingly was a tribute to his hard study and student of the game attitude, and benefitted all sides of the ball.

Don't forget though that since 2006, Gregg Williams led two defenses that were the worst defense on third down each of those years. That's something I guarentee that Greg Blache will correct this year. This team will be much improved on third down defense, if nothing else.

The Goat · 06-08-2008, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Smoot was insane last year. Probably not happening again, but he's a very solid man corner. Those type of corners are immensely valuable to a defense.

Smooty also got better and as the season progressed IMO. I don't see why he won't pick up right where he left off.

GTripp0012 · 06-08-2008, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

Smooty also got better and as the season progressed IMO. I don't see why he won't pick up right where he left off.

He was awful in a different scheme in Minnesota.

I mean, yeah, he's better in our scheme, but his true skill level lies somewhere in between last year, and his Love Boat years.

The Goat · 06-08-2008, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

He was awful in a different scheme in Minnesota.

I mean, yeah, he's better in our scheme, but his true skill level lies somewhere in between last year, and his Love Boat years.

Well, I'm still giving Smooty the benefit of the doubt. He didn't even make a slew of interceptions last year like when he first came to Washington. Last year he got back to form on great coverage - this year he'll pick up where he left off and i bet we'll see him get more picks too. I'm right and that's all there is too it!

The Goat · 06-08-2008, 02:41 AM

Since we're off the topic of Springs absence anyway - what is the consensus on Leigh Torrence? I keep expecting him to jump in and make some noise because GW called him the quickest/fastest guy on the team at one point. W/ big-time speed, avg speed, and some extra coaching shouldn't this kid be in the mix on some cover packages?

GMScud · 06-08-2008, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Goat

Since we're off the topic of Springs absence anyway - what is the consensus on Leigh Torrence? I keep expecting him to jump in and make some noise because GW called him the quickest/fastest guy on the team at one point. W/ big-time speed, avg speed, and some extra coaching shouldn't this kid be in the mix on some cover packages?

Apparently he's an up and comer. He played well in nickel and as a backup last year. He's young and will be a contributor. Not a starter, but definitely someone to keep an eye on. He was in the mix last year, and I think we'll see him some this year as well.

freddyg12 · 06-09-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMScud

Apparently he's an up and comer. He played well in nickel and as a backup last year. He's young and will be a contributor. Not a starter, but definitely someone to keep an eye on. He was in the mix last year, and I think we'll see him some this year as well.

Torrence looked pretty out of place when he got extended time last year. I hope his problems are technique related & can be corrected w/time & coaching. If not, it's a matter of time before his roster spot is taken, whether this year or next.

GMScud · 06-09-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Torrence looked pretty out of place when he got extended time last year. I hope his problems are technique related & can be corrected w/time & coaching. If not, it's a matter of time before his roster spot is taken, whether this year or next.

I remember reading that Jerry Gray and the secondary coaches were very happy with the way he progressed throughout the season. Apparently he's one of the fastest guys on the team, but raw. If he continues to learn and be coachable, I think he can be a serviceable backup for us.

06-07-2008, 03:14 PM	#16 (permalink)
freddyg12 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,109	Re: How do you feel about Shawn Springs? In ideal circumstances, SS would be a nickel back & finish his career as such. Due to injuries & that Rogers wasn't there yet while healthy (though he made progress) he's our best cb. Of course he can't stay w/the best recievers 1 on 1 all game, but he played well in the cover 2 & at the end of the year he played really well man to man until the seattle game.

06-07-2008, 10:48 PM	#17 (permalink)
Dirtbag359 The Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Atlanta, Georgia From: Silver Spring, Maryland Posts: 2,187	Re: How do you feel about Shawn Springs? How do I feel about Shawn Springs? Pretty good. According to KC Joyner the football scientist the Redskins had the second lowest YPA against their starting corners last year, in this case Smoot/Springs, who according to the article only allowed 5.9 Yards Per Attempt. Ironically our good friends over in Denver (Bailey/Bly) had the 8th highest yards per attempt at 8.4 YPA. In fact read for yourselves The worst Champ Bailey/Dre' Bly: The buzz going into the 2007 season was that Bailey and Bly might be the best starting battery around, but it didn't turn out anywhere near that way. A lot of this poor performance was on Bly's shoulders, as evidenced by his 8.8 YPA, but Bailey has to take some of blame as well. His 7.8 YPA was his worst since 2005. Both will have to improve if Denver's defense is going to see a turnaround in 2008. __________________ "What does a new president mean for the space program? Miles O'Brien explains, next." - Wolf Blitzer (Please tell me that I'm not the only one that see's the irony in this quote) Last edited by Dirtbag359; 06-07-2008 at 10:51 PM.

06-08-2008, 12:16 AM	#20 (permalink)
Paintrain The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Posts: 1,871	Re: How do you feel about Shawn Springs? Springs is good, not great. In a division with CB such as Newman, Samuel and if he stays clean, Pac Man, we are lagging in what some other teams have to offer. If (big if) he stays healthy for 16 games then he's in the top 15 in the league.. __________________ Jason Campbell 8/7/08-"I'm just going to go out and have a Pro Bowl-type season and let everything ride." I love it!

06-08-2008, 02:41 AM	#27 (permalink)
The Goat Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 385	Re: How do you feel about Shawn Springs? Since we're off the topic of Springs absence anyway - what is the consensus on Leigh Torrence? I keep expecting him to jump in and make some noise because GW called him the quickest/fastest guy on the team at one point. W/ big-time speed, avg speed, and some extra coaching shouldn't this kid be in the mix on some cover packages? __________________ "Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism... at least it's an ethos."

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How do you feel about Shawn Springs?

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